Jump to content
3DCoat Forums

Interface discussion


polyxo
 Share

Recommended Posts

2. distance between icon is too big? Which icons?

I think he's referring to the tool icons at the bottom.

Maybe it's just my workflow, but I don't understand why you need fast access to the "blobs". I almost never touch them aside from turning them on and off and that only happens maybe once during a session, sometimes not at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Maybe it's just my workflow, but I don't understand why you need fast access to the "blobs". I almost never touch them aside from turning them on and off and that only happens maybe once during a session, sometimes not at all.

the tools icon at the bottom, shouldn't be a problem they should morph to accommodate in a 4:3 ratio monitor. You could squeeze it to just one column of icons and dock that left side(if Andrew allows it) or keep it where it is. The spacing between the icons are intentional, trying to give them some room to breath.

Well "fast "is relative :) but putting them on top is not a good idea and their size being a issue for me. If you could make their size abit bigger that might work, but accessing things on top is furthe away then things on the right side(i'm right handed), if the blobs were separate panel you can dock them anywhere(a very good thing), you can dock them on the right, or bottom right,etc. then access won't be a problem, people can place them wherever they want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I'm going to start on a slightly different GUI(i think more people might like it) since it has the default tools on the left. Anyway here is a small Layer enchancement it's a channel indicator,which tells you that you have painted data into specific channel. In this case , you have painted color, spec, depth.

If you created a new layer and and started to paint color, the color indicator will show up in that layer(but depth,spec wont). Currently they are only for displaying channels, but it would be nice if you could click on the indicator and quickly erase data in specific channels, using the delete key. If that was the case, i would have to make those icons abit bigger, so there easier to click.

edit: i also had to move the "layer 0" text to the left for 2 reason; to make room for the channel indicator and to confirm to PhotoShop standard.

post-564-1240263939_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to start on a slightly different GUI(i think more people might like it) since it has the default tools on the left. Anyway here is a small Layer enchancement it's a channel indicator,which tells you that you have painted data into specific channel. In this case , you have painted color, spec, depth.

If you created a new layer and and started to paint color, the color indicator will show up in that layer(but depth,spec wont). Currently they are only for displaying channels, but it would be nice if you could click on the indicator and quickly erase data in specific channels, using the delete key. If that was the case, i would have to make those icons abit bigger, so there easier to click.

Now that I like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
I didn't know Andrew was so sprung on green, hmm while green or any color is okie bright colors really stick out like a sour thumb(i.e. its distracting) with a dark style/theme.I think a more tone down color would work better.

Agree! No green please.. red or orange is very nice

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Now that I like.

Thanks! :) i hope Andrew implements it..i can see it being useful when you have alot of layers.

Agree! No green please.. red or orange is very nice

Welcome my fellow Modonite :D Well green,red,orange,etc isn't a issue..having bright highly contrast tones where. I did tone down the green used in the GUI and it doesn't stick out as much as it used to. I'll create a new GUI that mimic Modo soon.

The biggest complaint i here from people about 3DC, is that the GUI looks awful like programmer art. So now is the time to re-think the GUI to something more mainstream. Here is the current mock up with some needed enhancement.

1. Added text under tools icon.

- This is important because icons alone aren't enough to convey the tools function, specifically the Freeze surface tool, hide surface tool and a few other. Adding text under them make its easy for a person associate those tools with a function.

2. channel indicator in Layers

3. eye icon (hey its important and i just added it :P )

4. changed "Property" tab to "Tool Options" tab.

edit: "enchance" should be "enhance"

post-564-1240273540_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
All things considered, Andrew, you should probably consult your family and associates as they will live (prosperously it is hoped) with whatever is chosen.

That is a good idea, but why not take it one step further? Considering we'll have GUI mock up by Shadow and myself and anyone else that wants to design one, why not post a poll and let people vote on which one they like best.

