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3DCoat 2021 Open Beta test !


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The dual screen thing doesn't work at all. I'm using a Wacom 24" pro and an LG 4k next to it and the primitives come in totally stretched out, distorted. This is not the way to dual or triple monitor an app. Houdini does it best with Maya a close second.  You have to have floating attribute editors  that you can tear right off the main window and place around at wil and  in justice to 3D Coat there is no sculpting program that can multi monitor properly. Sculpting programs have to run super fast since they handle millions of polys that would freeze up normal DCCs so you find that Zbrush, Mudbox and 3D Coat cannot off load menus and attribute editors as separate windows from their main window.

 

gb8RrYN.jpg

CFvdhAO.jpg

Frankly I find that doing without multiscreening is not an issue. What is an issue is the manual/documentation. I would have liked it to be as good as Rhino 3D's at the very least. Asking for Houdini's level of documentation would be a bit of overkill.

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image1_tweak.jpg.318aff62a7aaa6e3882f233727483e64.jpg   this room seems a bit pointless why not combine these with retopo or modellingimage2_modellingtools.jpg.86e3022b98afbff651cee246e63833f2.jpgadding simple things like a plane has a ridiculous amount of options.. the workflow is way too slow on the      modelling side of things 1339062526_image3_modelliingtools.thumb.jpg.24ee6bd66fa74773ea02a09bc67b98b3.jpgalso the tools inside modelling are so darn complex we really need a faster work flow ,i cant find any shortcuts for extruding,loop cuts, or even making the gizmo appear which is madness...when i go to loop cuts you dont get an exact middle , its very hard to be precise 

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The Constructor tool is interesting to me but I can't get it to work as I would expect it to. The corner pieces seem to be too big for the square and don't line up evenly. Is this working as intended?

constructor3.png.74db0225d53444837e0d72bdfe27d372.png

Edit: Somebody marked this as "confused". I don't know if that means my question was unclear or they are just unfamiliar with this tool. In case it is the former what I am referring to is that I would expect the corner shapes to be symmetrical with the cube shape and not stick out over the edge, as they are in the Joints tool seen below.

joints2.png.b453189792df17beda2c5c99d4a1e018.png

 

Edited by Wizardkiss
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12 hours ago, thinkinmonkey said:

First of all, I used 2021 only for a couple of hours, but, at the moment, I like that idea: I could close some panels, because those icons open the same and I can save space.
I need more time with that, but it's not so bad.

the idea is good [maybe not for me ] but I just saying about UI overlook

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2 hours ago, superman punch said:

image.thumb.png.53b480b4986dbe6f6a25d1def411ac6f.png

I organized the interface for personal use.
It would be good to refer to it.

Thank you.

well, not for everyone. I don't use presets, too messy; alphas and tool options are more important

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10 hours ago, RetopoBro said:

In the paint room, I can not get the curve stroke to paint, I see the percentage counting to 100 in the top left window but no paint is being applied.

Also when using brush along curve or run brush along projection, when using Curves, no paint is being applied for those either.

Even in sculpt room, the curve stroke is not working or it's very unpredictable:
Tried with other brushes/alphas, it seems to me it's unreliable at the moment.

curveStroke_applied.jpg

curveStroke_result.jpg

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As an artist, I planned to use 3DCoat for further concept arts. But I'm not sure if I want anymore. I know, there are some artist who're doing this way. But for me - coming from Photoshop & Co. - the workflow and the UI is ... creepy. I'm sorry. ;) I own 3DCoat for years. Stepped in many times ... only for a couple of trials - and let it fallen because it's not really accessible. Maybe it's on me. I know there is a learning curve but ... I worked in many creative apps, like Photoshop, Indesign, PremierePro, Audition, Metashape, Substance, Blender and more ... but only 3DCoat seems to be a "wall". I do not understand it. I want it ... really. But ... it's so difficult. When Pilgway announces the upcoming version 2021 I hoped so much for a _really_ better entry and workflow. But it didn't happen. :(

Maybe Pilgway could publish a whole (new) set of learning videos (not only these 40 sec. trailers) to train us how they think an effective workflow should go. Could be helpful.

Edited by Artomiano
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7 hours ago, L'Ancien Regime said:

The dual screen thing doesn't work at all. I'm using a Wacom 24" pro and an LG 4k next to it and the primitives come in totally stretched out, distorted. This is not the way to dual or triple monitor an app. Houdini does it best with Maya a close second.  You have to have floating attribute editors  that you can tear right off the main window and place around at wil and  in justice to 3D Coat there is no sculpting program that can multi monitor properly. Sculpting programs have to run super fast since they handle millions of polys that would freeze up normal DCCs so you find that Zbrush, Mudbox and 3D Coat cannot off load menus and attribute editors as separate windows from their main window.

 

gb8RrYN.jpg

CFvdhAO.jpg

Frankly I find that doing without multiscreening is not an issue. What is an issue is the manual/documentation. I would have liked it to be as good as Rhino 3D's at the very least. Asking for Houdini's level of documentation would be a bit of overkill.

