Interface discussion

[SonK]

For my own amusement, I've made a mock up of three dockable windows for depth, colour and specular. I think this UI will be incredibly flexible if you can drop these panels on top of each other to make your own tab groups - as in modern versions of Photoshop. I'm very excited about the amount of polish that will be applied!

(btw. I missed out the depth "lock" feature , I couldn't really fit it well and didn't understand the feature well enough to place it nicely somewhere else)

As for the quick access buttons, I would do something like this:

Just shrink the icons and arrange them in a row.

I'm doing a mock up now to help Andrew out, but whats the paint brush icon in each channel use for? I think along with the new GUI new icons should be made for the current tools later on. Also IMO the hint area is taking up way too much space, my idea that i'm working on is to put all the tools and channel/blob on the bottom like Mudbox. This gives you a wide workspace. Hints can be display near the top, but i would love a option to turn them off either way(since i rarely use them).

edit: okie now i know what brush icon is use for.

Oh right, OK that makes sense. As for the colors, I was being careful with what I said there. I know Andrew likes that green and I also didn't want to suggest taking away something that is unique about 3DC.

I didn't know Andrew was so sprung on green, hmm while green or any color is okie bright colors really stick out like a sour thumb(i.e. its distracting) with a dark style/theme.I think a more tone down color would work better.

[Javis]

Oh right, OK that makes sense. As for the colors, I was being careful with what I said there. I know Andrew likes that green and I also didn't want to suggest taking away something that is unique about 3DC.

Yeah, I hear you there. I do love the green myself, but I know a lot of people think it's an odd color for interfaces. Most people seem to go for the orange/grey look.

As it stand now, the themes in 3DCoat are also customizable. So I wouldn't mind if Andrew stuck with the green!

[SonK]

Andrew,

Here is my mock up..lol only took me 6 hours in photoshop This is how i would like to see 3DC GUI.

If you click on the brush settting icon in the "Tools" tab, it will switch to e-panel tools. Once you make a selection, say stamp mode it'll switch back to normal "Tools" bar. Maybe theres a better way to do implement the e-panel into my mock up? You can still use the hotkey "e" to bring it up.

switching to different mode is pretty straight forward, just click on the different tabs to switch. for example VS click on VS tools.

[lc8b105]

ndrew,

Here is my mock up..lol only took me 6 hours in photoshop This is how i would like to see 3DC GUI.

If you click on the brush settting icon in the "Tools" tab, it will switch to e-panel tools. Once you make a selecting, say stamp mode it'll switch back to normal "Tools" bar. Maybe theres a better way to do implement the e-panel into my mock up?

Nice mock up. But that's too Mudbox-style.

[SonK]

Nice mock up. But that's too Mudbox-style.

Its still 3D-Coat at its core(not a lightwave joke) and the green icons are still there :P

Your lucky i didn't mimick Zbrush/blender style lol...(awful GUI).

It only looks like Mudbox because i have the tools running horizontally but aside from what the similarity starts to vanish. IMO a horizontal tools tab would work better then a vertical one, it allows for more room for tools.

[3DArtist]

Hopefully 3DC interface will be customizable enough to mimic (insert favorite app here). Having a interface\keyboard theme for mudbox, zbrush, photoshop, etc. users would be nice as it would allow users from those apps to jump in and use 3DC more efficiently. And maybe allow 3DC to more easily fit into a pipeline. Just some thoughts.

btw, I like the mock up SonK.

[philnolan3d]

I like the idea of putting the toolbar along the lower right, horizontally. It's more convenient for grabbing tools quickly, at least for right handed folks like myself.

[PalSan]

SonK very nice!!!

[Javis]

I quite like that.

Andrew,

Here is my mock up..lol only took me 6 hours in photoshop This is how i would like to see 3DC GUI.