The poll itself should be posted on popular cg site like cgtalk and i'll definitely post in the Modo forum and NewTek forum. I'll need a few more days to do a couple more pages of the mock up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I vote for Shadows gui. The reason being that there are way more photoshop users. Don't cater to lw, max, maya users. They will use 3dc regardless of how beautiful the interface is as long as 3dc is powerful to compete with zbrush,mudbox. But by using shadows gui, which is familiar to ps users, you target many more artists who dont care about max,lw,etc because its too complicated. Many 2d artist would like to try 3d for illustration and stills but they say its too complicated to learn.

monitors especially wide aspect imho can better be utilized by putting the tools on the sides leaving a big workspace in the center.The blender gui and other mockups I see have wasted tool space at the bottom. It looks cramped and obtrusive. Unless it was a graph,trackview no problem. But putting so many icons at the bottom of the screen is a waste of workspace.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

geo_n,

heh hold on i haven't finish my second GUI mock up yet, so the voting shouldn't start yet :P I did try to use CS4 extended for texturing/3D work but it was frustration...IMO its GUI wasnt built for 3D work in mind.

anyway, give me a few hours to work and post the new GUI mock-up, before making up your mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

geo_n,

heh hold on i haven't finish my second GUI mock up yet, so the voting shouldn't start yet :P I did try to use CS4 extended for texturing/3D work but it was frustration...IMO its GUI wasnt built for 3D work in mind.

anyway, give me a few hours to work and post the new GUI mock-up, before making up your mind.

Cool! Can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
Cool! Can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve.

Took me longer then expected, but it turns out i like this layout more then the first mock up. I'll gonna focus on this layout going forward!

1. Blobs/channel are on right side, easier to access then current 3DC GUI(since you don't have to mouse over.)

2. Switching mode is still done thru the tabs on top left. Current in Direct Paint mode.

3. Tools and Tools Options are on left side(more logical layout then before)

- Tools and Tool Options are tie to which mode your in. example DP tools in Direct Paint mode, Topology Tool in Retopology mode,etc. Allows for room to add more tools in the future.

- Tools and Tool Options are also tie to which tool is clicked on, in this case the brush setting icon, you access to all the e-panel options. Allows for room to add more tools options in the future.

- If tools have no option, Tool Options tab will turn blank.

4. Design for 4:3 ratio or 16:9 ratio monitor.

5. No horizontal bars, looks like a more mainstream/professional application.

I forgot to add one tool, but i'll add it tomorrow and make GUI mock up for Voxel Sculpt, Mesh Sculpt, Retopology, UV mode(s). Any concerns or question about the mock up?

post-564-1240290926_thumb.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

made some adjustments (hope you don't mind, SonK).

also, if 3dc is going to be used for professional work, I'm still of the opinion that there needs

to be a way to bring in multiple reference images that can be assigned to any/all camera views so

reasonably accurate sculpting can be done.

this would require some interface to allow the assigning of images to each camera view, but perhaps

it can go on a 'camera' panel, and not be assigned to a 'room' (i.e., voxel, retopo, etc.)

post-475-1240292387_thumb.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

Does anyone here use Zbrush?

Why don't you look at the http://www.web3dnews.org/reviews/zbrush1/img3/zbrush-UI.jpg

The top sliders can't be grouped together. Or simply put two or three on top aligned, then next column with two or three sliders aligned.

Make use of TABS, it allows a straight forward navigation. If I just want to focus on UV tab, I press UV Tab and on the right all the UV functions pops up on the right OR left. The stacks are movable / customizable.

Be it able to CREATE MY OWN STACK with functions that I use most. For example, I have an empty stack in Zbrush, all I need to do is simply drag the brushes or any other tools that I use most in my daily job and have my own Stack with my favorite tool set. That is powerful and allows speed workflow.

Just look at the Zbrush interface. People claim that Zbrush is hard to learn because of its UI. I call these people brainless. Zbrush is not hard to learn and is really very flexible in millions of ways. Now, I am no fan of Zbrush or any other tool in the market. I don't either love it or hate it. However, Zbrush allows me to be productive in short time due to the UI customization a la CGicore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Does anyone here use Zbrush?

Why don't you look at the http://www.web3dnews.org/reviews/zbrush1/img3/zbrush-UI.jpg

The top sliders can't be grouped together. Or simply put two or three on top aligned, then next column with two or three sliders aligned.

Make use of TABS, it allows a straight forward navigation. If I just want to focus on UV tab, I press UV Tab and on the right all the UV functions pops up on the right OR left. The stacks are movable / customizable.