I should clarify that I Never said I stretch the application over multiple screens, my issue is I cannot run the app at all on single screen when I have two displays or more displays of different resolutions, hardware accelerated application should really be kept on a single screen. If you look at my video I have it displayed on one screen. With the offset present. Setting the resolution to the same on all displays means I can at least run 3dc on one screen.

My issue is not a multi screen support only the ability too use the application at all on one screen.

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41 minutes ago, Artomiano said:

As an artist, I planned to use 3DCoat for further concept arts. But I'm not sure if I want anymore. I know, there are some artist who're doing this way. But for me - coming from Photoshop & Co. - the workflow and the UI system is ... creepy. I'm sorry. ;) I own 3DCoat for years. Stepped in many times ... only for a couple of trials - and let it fallen because it's not really accessible. Maybe it's on me. I know there is a learning curve but ... I worked in many creative apps, like Photoshop, Indesign, PremierePro, Audition, Metashape, Substance, Blender and more ... but only 3DCoat seems to be a "wall". I do not understand it. I want it ... really. But ... it's so difficult. When Pilgway announcec the upcoming version 2021 I hoped so much for a _really_ better entry and workflow. But it didn't happen. :(

Maybe Pilgway could publish a whole (new) set of learning videos (not only these 40 sec. trailers) to train us how they think an effective workflow should go. Could be helpful.

There is no clear path it all depends on what you want to do with the application?  From just texturing and baking maps from an asset you have built elsewhere,  sculpting a start to finish project,  tweaking normal map from another software. Retopology of external asset.

I'll admit there is a plethora of confusing options especially for baking. I usually have a very set course when I use it, I often incorporate many different tools using 3dc for specific tasks within that pipeline. 

3DCoat is a Far cry from Photoshop by design. It has elements from it sure but they are there for specific tasks. What are you hoping to do with it.

I'm not defending it's often confusing complexity, just trying to understand what you want from it and how you wish to work with it.

We would all like to help make it better and more attainable usable in multiple workflows pipelines.

Edited by Scary M
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To me 4.9 was just perfect with the beta tools, loved it.

I guess I'll have to get used to 2021 eventually, to be able to continue using the beta tools, and take advantage of some of the additions. gizmo-less transforms is very appealing to me, as well as faces/edges/vertex selection having been added to the undo stack. The thing is that I can't just switch right now : too many crash reports here, and I can't make the buttons on my 3d-mouse work (they bring up the default 3dconnexion pie menus).

Also there is a need for documentation. For instance how do you use the smart retopo ? how do you set up nodes in the render room ? the short feature preview videos are nice, but it's a pain to have to watch videos to try to guess what is being done.

For now I'm sticking with 4.9 and opening 2021 occasionally to test a thing.

the constructor tool turned into kitbash tool looks fun, but I was not able to make it work : as soon as I select a new piece, everything done with the previous one vanishes :/
 

I love the "make sculpt mesh" in the modeling room, but it is so frustrating that the sculpt mesh does not update when you move a vertex on the retopo. It seems you have to switch tools for it to update. Also to me it is only useable without subdivisions. even the first subdivision turns the shape into a useless blob : the smoothing when subdividing in sculpt room has always been way too strong, making it unuseable, you lose too much detail.

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55 minutes ago, Scary M said:

There is no clear path it all depends on what you want to do with the application?  From just texturing and baking maps from an asset you have built elsewhere,  sculpting a start to finish project,  tweaking normal map from another software. Retopology of external asset.

I'll admit there is a plethora of confusing options especially for baking. I usually have a very set course when I use it, I often incorporate many different tools using 3dc for specific tasks within that pipeline. 

3DCoat is a Far cry from Photoshop by design. It has elements from it sure but they are there for specific tasks. What are you hoping to do with it.

I'm not defending it's often confusing complexity, just trying to understand what you want from it and how you wish to work with it.

We would all like to help make it better and more attainable usable in multiple workflows pipelines.

> There is no clear path it all depends on what you want to do with the application

Yes - for sure! Hey, I work in Photoshop for years now. You have a thousand ways to achieve your individual goal. But you will find a way - easily and fast. And you can test it - duplicate a layer, test it, use it or leave it. As fas as I know that is not possible in 3DCoat.

Hm ... I talk about three workflows that I just need:

No. 1 - asset creation for game engines

1. modelling a basic object
2. create more details and shapes via sculpting
3. retopo for optimizing
4. paint textures
5. bake and export it as game asset

No. 2 - work on imported characters

1. importing a character base from Character Creator 3
2. change/sculpt some aspects of the character mesh, add clothes, items ...
3. paint textures
4. export it for animation purposes in iClone (lastly export it from here to any 3rd party software).

No. 3 - concept art

1. modelling a basic object
2. create more details and shapes via sculpting
3. paint basic textures
4. set up lighting
5. export it as image (or maybe via screenshot) for further editing/painting in photoshop

It's complex and confusing. If you do not work in an exact order, at any point you will face strange issues (get it from different users in the web).

