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Zbrush 4 announced


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This in two days ago:

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=070082

No specifics of any kind mentioned. So we can only speculate what kind of new tools and features they've decided to come up with. Is this a reaction to the popular emergence of 3D-Coat :brush: and increasing competition from MudBox?

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  • 4 weeks later...
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I haven't encountered much instability with Mudbox, though it seems to get bogged down more easily than one might expect.

After getting past ZBrush's gaudy, convoluted, defiantly incomprehensible design, you might find it capable of producing astonishingly intricate creations of beauty. While not quite in the same product category, ZBrush has nothing that approaches the capability of 3D-Coat's voxel tools.

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I dont think you can compare the 3DC and Zbrush really. There are high level similarities. But in detail both have completely own approaches. Id rather say these two together are much more than the sum of the parts. I love to use them together.

But really in terms of brushing feel Zbrush is the king by far, which also has to do with the fact that it is the oldest sculpting application on the market and they had much more time to refine (apart claytools maybe)

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  • 3 weeks later...
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One thing that Zbrush has which i think 3DC is currently missing is the scripting/macro things for users to make custom tools etc in the app with a basic editor and code format. There is the SDK which is cool but im not sure if any plugins has been released yet and it seems to be import/export stuff only right now and probably requires to compile a .dll etc in a coding app.

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Extensible scriptability in 3D-Coat would be a valuable addition.

Built-in automation using something like Python, Ruby, or AppleScript would provide an opportunity to develop more efficient workflows and help remove creative obstacles.

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lol I dont see how spotlight and lightbox are going to really make much difference at all to the way people work, seems like a gimmick to me not a really impressive feature at all, I look forward to hearing what features zbrush 4 has that will make it truly more powerful/useful than 3.

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One big thing i notice is -

ZBrush 4 will be a free upgrade for all registered users of ZBrush

I don't own ZB but free upgrades are great to have with apps. I still have to pay to update to V3 right now for 3DC and probably will sometime soon. If every big update is a paid one though i might not update in the future however. A advantage 3DC has is it's much more reasonably priced compared to ZB.

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One big thing i notice is -

ZBrush 4 will be a free upgrade for all registered users of ZBrush

I don't own ZB but free upgrades are great to have with apps. I still have to pay to update to V3 right now for 3DC and probably will sometime soon. If every big update is a paid one though i might not update in the future however. A advantage 3DC has is it's much more reasonably priced compared to ZB.

As a user who's been using 3dc for a while I can say that the development and additional features added during the version cycle really make it good value, development is constant and based on user input

if you have a practical suggestion its usually integrated very promptly.

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lol I dont see how spotlight and lightbox are going to really make much difference at all to the way people work, seems like a gimmick to me not a really impressive feature at all, I look forward to hearing what features zbrush 4 has that will make it truly more powerful/useful than 3.

I'm not a ZB user -- in fact I have been a longtime critic of ZB mainly because of its UI, and Pixologic's somewhat arrogant attitude (although it looks like they are trying to change that now, which is refreshing...)

However, I could not disagree with you more about spotlight and lightbox (and you need to throw GoZ into the picture). The ability to find images, import them directly into the app, remove backgrounds, and then start painting with the image is going to be an amazing time saver. They can even use the pic for sculpting detail... that is pretty damn incredible.

The ability to make a change in zBrush and have that change instantly in effect in Maya (or Max3D or -- I hope -- Messiah) is also a huge time saver.

And upgrading for free is an about face -- that I don't think will continue -- but at least for one update, Pixologic is doing it right.

I don't' think it is coincidental. zBrush is feeling the bite from Modo, Mudbox, and yes, even 3DC. The market is making them respond with new ideas, for a better price... which is very good news for us.

The one thing about turning on web access within zBrush, though, is that it will also let them check licensing via the web -- much in the same way EA and Valve can for their games. This should, in turn, cut down on the piracy of the product... so they may end up making more money in the long run. If they sell it cheaper, but everyone actually buys it instead of simply pirate it and use it, they will probably end up on top.

It's hard to say until we actually get our hands on what they are demonstrating (I remember how the retopo and transpose tools looked so good in the demo vids, too!) But if they deliver what they show, it will keep ZB a pretty big step ahead of 3DC, IMHO.

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As a user who's been using 3dc for a while I can say that the development and additional features added during the version cycle really make it good value, development is constant and based on user input

if you have a practical suggestion its usually integrated very promptly.

I think Digital777 makes a valid point. You are correct, 3DC is a really great value at $200... but it used to be less... and unless you bought it within a short period of time, you had to pay a significant portion of the original price again to get the update. That was peanuts because 3DC is still pretty cheap. But it will have to continue to inch upwards. As Andrew continues to add finctionality, there is no way he can keep a $200 price. If you have to keep rebuying, it will add up.

Frankly, I can't see Pixologic continuing the "free update" policy. That has certainly not been their way (in fact I think this is their first free update...) but if they did, in a couple of revisions, you will actually have ended up paying more for 3DC than zBrush...

Of course, that may be fine. There are many on this forum who prefer 3DC over zBrush.

But others are buying 3DC mainly because it is a low-cost alternative to zBrush. If they do the math and figure out that 3DC will cost more in the long run, they might decide to either A. not update, or B. save up for zBrush.

It will be interesting to see how it all plays out...

