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polyxo
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Editors/Toolbars logical Cleanup:

Example Layers: Input regarding these can be made at many different places in the program...

- In Layer Main Menu Pulldown

- Inside Layer Editor (Toolbar, ContextMenu and 3 even differently looking pulldown Menus)

Some of these entries appear redundantly in Layers Menu and Layers Editor, some have unique locations.

Some elements appear like 1:1 copies of Photoshop, others clearly differ.

The Main Toolbar mingles together:

-"Create" new Geometry" Workmodes

-"Modify Existing Geometry"- tools (also partly covered in Layers)

- "Modification of existing Colours" (also partly covered in Layers)

-"Visibility" - tools (also partly covered in Layers)

and many many things more...

Strokes, which only give a shape to several different workmodes are stored inside the same toolbar as workmodes.

Strokes parameters again are also partly covered in pens/strips. I have a hard time with the underlying logic and tend

to forget things I already knew.

There's been a lot of discussion about Icons or Text Buttons.

I personally prefer programs for intuition driven workflows such as Subd-Modeling or sculpting which by consistant underlying

logic let me rather hotkeys than buttons. Therefor I'd wish for:

- Sticky Keys (Quick switching to another tool while pressing and holding a hotkey, switch back at release)

- Context Sensitive Keyboard Shortcuts (the same hotkey means something else in another operation)

- Option to Map each and any Function to User-Definable keys and mouse-button (including Camera Navigation)

When buttons are inevitable they all should show their On/Off state unless they are one-shot actions (Add new layer)

It would be great when Users could define whether toolbars show Text, Icons, Text+Icons. Also custom (popup) toolbars could make sense.

Editors optical/functional Cleanup:

- Make all Editors dockable and resizable in way that they align nicely

- Improvements on Touch and Feel. While you probably don't want to switch to standard Windows elements - I find those easier to handle than those found in 3DCoat

- We need more indicators on what state is presently active as we currently have. Is parallel projection switched on? The button doesn't tell - it always looks the same.

In all situations we need distinct divisions between:

- Selection Methods

- Editing Tools

- Brush Setup

- per Layer Editing processes (e.g. Desaturate whole layer)

- user defined regional input (e.g. Desaturate per brush)

Viewports

Fullscreen-Toggle-Option

Proper Dual Viewport support (e.g. move 2D Editor over to second screen and maximize)

Quad View Option (maximize current view with hotkey á la Maya/Silo)

Holger

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I like the basic layout of the interface....I get a nice circular motion in the workflow. But the one thing about the interface that will make a great selling point, as it already does, is the narrative description of what everything does as you work. That's just cool and makes learning 3dC so very easy.

Keep up the good work!!!!

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I don't like the little arrow button on the side of example camera button. It looks like a separate button and acts like one but do the same thing as the actual camera button.

I suggest that you combine them into one button with an arrow to show that it's a drop down menu under the button. This would go for every button like this in 3DCoat.

Here's an example pic.

post-464-1223320060_thumb.png

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- Context Sensitive Keyboard Shortcuts (the same hotkey means something else in another operation)

I second that one, 3DC is able to do many different task (sculpting, retopologizing, painting)

So it will be really appreciated if you can have the same hotkey who does 3 differents task depending on each mode.

Because without that it can be really tricky to find the appropriate hotkey layout.

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I second that one, 3DC is able to do many different task (sculpting, retopologizing, painting)

So it will be really appreciated if you can have the same hotkey who does 3 differents task depending on each mode.

Because without that it can be really tricky to find the appropriate hotkey layout.

I third it =] Agree with most of polyxo's requests in fact.