So ... as far as I know, my three "workflows" needs different approaches - in different "work rooms". But that's the point ... it confuses me. ;) Some tools are only in a specific room available. And if I do not work in the "correct" order, I never reach a good looking goal.

Edited by Artomiano
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44 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

To me 4.9 was just perfect with the beta tools, loved it.

I guess I'll have to get used to 2021 eventually, to be able to continue using the beta tools, and take advantage of some of the additions. gizmo-less transforms is very appealing to me, as well as faces/edges/vertex selection having been added to the undo stack. The thing is that I can't just switch right now : too many crash reports here, and I can't make the buttons on my 3d-mouse work (they bring up the default 3dconnexion pie menus).

Also there is a need for documentation. For instance how do you use the smart retopo ? how do you set up nodes in the render room ? the short feature preview videos are nice, but it's a pain to have to watch videos to try to guess what is being done.

For now I'm sticking with 4.9 and opening 2021 occasionally to test a thing.

the constructor tool turned into kitbash tool looks fun, but I was not able to make it work : as soon as I select a new piece, everything done with the previous one vanishes :/
 

I love the "make sculpt mesh" in the modeling room, but it is so frustrating that the sculpt mesh does not update when you move a vertex on the retopo. It seems you have to switch tools for it to update. Also to me it is only useable without subdivisions. even the first subdivision turns the shape into a useless blob : the smoothing when subdividing in sculpt room has always been way too strong, making it unuseable, you lose too much detail.

Have you tried to add supporting edgeloops in areas where you don't want such smoothing "blobs?" We have to do this in all 3D applications, except where they may have a special crease angle options (like OpenSubdiv does). 

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image.png.21494d0876345ef760d4d16e6d3b6d0b.png 

seriously?  Who designs those icons hehe  U have flat-shade weird shapes on the top-right UI  and soft gradation icons with eye-bleeding very non-smooth curve black outline on it.. where the glue? even sh*tty looking 3dmax have more visual glue on UI  xD

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26 minutes ago, tcwik said:

image.png.21494d0876345ef760d4d16e6d3b6d0b.png 

seriously?  Who designs those icons hehe  U have flat-shade weird shapes on the top-right UI  and soft gradation icons with eye-bleeding very non-smooth curve black outline on it.. where the glue? even sh*tty looking 3dmax have more visual glue on UI  xD

I like it. The ink line is to give it proper contrast. Nothing will suit everyone's tastes, so why such harsh criticism of the hard work people put into a massive undertaking. Do you want people speaking about your artwork so abrasively and with such abusive language? 

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this is soo bad taste u can dig it XD poop style ..  I think people judge this anyway ;] ..  btw. I like work without icons for my [not]  long time in 3dc [maybe because icons are changing faster than names in 3dc Ui and are more clearly defined for me ..  really sorry for my ' abusive language' ;

okay I think  'Plane Defined' mode, doesn't work well in 2d paint, is  still project from camera view [or there are some new settings in it, somewhere ]

 

 

 

image.png

 

btw. feel free to judge my taste I'm still learning and I definitely want more! ;] [deifintly ]

Edited by tcwik
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I think its more the black outline they can look cartoonish. not all of them but some I like the contrast but heres a thought drop the Outline and Use different colour  materials for different rooms or fu nctionsthat way your eye can quickly jump to where it needs to be and you can much more easily identify the required brush. The problem i always found before when i did the icons back in in the day, was lots and lots of the same colour tiny spheres you get lost.

ExaMPLE.thumb.jpg.8c11c748095926f07e1f76dca22d3582.jpg

edit - at least with this build we can actually set our own icons 

1758024390_Screenshot2021-04-02122239.jpg.5886b6b62f1b6bb7f0d305dddf3f4236.jpg

alas to for all icons :(

Edited by Scary M
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When you have SOOOO many tools anything that creates a quick visual grab for the eye is surely better than all the same, @ devs dont take this the wrong way but you will ghet used to the way the icons look so you will not see the importance of a first glance familiarity adding variation and colour might help 

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3 minutes ago, animk said:

Be able to set color for icons might be a good idea, like setting color for layers.

Well, yeap, but I would prefer that was labelled as a "task Z", in other words, something to be done when priorities are finished and bugs are resolved.

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27 minutes ago, artdude12 said:

Not launching for me. Windows 10 version 20H2. Intel i7-3930K CPU. Nvidia driver 461.72. Titan X Maxwell GPU (2). 64GB memory. Also tried installing on my 2nd computer. Identical config. as the other. Still no launch.

For everyone whom has launching issues...at least in Windows...please try to go into your Anti-Virus and/or Firewall EXCEPTIONS list and add this 3DCoat 2021.exe file. It might also help to RMB click the desktop icon and choose RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR.  I know this Anti-Virus blocking was an issue launching once or twice, for me, in the past. 

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