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Frankly, I can't see Pixologic continuing the "free update" policy. That has certainly not been their way (in fact I think this is their

first free update...) but if they did, in a couple of revisions, you will actually have ended up paying more for 3DC than zBrush...

actually, I bought version 2 of Zbrush, got version 3.0 and 3.1 for free, and will now get version 4 for free as well. I think some Zbrushers

have had free upgrades since version 1.55....

in regard to 3dc, I bought in Dec. '07 (thinking Andrew would keep upping the price...it was $75 1 month before I bought it, but I bought in December

for $95...and then Andrew dropped the price back down to $85 for quite some time thereafter), have been a part of the 17 free updates to 2.0, the 94(?)

alpha updates to get to version 3, and now I will have to put up an additional $80 to upgrade at this point.

For me, at least, I've got no problem with this, as version 2 -> version 3 is a huuuge leap in functionality and polish. Well worth it for me at the

$80 increase, and I would have paid $200 had I not already owned it.

my .02, onnit...

:)

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What i mainly ment to say is if we keep paying for upgrades it will match the price of zbrush through those upgrade costs over time if it keeps going up in price. A lot of the apps i own offer updates for free most of the time although all the point releases im guessing are free but i purchased quite close to the time V3 was announced as being in development so i had to upgrade quite soon after buying originally.

Don't get me wrong though i think 3DC is definately worth the price. I just updated to V3 today but if it keeps going up and requires payments each time i might not in the future. This is just me though as i don't have much money but graphics and 3D are a big interest to me so 3D Coat being cheaper than other 3D apps and offering so much power was obvious must buy. :D

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What i mainly ment to say is if we keep paying for upgrades it will match the price of zbrush through those upgrade costs over time if it keeps going up in price. A lot of the apps i own offer updates for free most of the time although all the point releases im guessing are free but i purchased quite close to the time V3 was announced as being in development so i had to upgrade quite soon after buying originally.

Don't get me wrong though i think 3DC is definately worth the price. I just updated to V3 today but if it keeps going up and requires payments each time i might not in the future. This is just me though as i don't have much money but graphics and 3D are a big interest to me so 3D Coat being cheaper than other 3D apps and offering so much power was obvious must buy. :D

From a zbrush user

"When I bought 3D-Brush (the original name of 3D Coat) 1.0, the introductory price was $70. The upgrade to 2.0 was free, and the recent upgrade to 3.0 was $80, for a total cost of $150. I'm not knocking ZBrush, but I paid around $300 for ZBrush 1.0 way back when (and I think that must have been a special offer.) Even if you bought 3D Coat 3.0 brand new now, it's only $200 compared to ZBrush at $595.

Greenlaw "

So Greenlaw and I paid less than 80US for significant upgrades. I would love to buy zbrush but its just not affordable for what I will use it which is mainly 3d doodling that my day job doing tv commercials doesn't really need. :brush:

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However, I could not disagree with you more about spotlight and lightbox (and you need to throw GoZ into the picture). The ability to find images, import them directly into the app, remove backgrounds, and then start painting with the image is going to be an amazing time saver. They can even use the pic for sculpting detail... that is pretty damn incredible.

Hey MarkG what I meant was that I dont find the features revolutionary, can spotlight and lightbox let you do things you could never do before? they cant, they just let you do what you did before in a slightly easier way. People used to search google images or whatever and then use images as textures and project them onto the model in zbrush 3. Now you can do that while still inside zbrush 4...so that saves a little time maybe but thats not really a feature worth shouting about is it? if they showed a new interface or if they revealed zbrush voxel sculpting or made a new polypainting toolset it would be much more interesting and it would actually change the way we can work as artists.

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...can spotlight and lightbox let you do things you Now you can do that while still inside zbrush 4...so that saves a little time maybe but thats not really a feature worth shouting about is it?

Hey, it's marketing's job to shout :-) But seriously, I think a lot of little things add up. I remember an old quote about Unix: "Unix is a lot like badword. If you've never tried it, you can't understand what all the fuss is about... but once you have, you can hardly live without it..." Not that zBrush is ever gonna be like badword... but you get my drift ...

if they showed a new interface or if they revealed zbrush voxel sculpting or made a new polypainting toolset it would be much more interesting and it would actually change the way we can work as artists.

Well, a new UI has been on my wishlist for as long as I have known about ZB. I've given up by now, though. Waiting for ZB to fix its UI must be like being a Cubs fan, waiting for the World Series...

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I also have ZB in my toolbox, and I like most of the features they've pitched so far. What I don't like is the high-speed acceleration of their videos, it gives an unrealistic impression of the actual performance of the system. In an industry where time often really is money I find that to be a little dishonest.

Still, GoZ does look quite nice and will indeed knock huge amounts of time out of a ZB>Maya (etc) pipeline. Decimation Master might come in handy some day too but overall I find that to be the least impressive new feature because it's been done before.

I think I was expecting more from ZB4, and while I don't think they've unveiled everything yet, these may well be the best features we will see in this upgrade.

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What I don't like is the high-speed acceleration of their videos, it gives an unrealistic impression of the actual performance of the system. In an industry where time often really is money I find that to be a little dishonest.

Yeah, it always looks so easy and so fast in the videos, doesn't it?

Still, GoZ does look quite nice and will indeed knock huge amounts of time out of a ZB>Maya (etc) pipeline.

I'm hoping it doesn't just stop there... As a software guy, I think Maya is so over-rated... I hope GoZ opens up pipelines for a lot of apps... Unless, of course, Pixologic is positioning themselves for an autodesk buy-out... who knows?

Decimation Master might come in handy some day too but overall I find that to be the least impressive new feature because it's been done before.

Well, that one is out now, so it's not really a ZB4 feature. It would be an amazing feature if it reduced polygons intelligently and gave you a good flow when it was done, but it seems like the mesh it produces is not good for much...

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