If you click on the brush settting icon in the "Tools" tab, it will switch to e-panel tools. Once you make a selecting, say stamp mode it'll switch back to normal "Tools" bar. Maybe theres a better way to do implement the e-panel into my mock up? You can still use the hotkey "e" to bring it up.

switching to different mode is pretty straight forward, just click on the different tabs to switch. for example VS click on VS tools.

[SonK]

I quite like that.

Thanks everyone, feel free to tear that GUI apart! Thanks to shadow for the color picker design, David for the channel mockup and wailingmonkey for the channel icons.

I initial thought changing between different modes(VS, DP,Sculpt mode,UV,etc) by clicking on the tabs in the bottom was a good idea,but now i'm not so sure..does anyone see any short comings with that method? I mean i could add icons somewhere to switch to different modes...then the bottom dock would only have the tools tab related to that mode( i.e. Voxel Sculpting would have only VS Tools, and select/move tools).

Ideally the "select/move tools" are universal you can use them regardless of what mode your in. So if your in VS and you want to move,scale,rotate something you can click on the "select/move tools" to access those tools.

Or would it be best to remove that them in favor of having select,move,scale,rotate in each the different tools tab? To me having them in one places(its own tab) makes more sense.

[philnolan3d]

I don't think there's a problem with your method of switching modes, as long as the tools change it seems fine to me. The only one issue is that once you switch to VS, the VS tools don't have icons currently, so unless someone makes some they won't fit nicely into the tool area that you made.

[SonK]

I don't think there's a problem with your method of switching modes, as long as the tools change it seems fine to me. The only one issue is that once you switch to VS, the VS tools don't have icons currently, so unless someone makes some they won't fit nicely into the tool area that you made.

Yeah i'll make some icons for them tomorrow. If anyone wants to help make some also that would be great! i'm gonna draw inspiration from Mudbox,Modo. Creating icons are going to be a challenge, but not everything has to have icons , perhaps the UV tools can be text or text with smaller icon next to them.

Also how does one address the lack of space of the toolbar at the bottom? One idea is to have a "property" tab when you click on a mode and it has many tools, those tools can reside in the property tab(which can be place on the right side). Another idea to do what 3DC currently does, have a pop up menu that display the tools.

[Taros]

Thx all for comments

Tools & Tools Options Bar in detail...

-> Link: http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?s=&...ost&p=16611

the rest tools still in the WIP...

Nice designs, but what about the idea of -Shadow-? Everyone likes the work. I guess, it should not be ignored.

Regards

Chris

[kay_Eva]

Nice mock up. But that's too Mudbox-style.

yeah Zbrush/Blender interface are much better than mudbox which is too simplistic and not enough synergy. Big ol bar at the bottom no thanks

I say go with Shadow's and if you look closely doesn't Shadow's interface look the most like Blender 2.5 ^^

[philnolan3d]

yeah Zbrush/Blender interface are much better than mudbox which is too simplistic and not enough synergy.

WHA' Huh??

[Javis]

yeah Zbrush/Blender interface are much better than mudbox which is too simplistic and not enough synergy. Big ol bar at the bottom no thanks

I say go with Shadow's and if you look closely doesn't Shadow's interface look the most like Blender 2.5 ^^

Negative ghost rider, negative!

Worst interfaces, ever!

[SonK]

Nice designs, but what about the idea of -Shadow-? Everyone likes the work. I guess, it should not be ignored.

Regards

Chris

While i do admire Shadow's GUI mock-up i wanted to go in a different direction. His mock-up is very Photoshop style(well there are others) and that would be good if 3DC was mostly a 2D application but IMO you can't just tack a 3D application onto a GUI that was design with 2D painting in mind.

yeah Zbrush/Blender interface are much better than mudbox which is too simplistic and not enough synergy. Big ol bar at the bottom no thanks

I say go with Shadow's and if you look closely doesn't Shadow's interface look the most like Blender 2.5 ^^