Be it able to CREATE MY OWN STACK with functions that I use most. For example, I have an empty stack in Zbrush, all I need to do is simply drag the brushes or any other tools that I use most in my daily job and have my own Stack with my favorite tool set. That is powerful and allows speed workflow.

Just look at the Zbrush interface. People claim that Zbrush is hard to learn because of its UI. I call these people brainless. Zbrush is not hard to learn and is really very flexible in millions of ways. Now, I am no fan of Zbrush or any other tool in the market. I don't either love it or hate it. However, Zbrush allows me to be productive in short time due to the UI customization a la CGicore.

Zbrush may not be hard to learn, but it's hard to retain the information without using it daily. Yes, the interface of Zbrush is annoying. After using it for years, I've finally rid myself of the need to use it, thanks to 3DCoat. So brainless you might think, but it's a personal preference. Yours is Zbrush. Mine is 3DCoat.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member
made some adjustments (hope you don't mind, SonK).

also, if 3dc is going to be used for professional work, I'm still of the opinion that there needs

to be a way to bring in multiple reference images that can be assigned to any/all camera views so

reasonably accurate sculpting can be done.

this would require some interface to allow the assigning of images to each camera view, but perhaps

it can go on a 'camera' panel, and not be assigned to a 'room' (i.e., voxel, retopo, etc.)

I don't mind (in fact i want to you tear my GUI apart), i hope you don't mind me giving some C&C on your modify version(and it does give me some more ideas on how to improve the mock up even more) so thanks for that!

Yeah if your doing any kind of production be it film or game you probably get a character sheet that has at least 2 views(front, side). I'm not sure how to implement this into the GUI. if you have any specific idea i'd love to hear them. It should be simple and straight forward though.

1. Tool Tips - Personally i want an option to turn off tool tips since i rarely use them(they just get in the way). But for people who tool tip which general take up a fair amount of space, having them at the bottom horizontally would be more effective, then having them in the tool options tab. Also considering that the tool option tab is needed for many tools, it needs all the space it can get. Lastly most mainstream apps have their tool tip at the bottom, running horizontally. Those are the reason why i think having them at the bottom makes more sense. But having tool tips at the bottom isn't enough, the current implementation are way too long so they take up too much GUI space. Tip tools need to be re-written to be more specific and shorter, i.e. LBM = split , MMB = connect, RMB = bridge, Shift + LMB = make coffee,etc you get the idea.

2. Render tab - So you just want global render settings? the tabs on top are actually used for switching to different modes, so adding it there won't make sense, but i'll add it somewhere else for you in the new mock-up tomorrow. What kind of setting do you want to expose/see ? What about a 2D paint tab, where it changes the 3D viewport to a 2D view just for painting, you'll still be able to open a floating 2D editor like the current implementation.

3. Camera settings - moving them up there could work, if you had more space between top and bottom , same thing with the navigation icons. But i like the down arrow icon for the camera settings it would make it clear that its a pop-down menu. However they should be in one bubble. The reason i added the camera setting into the 3D viewport is because some application do that also, and the top area is being reserved for future tabs(switching modes) and other special features ;)

4. Navigation icons - Same reasoning behind this as the camera ssetting.

Lastly do you think i should get rid of the space thats between the panels(i.e. specular and depth)?

Zbrush may not be hard to learn, but it's hard to retain the information without using it daily. Yes, the interface of Zbrush is annoying. After using it for years, I've finally rid myself of the need to use it, thanks to 3DCoat. So brainless you might think, but it's a personal preference. Yours is Zbrush. Mine is 3DCoat.

That's how i feel about Zbrush, i think you hit the nail right on the head! Even the navigation in Zbrush is tough to retain.The new 3DC GUI should be simple not complex like Zbrush/Blender , so people won't have to re-learn the workflow after coming back from vacation.

Does anyone here use Zbrush?

Why don't you look at the http://www.web3dnews.org/reviews/zbrush1/img3/zbrush-UI.jpg

The top sliders can't be grouped together. Or simply put two or three on top aligned, then next column with two or three sliders aligned.

Make use of TABS, it allows a straight forward navigation. If I just want to focus on UV tab, I press UV Tab and on the right all the UV functions pops up on the right OR left. The stacks are movable / customizable.

