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Artomiano

3DCoat vs. ZBrush and Marvelous Designer

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Hi there,

maybe it's a creepy question but let me ask: Is there a way to compare 3DCoat with ZBrush (ZB) and Marvelous Designer (MD) - in certain respects. I am mainly concerned with the upcoming version in 2021.

Yes, I know, it isn't released yet. But there are some news out there. While ZB is primarly a sculpting and texturing tool, MD ist tool to create and animate clothes. So ... the news about the upcoming 3DCoat2021 shows some  very interesting features - for both areas - clothes and sculpting (incl. texturing). If I may say so: 3DCoat currently IS a good sculpting tool at this time. But it seems, it's going to be a "Jack of all Trades". This leads me to the question - when 2021 comes out - is there any need to use more than 3DCoat2021? I am aware that the answer depends on the individual scenario but if I can create AND animate clothes, I think I do not need MD. If I can sculpt in a similar way like ZB, I do not need ZB and so on. These are only some thoughts. Maybe someone can "think with me". ;)

Cheers
Tom

Edited by Artomiano
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Artimiano .  I think it depends what you mean by animate clothes. I f you mean have some sort of catwalk model prancing up an down in a flouncy dress, then no in 3dcoat. I think thats what MD is designed for isnt it. I use 3dcoat to "animate" cloth with a simulation but just to get a nice pose. ( did I converse with you about last week? Or was it someone else?) I suppose you could construct clothes and export them though, to  Blender or your favourite 3d package. Thats all beyond me though. 

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23 minutes ago, stusutcliffe said:

Artimiano .  I think it depends what you mean by animate clothes. I f you mean have some sort of catwalk model prancing up an down in a flouncy dress, then no in 3dcoat. I think thats what MD is designed for isnt it. I use 3dcoat to "animate" cloth with a simulation but just to get a nice pose. ( did I converse with you about last week? Or was it someone else?) I suppose you could construct clothes and export them though, to  Blender or your favourite 3d package. Thats all beyond me though. 

Hm ... I found some videos that shows fabric simulation. Yeah, it‘s not animation, maybe I used the wrong definition, sorry for that. I hope to create clothes and other fabrics directly in 3DCoat. But I‘m not sure if I can export and animate it proberly  in other 3rd party software like Character Creator or Unity.

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I have all 3 programs and this is my view, but take it with a grain of salt. 

      Zbrush is great at sculpting, and good with sculpting fold etc in clothes. It has a limited cloth sim now. But no animation. 

Once the clothes are sculpted you will need to retopo them and export it to whatever animation program you are using. Then you will still need to rig it, weight painting etc.

At that point all the folds etc you sculpted in may interfere with the animation.  

So you can "sculpt" the clothes but you will need to do a lot of work after words to get it animation ready. 

      Marvelous Designer is of course built for clothing and has settings for the type of cloth that is being simulated, Wool, canvas, leather etc.

It's a bit complicated because you need to know a bit about how clothing patterns work and they are sewn together. The good thing is you can check how the clothing is working on a short mocap. Once it's done you won't have to do any retopo etc to get it into another program. 

Making the patterns and running the sim to "Sew" them together can get a tedious especially when you have to use pins to hold things together, making pockets, pleats etc. If your not careful this can become a real time suck. 

       As far as 3d coat I think the retopo tool has more usefulness than sculpting, What I'd like to see in the 2021 version is the ability to use the curve tools to lay out a pattern to make the clothing panels and then stitch them together. Then run the cloth sim 

In order for that to work the curve tools need to have the ability to be moved away from the retopo target.
Imagine trying to make a pattern for a long coat, or parts of clothing that fold over each other. 

The other option is to Sculpt the clothing first and then retopo it. 

Any of the programs can do modern fairly simple clothing. Where they all run into problems is more complex clothing. 

Take a look at Elizabethan patterns or 16th century patterns for real headaches. :)

 

Edited by mash
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Thanks for your feedback.

5 hours ago, mash said:

I have all 3 programs and this is my view, but take it with a grain of salt. 

      Zbrush is great at sculpting, and good with sculpting fold etc in clothes. It has a limited cloth sim now. But no animation. 

Once the clothes are sculpted you will need to retopo them and export it to whatever animation program you are using. Then you will still need to rig it, weight painting etc.

At that point all the folds etc you sculpted in may interfere with the animation.  

So you can "sculpt" the clothes but you will need to do a lot of work after words to get it animation ready. 

      Marvelous Designer is of course built for clothing and has settings for the type of cloth that is being simulated, Wool, canvas, leather etc.

It's a bit complicated because you need to know a bit about how clothing patterns work and they are sewn together. The good thing is you can check how the clothing is working on a short mocap. Once it's done you won't have to do any retopo etc to get it into another program. 

Making the patterns and running the sim to "Sew" them together can get a tedious especially when you have to use pins to hold things together, making pockets, pleats etc. If your not careful this can become a real time suck. 

       As far as 3d coat I think the retopo tool has more usefulness than sculpting, What I'd like to see in the 2021 version is the ability to use the curve tools to lay out a pattern to make the clothing panels and then stitch them together. Then run the cloth sim 

In order for that to work the curve tools need to have the ability to be moved away from the retopo target.
Imagine trying to make a pattern for a long coat, or parts of clothing that fold over each other. 

The other option is to Sculpt the clothing first and then retopo it. 

Any of the programs can do modern fairly simple clothing. Where they all run into problems is more complex clothing. 

Take a look at Elizabethan patterns or 16th century patterns for real headaches. :)

 

Maybe I did you wrong but if you want to fold a robe ... is it much more than this (video at 0:29)? The folds will be simulated automatically, if I'm right.

Because of the curve tool:

It seems that you create your shape or patterns and the you can do anything else with it ... so ... simulate it or not? Hope so. ;)

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Asking for opinions is not the best as each user have different preferences and needs.

 

3D Coat advantage beeing all in one tool making it fast to create without needding to switch tools,

and it has some great features like best retopo features, very intuitive curves tools or great materials painting among others.

About cloth , Zbrush and Blender are quickly catching up with recent features, i would not be suprised they will propose as good features making Marvelous Designer useless.

 

Try the tools, there is free trials, so you'll find the answers about what you really need.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Artomiano said:

Thanks for your feedback.

Maybe I did you wrong but if you want to fold a robe ... is it much more than this (video at 0:29)? The folds will be simulated automatically, if I'm right.

Because of the curve tool:

It seems that you create your shape or patterns and the you can do anything else with it ... so ... simulate it or not? Hope so. ;)

They way they go about making the pillow is interesting. I'm assuming 3d coat does not have internal pressure in the cloth sim? I forgot you can also take a look at Blender for cloth sims etc. I think the one advantage it has is the poly modeling tools and cloth sim. 

 

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@everyone and @Carlosan

in theory (in 3DCoat 2021): Would it be possible to create 2D Shapes with the new curve tool and put / stich it together and then simulate it as fabric / cloth? If so, this way would offer a similar way to "contruct" clothes in Marvelous Designer. Would be really great. :D

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