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3DCoat 2021 Open Beta test !


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1 hour ago, John Spittle said:

Hi All,

What menu should be displayed in the retopo room when you RMB over an Item in the scuplt tree? I'm getting

3Dcoat-RMB.thumb.png.1fad0d9b6f0ccf719a29d3a3f6e21ae8.png

is that correct? i'm presuming it should be more like the old one. I was looking for the auto retopo. I am a bit of noob so correct me if i'm wrong.

Also if i right click on an any item as soon as i move that mouse the menu dissappears! I have to move the mouse fast and try a couple of times before being able to select anything on the menu.

cheers

Johnny

 

 

Yeah, it should give you sculpt object options.  At least, that's what i would prefer

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1 hour ago, TreetopFlyer said:


Regarding the Voxelization of subdivision preview objects:

In this example there is a cube and a cylinder sculpt object. Outside of the telltale name, the cylinder “PolyGroup1” looks like any other surface object in the sculpt room.
image.thumb.png.0e4257607c7678f72a6afa572feb8303.png
However, it is not. If you click on the “S” to turn it from a surface into a voxel object nothing happens because in this example it is being dynamically placed there from a subdivision preview in the modeling/retopo room.

First, there needs to be some visual indicator in the tree that this object is being generated dynamically from something else. (The name itself is not sufficient) There is a “bracket” convention used when an object has been resampled e.g. “[0.5]Cube” so something like “[Dyn]PolyGroup1” might work? (This should also be used for curves-generated objects)

Second, it doesn’t matter if the object is being generated dynamically: you should just be able to click the “S”, and have it voxelized in one move.
Right now to voxelize a subdivision preview in the sculpt room, you have to click the "S" and if nothing happens 1) switch to the modeling room 2) hunt down correct the poly group 3) select `Mesh > Unlink Sculpt mesh` 4) go back to the sculpting room 5) find the object again in the sculpt tree 6) click the “S” toggle button again.

Regarding retopo primitives:

image.thumb.png.afb1a654cc43e69a1619c1557266eaaa.png

What about a 'P' instead of an S to denote Poly Object, or Polygroup?  

I'm hoping that eventually we'll have access to poly modeling and quad based scuplting tools/options in the sculpt room in these cases.  And yes, as you've said, being able to convert to a S - sculpt or V - sculpt object would be ideal.  Albeit with a warning for the destructive process.

Have you tried merging visible onto another layer? 

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1 hour ago, gbball said:

What about a 'P' instead of an S to denote Poly Object, or Polygroup?  

I'm hoping that eventually we'll have access to poly modeling and quad based scuplting tools/options in the sculpt room in these cases.  And yes, as you've said, being able to convert to a S - sculpt or V - sculpt object would be ideal.  Albeit with a warning for the destructive process.

Have you tried merging visible onto another layer? 

Yes, I have been using merge visible as a work-around. (I just dont think I should have to) I think if the 'P' label is there that would be best as far as a visual indicator goes, but then it is likely that internally that will require a lot of -re-work with how the current S/V toggling works and there is the question of what happens when you click it? does it become: a surface or voxels? But now it seems like where this is going is a "universal conversion dialog" somewhere in the UI, that lets you convert between these types: Voxel, Surface, Retopo Object, Paint Object. image.thumb.png.0806d6ebc5fa2570079eeed5bf328592.png  

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3 hours ago, TreetopFlyer said:

Yes, I have been using merge visible as a work-around. (I just dont think I should have to) I think if the 'P' label is there that would be best as far as a visual indicator goes, but then it is likely that internally that will require a lot of -re-work with how the current S/V toggling works and there is the question of what happens when you click it? does it become: a surface or voxels? But now it seems like where this is going is a "universal conversion dialog" somewhere in the UI, that lets you convert between these types: Voxel, Surface, Retopo Object, Paint Object. image.thumb.png.0806d6ebc5fa2570079eeed5bf328592.png  

Hey Treetop,

Yeah, you're correct it would make switching back and forth a bit more complicated.  Hotkeys and preferences could help with that though.  Also, I'm not sure there should be a distinction between a poly object and a paint object aside from whether or not it's been UVd.  