More focus on fewer, reusable keybindings and modifier keys as well as the input device buttons. 2 ways you can go about this are the closed way where you map everything internally the way NEX does it with its modeling tools. Multiple functions bound into one tool that are triggered by various combinations of modifier key and mouse input. This is awesome when you learn them all and keeps focus very tight and within a small amount of bindings overall. I would be very happy to see retopology go this route, so that it is reduced to a couple of powerful tools that can be activated with a keybind or two and then largely controlled by modifier keys and the input device. Other way is to open it up and let the users customize not just keybinds but mouse/tablet bindings as well, like Silo. I enjoy using Silo much more simply because it doesn't need to be nestled within a big bloated host app like maya. With its mouse configs I can build a custom workflow that comes very close to how I work in NEX without having to filter out all the maya fluff. I would probably vote for the second way. Open up the bindings to the users and let us hash out some good configs that you can then include with the software. Save yourself some work. Having a few major modes of operation as mentioned previously so that we can store contextual keybinds etc would be good. Then we can separate and reuse important binds for major tasks like retopology or painting/sculpting. These are different enough tasks that they can logically be separated. I'm not sure I'd want painting to be separated from sculpting as a separate mode... since 3dcoat can do both simultaneously. Seems it would be better to keep them together as far as task grouping goes. Though I admit I usually turn off color and spec input when sculpting... I need more experience with the software to figure this one out for myself.

Graphically I'm not a big fan of a lot of buttons, menus or tabs that cause me to constantly break focus on the viewport. First thing I do with any software is learn how to avoid doing this. If I can't escape it then I ditch the software. I list modo in this category as I find it visually way too bloated and dependent on input sliders, menus, buttons and tabs for accessing tools or switching tasks. It's frustrating and customizing it takes way too much effort. Looks pretty though. The only reason I keep it installed is because it can paint on low resolution meshes for games (for basic seam coverage) - something I'm still waiting for 3dcoat to be able to do. =]

With a system like this combined with a GUI to satisfy other users you should be able to provide the best of both worlds. Some people like to click buttons and stuff to feel like they are getting stuff done. Some prefer to not lose focus on the subject matter and ignore GUI as much as possible. So long as we are free to choose and one doesn't impede the other everyone should be happy. This is where Silo really shines. You can completely re-skin the way it looks and behaves if you want, and you can also map almost any command in the program to your mouse or keyboard the way you want.

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I don't like the little arrow button on the side of example camera button. It looks like a separate button and acts like one but do the same thing as the actual camera button.

I suggest that you combine them into one button with an arrow to show that it's a drop down menu under the button. This would go for every button like this in 3DCoat.

Here's an example pic.

Quoted for agreement.

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Feature request: Save and load view-setups

I would like to save my own view setups. Then it should be possible to see the saved views in a menu and activate/deactivate them.

The reason is, that I need different popup-window-groups in different situations.

Hope you know what I mean?

Regards

Chris

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What abou some kind of Ribbon-like interface - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_(computing) ?

Lot of people don't like it at the beginning, but they love it when they get used to it.

The main point is quite easy - to show only that options that are available (and reasonable, of course) at the moment.

Now (especially within voxel sculpting development) is UI often quite confusing a lot of commands are obsolote ore useless, but it's not really important.

What important really is is that the "big cleaning of interface" needs a lot of planning, thinking and testing (best possibility is to find someone who is really educated in ergonomy, I had just three lessons of ergonomy at school, but I really understand it's importance).

When UI wasn't done as the first thing (as developers of Silo and Modo did), it should be done at the end, when all possible functions will be known.

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I have a question for the users of 3D Coat around :

What is your usual workflow ?

1) Sculpt, then detail, then paint (color, etc.)

2) Sculpt and paint at the same time

3) Neither of those (please explain)

I'm asking this because we had a discussion about this with Andrew, and he told me a lot of people do this (sculpt and paint at the same time, wich I think is odd). My experience always told me to sculpt, then detail, then paint... but maybe I'm wrong. Please post your workflows because depending on them we will decide about some UI placements.

Thanks,

A.

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I have a question for the users of 3D Coat around :

What is your usual workflow ?