Be it able to CREATE MY OWN STACK with functions that I use most. For example, I have an empty stack in Zbrush, all I need to do is simply drag the brushes or any other tools that I use most in my daily job and have my own Stack with my favorite tool set. That is powerful and allows speed workflow.

Just look at the Zbrush interface. People claim that Zbrush is hard to learn because of its UI. I call these people brainless. Zbrush is not hard to learn and is really very flexible in millions of ways. Now, I am no fan of Zbrush or any other tool in the market. I don't either love it or hate it. However, Zbrush allows me to be productive in short time due to the UI customization a la CGicore.

Thanks for posting! welcome to the forum my fellow Modonite(Modo user)!

So that's your customized Zbrush GUI? Don't take this personally but it looks very scary and complex. :P Stacking 3DC slider would be a bad idea because it would make the width of that area much bigger than it needs to be, IMO if anything the sliders are too close too each other and could be shortier in length to help differentiate specular,depth,color,etc. Docking is a feature in 3.0 so it will improve customization/organization.

I'm one of those brainless people who just don't get Zbrush GUI,workflow,navigations. The goal for my GUI mock-up is to keep the interface simple, icon's shouldn't be too big or too small, mainstream look and feel(Zbrush/blender is the exact opposite of my GUI philosophy). So any suggestion on this would be great.

edit: looking at the Zbrush GUI again, i noticed something i didn't like....alot of the GUI elements "pop" out alot, IMHO a good GUI should be more flat looking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi guys.

I like the design of SonK, it's interesting and nice. One more option. But I still like the gui of -shadow-, too.

One point: Please place the tool tips on one fixed place, like a line on the bottom of the mainscreen, like it is now in 3DC. It is better to have a fixed place, where tooltips appear. And a bottom line have enugh room for more text. I like to read a short instruction for a active tool "on the fly", with no need to open the main instructions.

Be creative

Chris

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member
Thanks for posting! welcome to the forum my fellow Modonite(Modo user)!

So that's your customized Zbrush GUI? Don't take this personally but it looks very scary and complex. :P Stacking 3DC slider would be a bad idea because it would make the width of that area much bigger than it needs to be, IMO if anything the sliders are too close too each other and could be shortier in length to help differentiate specular,depth,color,etc. Docking is a feature in 3.0 so it will improve customization/organization.

I'm one of those brainless people who just don't get Zbrush GUI,workflow,navigations. The goal for my GUI mock-up is to keep the interface simple, icon's shouldn't be too big or too small, mainstream look and feel(Zbrush/blender is the exact opposite of my GUI philosophy). So any suggestion on this would be great.

edit: looking at the Zbrush GUI again, i noticed something i didn't like....alot of the GUI elements "pop" out alot, IMHO a good GUI should be more flat looking.

Hehe Sonk, sorry man, didn't mean to call you or anyone brainless honest word. Maybe I haven't explained well with my Zbrush concept approach. What I was trying to say, there are features that Zbrush does it very well and we could use those concepts and apply it in 3DC. Not to be afraid to copy or the need to re-invent the wheel again. If a particular function / UI part/section worked with Zbrush (or any other app), then why not apply it in 3DC. By no means, I was trying to say to copy the whole Zbrush UI , of course not.

Sonk, you UI is like modo UI and that is a brilliant idea. That's one of the reasons why modo has a great success due to its easy access UI and organization. Keep the good work guys.

Hi guys.

I like the design of SonK, it's interesting and nice. One more option. But I still like the gui of -shadow-, too.

One point: Please place the tool tips on one fixed place, like a line on the bottom of the mainscreen, like it is now in 3DC. It is better to have a fixed place, where tooltips appear. And a bottom line have enugh room for more text. I like to read a short instruction for a active tool "on the fly", with no need to open the main instructions.

Be creative

Chris

Again, we could have a pretty simple function, like in Zbrush (yes again), that when you rollover an option/function and press CTRL key, it pops a semi-transparent rectangular with a simple / short explanation of that tool and its functionality. That can improve usability and for the user to easily learn the app as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member

hmmm...... Zbrush 4 has been announced...

Release in August 2009, but as Pix never delivers on time, I'm sure 3DC still have time to get more customers.