Another alternative would be to leave the Voxtree as it is and add in a proper outliner.  This would solve the other problem of having a separate dialog for each of Curves, SculptTree and Paint Objects.

Right now there are separate menus for Curves, Sculpts, Poly Groups and Paint Objects.  An outliner with the ability to filter by type would be a lot easier to manage.  Even photoshop has all kinds of different layer types and the Layers panels is more like an outliner in a 3D application.  

But to your original point, there should definitely be some kind of distinction of poly objects currently.  There is a similar issue with curves modifier sculpt objects.

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1553828202_CrashRectselection.jpg.b154eaf178d4ddd0fd7bdd1cc5787044.jpg

 

Crashes in Face Selection mode.

1. Uncheck Ignore Back Face
2. Choose Face selection mode
3. default selection mode (Rectangle) or Square lasso
4. drag it....
5. crash :p

Causing issue 3D Primatives
Sphere : Cube projection
Cube
dounut

---

In addition to the ones mentioned, other Primitives have also been confirmed to occur during editing.

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3 minutes ago, Yousung said:

1553828202_CrashRectselection.jpg.b154eaf178d4ddd0fd7bdd1cc5787044.jpg

 

Crashes in Face Selection mode.

1. Uncheck Ignore Back Face
2. Choose Face selection mode
3. default selection mode (Rectangle) or Square lasso
4. drag it....
5. crash :p

Causing issue 3D Primatives
Sphere : Cube projection
Cube
dounut

---

In addition to the ones mentioned, other Primitives have also been confirmed to occur during editing.

Thank.
I repeated the crash

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Saving brush presets work around:

to make brush presets working after recall from presets panel - need to duplicate original brush in a brush left side menu then to make some custom tuning and after add preset to the preset panel. In this way presets starts to work

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hi - im really struggling to understand nodes in 2021 beta... Any pointers to at least get something to show up say on a shader? I have used Nodes before in other apps - but the 3DC version seems quite complicated. Just trying to get something simple to work leaves you scratching your head. Could someone do a demo or write a doc to explain it, at least to get us started. Its a powerful addition to 3DC but needs an good introduction to get people started.

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18 hours ago, Carlosan said:

if I create a new shader with assigned nodes (edit nodes option), the other old shaders can no longer be selected.

I can confirm this issue.

 

Also, when I make a shader using nodes.  Close it and reopen.  There are duplicate nodes stacked on top of each other.  

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Re-symmetrizing a sculpt object changes the selected paint layer, so you're now not sculpting anymore on your sculpt layer, but on a random paint layer, essentially losing everything you do without being aware.
on 4.9 re-sampling also changes your currently selected layer
(eg: i want to stay on Layer 0 to sculpt as the layers above have smart materials, but re-symmetrizing or re-sampling always select my "METAL" layer. The only way to work is to lock all layers appart from the one you sculpt on, but it's a big problem because it slows down the workflow a lot to lock and unlock layers, check the "you're attempting ot paint on a locked layer" warning message each time you re-sample to select again your layer 0 or sculpt layer ect..)
To reproduce:
1 - re-symmetrize a sculpt object

2 - Now you're not sculpting on Layer 0 anymore for example, but on Layer 1.

Also just making a sphere, symmetrizing, and re-sampling, does crazy random spikes when sculpting again:
image.thumb.png.756037bf14b92c20dae8d7a4c004513d.png

Seems like all the brush presets imported from 4.9 does either nothing at all, or these crazy spikes on the parts of the mesh that were not sculpted before..
To reproduce:
1- import your Presets

2 - sculpt with any of them.

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Wow I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Coat users have no idea about Layer0 needing to be only used for transparency. @Carlosan thanks for the heads up.
From a user perspective we NEED to use layer0, for everything, as we do not want to sculpt on a layer most of the time, we want to sculpt on the base mesh, and use layers only fro details, overall tweaks, tests ect.. the same way as in Zbrush, and intuitively we assume "Layer0" means something like the base mesh.