1) Sculpt, then detail, then paint (color, etc )

I'm asking this because we had a discussion about this with Andrew, and he told me a lot of people do this (sculpt and paint at the same time, wich I think is odd). My experience always told me to sculpt, then detail, then paint... but maybe I'm wrong.

Yes this is how I normally work too, unless I was using a material that pretty much requires you to do paint and bump at the same time.

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I like to be able to do whatever I want, whenever I want :D

I usually rough out a form and color at the same time because it helps me visualize the model as a whole. the more I can experiment as I go the better.

this is going to be especially important with voxel sculpting because you may start on a model and nearly "finish" one area and detail it out, and then decide you want to add a few more arms or a tail or whatever.

I think voxel sculpting is going to need some sort of vertex paint, or polypaint like zbrush, so that we can lay down some color while we sculpt since we won't be able to have uvs. then when you convert to a mesh to finish it up, at least you would have a good starting point for your color.

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@Nathan,

I think maybe you didn't get what I meant, I wasn't very clear, when I say "at the same time" I willing to say that while you sculpt you are adding color at the same time...

Of course any model need to be painted and then re-sculpted if needed, that is not the question I'm laying here.

I'm asking how many of you people sculpt painting at the same time.

Thanks,

A.

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I usually sculpt then to texture painting, never at the same time. While its cool to be able to do both at the same time, IMO it not practical for a real project 90% of time.

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1)

Drag and Drop GUI elements.

2)

Text

Icon Only

Text and Icon

3)

Customizable Presets that can be saved in example XML formats to share with community. Silo, Modo and C4D are the leaders in GUI configuration.

With all of them giving me an acceptable level of control, with possibly Modo as not quite as evolved yet. GUI Color and Keyboard configuration is already really good

and i already work with a nice dark blue GUI, i just wish to customize the position and placing of toolbars and tools.

4)

As above Expert Mode, which would allow uncluttered viewport and hide all toolbars unless i explicitly tell it not too.

5)

MultiMonitor support, on occasions i like to have a certain tool like color palette on a 2nd monitor.

I guess the idea is the power needs to be given to the user for controlling their interface, as everyone wants a different thing.

But this would also allow an exchange of UI's between users to find a nice setup for all.

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I'm not too crazy about the yellow but otherwise I think that looks nice. I might replace the yellow with a mid-toned blue, something like the current Photoshop logo / icon. I actually use the "light" version of the GUI, but if I did use "dark", then I would be happy to use yours.

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Ok people, time for some news now,

1) There will be dockable panels to the left, right and bottom. These panels can be drag & dropped also outside window (dual screen arrangements). They also can be stacked side by side once docked or on top of each other.

2) Colors can be custom, but default skin will be dark grey (not the actual one), as we all know neutral grey is better suited for artistic work like sculpting, 3D, color correction, compositing.

3) GUI will be mainly Text, BUT there will be a nice surprise for icon lovers, a quick access menu to tools that will be icon or text (you can chose both if you want too). As also icons for some things even if you go the text only thing.

4) Each stackable panel can be collapsed (even if it's docked) to save space, and uncollapsed again if you need it.

5) Able to save different layouts for different modes of work : painting, sculpting, etc.

6) Tools beeing re organized, there will some major tools that will in the future include others.

7) A unique and centralized brush editor that will be universal for painting, sculpt, etc. (to change shape, size, and all the brush/pen parameters).

8) New panels for colors, textures, alphas, etc eating less space and better organised.

9) New layer panel way improved.

10) Quick panels access with shortcuts (don't know how to explain this better than this, you will get it later when you get to see it).

11) more to come... and maybe one screen shot or two if you people are nice ;-)

Take care,

Hard working on this, and Andrew is working like mad on the new features comming as optimizing the beast.

A.

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I much prefer the Dark. I currently revert to VeryDark.Options.xml everytime I install 3dcoat. On prolonged sessions of 3d I find the dark settings easier on the eyes.

3dcoat_dark.jpg

Great job on the new UI Arkanis, really looking forward to seeing it. cheers

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