There is something wrong in this world when people consider "simplicity" as something bad and on the flip side they consider adding tons of tiny buttons into small space a good thing? That's like telling me to running thru a forrest full of sharp plants to enjoy it. IMO 3DC current interface is simple more simplier than Zbrush or blender i would go as far as to say its like Mudbox since both have a very low learning curve(and that's a good thing). I do not want to fight a GUI just to learn the app(Zb/blender) so that's why i added the tools horizontally and kept thing simple, but you probably can dock them on the left since all panels are dockable. Dockability is not a gimmick its great for people who have dual monitor, its great for organization. And you can still access the blobs/channel easily(which Andrew wented). Simple and streamline GUI = easier to learn.

I'll post some more GUI mock up later tonight, with changes to the way modes are switched and small enhancement here and there. Feel free to create your own GUI mock up since you don't like mines. :P

[kay_Eva]

While i do admire Shadow's GUI mock-up i wanted to go in a different direction. His mock-up is very Photoshop style(well there are others) and that would be good if 3DC was mostly a 2D application but IMO you can't just tack a 3D application onto a GUI that was design with 2D painting in mind.

There is something wrong in this world when people consider "simplicity" as something bad and on the flip side they consider adding tons of tiny buttons into small space a good thing? That's like telling me to running thru a forrest full of sharp plants to enjoy it. IMO 3DC current interface is simple more simplier than Zbrush or blender i would go as far as to say its like Mudbox since both have a very low learning curve(and that's a good thing). I do not want to fight a GUI just to learn the app(Zb/blender) so that's why i added the tools horizontally and kept thing simple, but you probably can dock them on the left since all panels are dockable. Dockability is not a gimmick its great for people who have dual monitor, its great for organization. And you can still access the blobs/channel easily(which Andrew wented). Simple and streamline GUI = easier to learn.

I'll post some more GUI mock up later tonight, with changes to the way modes are switched and small enhancement here and there. Feel free to create your own GUI mock up since you don't like mines. :P

well you know it would be simpler to use a hand that only has 2 fingers but I'm glad mine has 5. Took me a little while to get used to it though...

[SonK]

well you know it would be simpler to use a hand that only has 2 fingers but I'm glad mine has 5. Took me a little while to get used to it though...

Worse analogy ever here's why. A GUI shouldn't get in your way, it should be easy to learn and use on a everyday basis. In a way your kinda agreeing with me with your finger analogy. Having 5 fingers makes life easier/simpler as opposed to 2 finger,which in many ways is like having many small icons that pack into small space like in Zbrush/Blender, it's much harder to read(ya i don't have 20/20 vision) and can be overwhelming..it makes life harder. Lastly keep in mind that some people are more left brain and others are more right brain. So having a pure iconic base GUI isn't a totally sound idea, a balance needs to be strike by adding some text.

Why do you want a complicated GUI going forward is beyond me. 3DCoat future GUI should be keep simple and streamline for docking and speed. Instead of replying with silly analogy why don't you use that energy to do your own mock up?

For the record if 3DC 3.0 final GUI turns into ZB/blender i'm not upgrading. :P

[haikalle]

Maybe if we can add Depth, Color, Spec icons into one icon And control on/off with your LMB, MMB and RMB. And then icon

would change exam. (if Color and Spec is on then you would see sphere with color and roughness) It would save some room.

[Javis]

Maybe if we can add Depth, Color, Spec icons into one icon And control on/off with your LMB, MMB and RMB. And then icon

would change exam. (if Color and Spec is on then you would see sphere with color and roughness) It would save some room.

While that does sound like a good idea at first. It would really need to stand out which ones were activated or not. Otherwise, at a glance, it could be hard to tell.

[wailingmonkey]

I think I'd prefer sacrificing the space so I could see exactly what was

active/inactive while painting. At a certain point I'll choose minimal clicking

over being too concerned about visual clutter...