So it really need to be renamed or re-designed, because I'm confident every new user will want to sculpt only on layer 0, and only at some point use a layer to put a part of the sculpt on it.
Basically we want to sculpt destructively 90% of the time, then make some sculpt work non-destructive with layers.
If we need to manually create and name a layer "BASE SCULPT LAYER", well, it just won't happen, people will never find this message on the forum and keep using Layer 0 for everything to avoid working non-destructively.

It could all be solved with some UX, naming the default layer NOT "layer 0" and "layer 1" because it's extremely non-intuitive, but something like:

-Paint layer 1
   (TOOLTIP: avoid sculpting here, to avoid losing this sculpt if you delete or hide this painting information, you can have many paint layers, ideally with attached smart material not to lose track of it.)

-Sculpt Layer 1
   (TOOLTIP: you can do the majority of your sculpt on this layer, and add some other layers to add details or try variation on the sculpt non-destructively, but rememebr to name them SL or Sculpt layer to avoid putting paint information on them as well.)

-Transparency
   (TOOLTIP: do not paint or sculpt here, only used for painting transparency/alpha)


>>> But a question still remains, how else than with Layer 0 can I sculpt on the base mesh, not using the sculpt layer system that often has issues like leaving some artifacts on another layer when you hide one sculpt layer ?

 

Also, AUTOPO seem to still deserve some love, it seems way more flexible than Zbrush Zremesher but the results are just not up to standards, on this simple obj I tried and tried to do an AUTOPO on different 3dCoat version, testing different parameters, symmetry on and off, but Coat always, always freeze, even lowering the poly count to 5K, quality ect...:
sneek.obj

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Thanks Sprayer, I'm testing and testing again and all version of Coat freezes with autopo on this model, exported in fbx, obj, closed holes, cleaned it, autopo from the startup menu in a new file ect...
Only explanation might be that you scaled the object way down, as in the same project i could Autopo other pieces, the only difference being they're smaller.
But I'm trying to autopo just a sphere to test, and it's crazy slow, in both 4.9 and 2021, I've used the retopo quite often and sometimes it's workable but if it can"t even retopo a sphere at 2K poly in less than 30 minutes on a i7 7700K I think it needs to be improved.

From what Carlosan said I think Layer 0 should absolutely not be renamed base layer, as this is the critical issue, everyone using it obviously as a base layer thinking it's the only way to avoid storing your sculpt on a layer, while 3dCoat not expecting you to do that and creating issues like selecting a random layer each time you re-symmetrize if you have Layer 0 selected, which essentially destroys everything you sculpt if you forgot locking all other layers to only be able to sculpt on the layer you don't use for material.
 

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Another absolutely massive issue that's there and reported repeatedly since many years and that will definitely deter any artist from getting on the 3DCoat train, although it's probably extremely simple to solve:
Masking is pure black. so anything involving masking is essentially broken as the mesh is basically invisible, just a silhouette. Masking is massively used when sculpting in Zbrush and Blender, in Coat it is not because it is simply not usable.
Like in any other software masking needs to be 50% opaque so it can be usable.
image.thumb.png.527b0272b6aa10398fe63cecacc6267a.png

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1 hour ago, liok said:

Another absolutely massive issue that's there and reported repeatedly since many years and that will definitely deter any artist from getting on the 3DCoat train, although it's probably extremely simple to solve:
Masking is pure black. so anything involving masking is essentially broken as the mesh is basically invisible, just a silhouette. Masking is massively used when sculpting in Zbrush and Blender, in Coat it is not because it is simply not usable.
Like in any other software masking needs to be 50% opaque so it can be usable.
 

Agree 100%. Not just that, masking quality in sculpting mode is of extremely poor quality, yet its fine in paint mode. So what you had to do in the past is flip to paint mode, mask, flip back to sculpt mode, rinse and repeat.

Now with this version, it appears if you mask in paint room once, the quality in sculpt room matches the paint room, however if you flip to the fracture mode while something is masked it becomes a color coded mask, which then carries over in visual appearance in the Paint room. Very odd behavior.