Be fast guys with the new UI and the 3DC v.3 release. Competition is getting tighter, which is a good sign in a way ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

This thread has been really busy since I last looked! I really like SonK's latest prototype - the 4:3 issue did concern me before but that's gone away and I agree with the way it's going :lol:

One thing that I'd hope people could address now is that old slider toolbar at the top. We currently have: depth, smoothing, colour and spec all handled by the controls on the right - it seems wasteful to have them duplicated at the top, but as a limited subset (I had no idea we had specular opacity until very recently).

IMO (I don't have time to mock this up right now unfortunately) - finishing off the job would be to take the remaining soft-stroke, radius and falloff options and combining them into a similar looking "brush" panel.

Also: *perhaps* roll in the icons from the old "Brush Setting" e-panel popup, and then removing that top toolbar and brush settings icon completely. This would unify a bunch of stuff and maximize the area for docked panels.

EDIT: Also a '2D Paint' tab is something I've been hoping for for a while http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1916

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's funny how far this discussion of interface designs is going while Andrew has been quietly working. Who knows, he may be nearly finished with something completely different.

Anyway, SonK: Very nice! I like the idea of a render tab. Back when rendering was first created I asked for a way to keep the render settings open while you did test renders. It felt very annoying to have to keep opening the panel again after each test.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor
That is a good idea, but why not take it one step further? Considering we'll have GUI mock up by Shadow and myself and anyone else that wants to design one, why not post a poll and let people vote on which one they like best.

The poll itself should be posted on popular cg site like cgtalk and i'll definitely post in the Modo forum and NewTek forum. I'll need a few more days to do a couple more pages of the mock up.

I like Shadow's UI since it is so Photoshop-familiar...and that will probably be the one thing that compels prospective buyers to choose 3DC more than anything.

Having said that, I think it could be a powerful selling point if you can supply preset workspace configurations that mimic (as close as possible) other programs.

Having the standard being Shadow's Photoshop style (familiar to all users)...but having one that is laid out similar to Mudbox, one to Modo, and if possible, ZBrush.

Preset configurations (like the Mudbox preset having familiar shortcut key/naviagation commands) would further make 3DC standout from the competition by a wide margin, IMHO. Currently, the others have their own proprietary layouts, with no such concern for easing the transition from another program. Vue Infinite does this with regard to some keystroke/navigation presets for users of Max, Maya, XSI, etc.

So, Andrew, perhaps you could work something out with your more experienced users, with experience in the other sculpting applications, to where they configure a beta version (with the new UI scheme) to match those applications (including remapping shortcut commands), save it, and send it to you...it would save you from having to do it personally.

2 other suggestions are:

1) Commission one of your most experienced 3DC users to create a comprehensive "Introduction to 3DC v3" DVD/Download (english and perhaps translated later in other languages), available only for registered users. This would make it as easy as possible for customers to get up and running as fast as possible, and provide you with a very valuable selling tool...ie, "Buy 3DC and receive the training DVD 'Intro to 3DC' for free"

2) Since 3DC is currently THE ONLY sculpting application with support for 3D Connexion devices (Space Pilot/Navigator), what better way to sell that point to prospective customers than to collaborate with 3Dconnexion about offering a bundle with their devices...maybe you can get them to work with you on a promotion, available for purchase from your site once v3 is rolled out.

I would even ask them about helping you advertise the promotion (CGSociety, 3DWorld,etc)...a ZBrush killer WITH A SPACE EXPLORER for about $400 USD (still $200+ less than Zbrush and Mudbox). I think it would also be more enticing for current ZBrush, Mudbox and Modo users to add 3DC to their pipeline, seeing that they can also use the 3DConnexion device with their Major 3D applications ...3ds Max, Maya, XSI, C4D.

If you can get the folks at 3DConnexion onboard with you in this, you could stand to gain $50 or more profit per bundle...and yet it would still be a major price break for the customer. The device is $299 retail, but is sold for half price at education resellers...surely they can make it available to you for the EDU price.

https://3dconnexionstore.com/itemDetail.asp?itmNo=76826423N

Academic Reseller:

http://www.studica.com/products/product_de...productid=52865

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Reputable Contributor
yeah Zbrush/Blender interface are much better than mudbox which is too simplistic and not enough synergy.

Mudbox currently has the best UI of the group. That's the big draw for it, compared to ZBrush. It's so much more comfortable and easier to get into.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...