I guess a mutual solution would be to allow 'tear-off' buttons. (Even more control

to exactly what tools are visible, similar to how you can customize Zbrush's

interface by activating 'Preferences->Custom UI->Enable-Customize' and

then drag anything you want to pretty much anywhere you want it.)

[philnolan3d]

Along those "customize" lines there's also Adobe Configurator for Photoshop CS4, which lets you make a panel with whatever buttons you want on it and more. Here's a video explaining:

http://www.layersmagazine.com/photoshop-cs...nfigurator.html

[Andrew Shpagin]

I think this case is good (I mean blobs):

[lc8b105]

I think this case is good (I mean blobs):

It's OK.

[SonK]

I think this case is good (I mean blobs):

Its okie, but in my opinion accessing it on top where the icons are too small and hard to reach can be slow, plus the color and spec are too close.IMO you have to be able to access them quick like the current method. Anyway what do you think about my mock up? Here is a refine version.

1. changing mode can be done thru top tabs, default is direct paint.

2. tools for specific mode will show up at the bottom tab, in this case DP tools.

3. camera options are move to navigation icons. default is "Perspective". You can switch to left,right,top,etc by clicking on it.

4. FPS, pointer counter move to top.

5. blobs/channels can be dock anywhere. Even on the right to mimick current 3DC look/feel.

6. tools tab should only be docked horizontally either on top or bottom, never sideway( easier programming for Andrew).

7. "Property" tab on right side, holds information on current selected tools, in this case the brush settings. Think of it as tool options. if a tool has no extra option it turns blank.

8. layer icons on the bottom were space out, they were too close before.

9. lock icon on top change to a simple circle, red circle = lock (think green light = go, red stop). Not lock = grey out circle.

10. soft stroke enable icon replaced with simple circle, green = enable, grey out = NOT enable.

11. "Color" replaced "Transparency" on top, just for consistency.

This GUI design allows you to add more tools and tool property/option if need without running out of space.

@phil have you seen the Modo layout customization capability? you can start with a blank canvas and divide the viewport and start populating them with different tools.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Good layout ( for mbx fans ). But I see problems:

- takes too much space

- distaance between icons is too big (but it is easy to change)

Anyway, there will be possibility to dock panels to bottom and you will be able to construct this layout easily (as soon as I will add color/spec/depth as separate dockables), so this layout will become possible.

edit: I see good point in making 'E' panel, color, depth and spec panels to be separate.

[lc8b105]

I prefer this part of Sonk's design:

[Andrew Shpagin]

I prefer this part of Sonk's design:

Anyway, there will be pages, that is no case.

[SonK]

Good layout ( for mbx fans ). But I see problems:

- takes too much space

- distaance between icons is too big (but it is easy to change)

Anyway, there will be possibility to dock panels to bottom and you will be able to construct this layout easily (as soon as I will add color/spec/depth as separate dockables), so this layout will become possible.

edit: I see good point in making 'E' panel, color, depth and spec panels to be separate.

thanks Andrew.

1. hmm not sure how it takes too much space? eveything is dockable like you have it, the only thing that might take up more space is the horizontal tool tabs, but if you squeeze it the tools icon will morph into small columns to accommodate. Maybe you can take a screen shot of the areas you think takes up too much space?I'll try to explain it to you or change it abit.

2. distance between icon is too big? Which icons?

4. "I see good point in making 'E' panel, color, depth and spec panels to be separate." Actually thats not the e-panel your seeing its just a tools option tab. Since the mouse cursor is pointing over the brush setting(e-panel icon), it will display all the tool "options".

Check the attach picture for this example. IF your in in "Retopology" mode the tools tab will only show all the tools related to that mode; "Retopology Tools", if you click on A(Retopology command menu), then the Property tab will display those tools(B).

sorry about the picture, its a quick work in Photoshop to illustrate the idea behind the "Property" tab. Maybe i should rename it to "Tool Property" or "Tool Option" tab. But i agree about the spec,color,depth channel should be separate.

edit for spelling error.