Masking in 3DC really needs to become unified in behavior and quality. Tbh I wish they would also get rid of the "freeze" naming, and just go with the standard naming convention.

Edited by RabenWulf
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maybe not exactly same subject, but seeing what Anton Tenitsky was doing with splat maps, I was thinking that it would be awfully interesting to have the ability to set a clip mask to use a single channel of a layer.
That is, you could have a single layer painted with a blend of red, green and blue and use the individual channels as clip masks for other layers filled with smart materials.
This would mean you would get a preview of the result of a splatmap while painting it, not having to wait until you get your model into your target engine.
in the end you would hide all layers but the mask for export.


Of course, this is already possible to achieve in 3d-Coat (with the colours on separate layers) but it is a bit painful to set up.

Edited by Silas Merlin
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898092258_bandicam2021-07-0714-32-17-321.jpg.1846d539b5a8e1674ebc34de349b86a4.jpg
On the 2021 B55  still see AO and Curvature baking strangely.
I also checked in V4.
The problem comes out the same as in 2021.
(I remember it wasn't like this before.)

I searched the forums to see if I had done something wrong.
I came across what Carlosan wrote.

[ Show Voxels in Paint Room ]

The problem seemed to be caused by that option in the paint room.
When I turned off the option, I confirmed that baking was done normally in V4.

351956555_bandicam2021-07-0714-34-07-552.jpg.910d2a26b3ad30b863070d7a6930388a.jpg

(It's blurry, but it's baked.)

 

Will 2021 be the same?
No, even though that option is turned off, it still bakes strangely.
Just in case, I went back to the sculpt room and hide all the high poly meshes before baking.

1165160448_bandicam2021-07-0714-40-45-469.thumb.jpg.d525a3533786cadf5c94428b5fcfb724.jpg

This time it came out fine.

//

conclusion

in the 2021 version
[ Show Voxels in Paint Room ]
Regardless of the option, it seems to have an effect on baking.

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14 hours ago, liok said:


-Paint layer 1
   (TOOLTIP: avoid sculpting here, to avoid losing this sculpt if you delete or hide this painting information, you can have many paint layers, ideally with attached smart material not to lose track of it.)

 

This made me think of an OPTION that would be nice :
when you start painting with a new smart material, automatically create a new layer and attach the smart material to it. (the new layer should be created just above the active layer. this should be an option. anything automatic should be an option)

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Crashing on Bake to normal and whenever moving to the UV Room.

Not sure why this is happening as it didn't happen before. I upgrade to the newest PopOS version and I upgraded my graphics card. Going to leave my system specs here in case it's that:

             /////////////                pop-os 
         /////////////////////            ------------- 
      ///////*767////////////////         OS: Pop!_OS 21.04 x86_64 
    //////7676767676*//////////////       Kernel: 5.11.0-7620-generic 
   /////76767//7676767//////////////      Uptime: 14 mins 
  /////767676///*76767///////////////     Packages: 2730 (dpkg), 42 (flatpak),  
 ///////767676///76767.///7676*///////    Shell: bash 5.1.4 
/////////767676//76767///767676////////   Resolution: 2560x1440, 1920x1080 
//////////76767676767////76767/////////   DE: GNOME 3.38.4 
///////////76767676//////7676//////////   WM: Mutter 
////////////,7676,///////767///////////   WM Theme: Pop 
/////////////*7676///////76////////////   Theme: Pop-dark [GTK2/3] 
///////////////7676////////////////////   Icons: Pop [GTK2/3] 
 ///////////////7676///767////////////    Terminal: gnome-terminal 
  //////////////////////'////////////     CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X (12) @ 3.800GH 
   //////.7676767676767676767,//////      GPU: AMD ATI 0a:00.0 Navi 22 
    /////767676767676767676767/////       Memory: 6034MiB / 32067MiB 
      ///////////////////////////
         /////////////////////                                    
             /////////////                                        
 

Any idea how to fix?

My monitors are two different resolutions, I remember that may have been a problem before too.

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15 minutes ago, linnos said:

Crashing on Bake to normal and whenever moving to the UV Room.

Not sure why this is happening as it didn't happen before. I upgrade to the newest PopOS version and I upgraded my graphics card. Going to leave my system specs here in case it's that:

             /////////////                pop-os 
         /////////////////////            ------------- 
      ///////*767////////////////         OS: Pop!_OS 21.04 x86_64 
    //////7676767676*//////////////       Kernel: 5.11.0-7620-generic 
   /////76767//7676767//////////////      Uptime: 14 mins 
  /////767676///*76767///////////////     Packages: 2730 (dpkg), 42 (flatpak),  
 ///////767676///76767.///7676*///////    Shell: bash 5.1.4 
/////////767676//76767///767676////////   Resolution: 2560x1440, 1920x1080 
//////////76767676767////76767/////////   DE: GNOME 3.38.4 
///////////76767676//////7676//////////   WM: Mutter 
////////////,7676,///////767///////////   WM Theme: Pop 
/////////////*7676///////76////////////   Theme: Pop-dark [GTK2/3] 
///////////////7676////////////////////   Icons: Pop [GTK2/3] 
 ///////////////7676///767////////////    Terminal: gnome-terminal 
  //////////////////////'////////////     CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X (12) @ 3.800GH 
   //////.7676767676767676767,//////      GPU: AMD ATI 0a:00.0 Navi 22 
    /////767676767676767676767/////       Memory: 6034MiB / 32067MiB 
      ///////////////////////////
         /////////////////////                                    
             /////////////                                        
 

Any idea how to fix?

My monitors are two different resolutions, I remember that may have been a problem before too.

Also,

render is just straight black, but when I move around the viewport it has color.

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When editing a Shader in the Sculpt room, choosing an EXR file to drive the Modulate color by texture setting crashes 3DCoat instantly.

EXR files should be supported, preferably. If not, it should issue a warning. In any case, it shouldn't crash. It looks like a bug to me.

Not tried editing shaders in this way in any other room. The purpose was to re-use .exr files to create custom matcaps in the sculpt room to, well, sculpt.

Build used: Linux 3DCoat 2021.B55

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When editing a Shader in the Sculpt room, choosing an EXR file to drive the Modulate color by texture setting crashes 3DCoat instantly.

Trying to use an EXR file in the Color Modulation panel, in the IMG tab, crashes 3DCoat instantly too.

EXR files should be supported, preferably. If not, it should issue a warning. In any case, it shouldn't crash. It looks like a bug to me.

Not tried editing shaders in this way in any other room. The purpose was to re-use .exr files to create custom matcaps in the sculpt room to, well, sculpt.

Build used: Linux 3DCoat 2021.B55

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4 minutes ago, sprayer said:

@Allabulle matcaps working with PNG but with bugs, already reported several times =(
 

 

Yes, thanks!

I already converted some exr files to png. It's not ideal for a variety of reasons, but at least I can manage with png.

It shouldn't crash, though.

I wanted to report the crash, mostly.

Being able to use exr could be a feature request. I assumed it was requested before, indeed. To sculpt is pretty useful to use different matcaps here and there for many reasons also. I don't want to bother everyone in this thread as to why. But, as stated, it shouldn't crash, at least. Hopefully they'll fix the crashing. Maybe later we can have exr for the matcaps. Using png's has its issues.

Thanks again, sprayer.

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When importing an externally worked FBX...

  • no response
  • says the file is empty
  • It is not visible when you call it into the Sculpt Room. (The number of polygons comes out as '0')

I've been looking around the forums...

I tried various settings when exporting to 3dsMax.

  • Various FBX versions
  • Binary or ASCII type

Nothing worked for me...

 

Solutions and bug (?) reports

When importing a file in FBX format, if there is a language other than English (Korean language in my case) in the explorer path, there is a problem that it is not loaded properly.
The strange thing is that OBJ loads just fine.
(So that issue confuses me even more :p)

This symptom is the same for V4.

I don't know if I should call this a bug
If there are users who are experiencing the same problem as me, please check if the file path is alphanumeric. :q

Edited by Yousung
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