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3DCoat 2021 Open Beta test !


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10 hours ago, kt2 said:

Thanks, the video attached shows the 3d mouse navigation used rather sparingly and with a basic aim of setting a particular 'static' viewing frame at which then an operation is executed.
From that point of view, there's probably no significant difference between 4.xx and 2021 version and I can do those things just fine.

The problems start, however, once one desires to work rapidly in a way similar to traditional clay form-finding - continuously zooming in / out and orbiting around the object while inspecting and changing details. In 4.xx versions, such constant navigation changes work pefectly well, in the new beta there is a sensation of an artificial constraint / twist of navigation movement that does not correspond to the operator's input on the 3d mouse.

One of the posters before described it very well as a feeling of an 'invisible axis' having an additional effect on navigation co-ordinates. The problem seems more palpable when working in orthographic mode.

I'm on a wireless 'mini' version of 3DConnexion with the latest drivers; I've tried every setting possible to get rid of this effect, and it won't go. Once back in 4.9.72, navigation is all good.

....also, in Orthographic mode, it is usually better to use the OBJECT or WORLD rotation center,  from the Camera Menu (click the camera in the upper right corner of the viewport, and the section at the bottom of the list), whenever you are working in an Orthographic view. AROUND CURRENT PICKPOINT is better when in Perspective view. Most of the performance is based on the capability of the graphics card.

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16 hours ago, stas3dc said:

Sorry, we forgot to add Iges & Moulding to the Beta test license as they will be sold as separate Extra Modules. Now we added that functionality to the new Beta test license. Please download the new license here and you will be able to make Iges curves import.

Hi. Will the curve modeling tools be integrated in the normal version? 

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1 hour ago, Ctc_nick said:

Hi. Will the curve modeling tools be integrated in the normal version? 

Yes, of course, curve modelling tools will be integrated into the normal version. The only exclusion is Iges curves  Export/Import - that will be in a separate Extra module #1, Moulding forms tool will be in Extra Module #2

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3 hours ago, stas3dc said:

Yes, of course, curve modelling tools will be integrated into the normal version. The only exclusion is Iges curves  Export/Import - that will be in a separate Extra module #1, Moulding forms tool will be in Extra Module #2

Ok, thats great! Thank you for the information.

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22 hours ago, stas3dc said:

Please download the new license here and you will be able to make Iges curves import.

Hello again. The new beta license is not working here. 3DCoat works fine but the import option is not there. Just a small sign in the middle of the screen which sais 'PLU_EXPIRED' 

image.thumb.png.108aefb0f636aa0a3b92cb77b7946824.png

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1 hour ago, Silas Merlin said:

 

Don't set "Rotate around the camera origin". Use "Rotate around the current pick point". In 4.9 it will work strangely as well (in first case)

I changed navigation because there was a critical problem. On many computers (including mine) older 3D connexion API was causing random lags, dropping FPS down randomly to 20-40 if any wireless device connected (mouse for example). And it was impossible to fix, it is in the 3D-Connexion DLL-s. So I have taken a new API and adopted it. It is completely different, principally different, so all was remade absolutely from scratch.

Please try "Rotate around the current pick point". If I compare 4.9 and 2021 navigation on my PC, the V2021 is much much more fluent and predictable.

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14.05.21 B48

- fixed plugins license, the key should work now.

- Strokes tool extended, now it may be used with the curves toolset. This is separated into the new tool. 

- A lot of polishing in curves, many problems related to snapping solved. Generally, most of the time was spent on the curves polishing.

- bug fixing, general polishing.

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28 minutes ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

I changed navigation because there was a critical problem. On many computers (including mine) older 3D connexion API was causing random lags, dropping FPS down randomly to 20-40 if any wireless device connected (mouse for example). And it was impossible to fix, it is in the 3D-Connexion DLL-s. So I have taken a new API and adopted it. It is completely different, principally different, so all was remade absolutely from scratch.

Yes, it's clear that the behaviour of the 3DConnexion is different from the 4.9 versions; Using the 'Rotate around the current pick point' mitigates the wild navigation jumps and unpredictability when rotating / orbiting in Orthographic mode in beta.

There is a substantial change in the feel of the default Zoom action. In 4.9, Zoom can be at times overly aggressive (I personally tend to keep it at a 0.55 value), but at the same time it allows for very fast zooming in / out when judging the overall object form.
In the beta, the default 1 value of Zoom action feels very underpowered - a value between 3.5 - 4.5 brings back swiftness of navigation.

The overall feeling when navigating in beta is that of it being 'sharper' and overly articulating one particular movement direction at a time, so that there is less of smooth transitioning between different directions.

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Here's an example - an attempt at slowly rotating around an object while adding some extra direction input - zoom, rotating around an additional axis etc. In 4.9, all these elements add up nicely and I can maintain a constant rhythm of the overall action. In the beta, it's much easier to lose control over those constitutive movements, and the dominant direction takes over.

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19 minutes ago, kt2 said:

Yes, it's clear that the behaviour of the 3DConnexion is different from the 4.9 versions; Using the 'Rotate around the current pick point' mitigates the wild navigation jumps and unpredictability when rotating / orbiting in Orthographic mode in beta.

There is a substantial change in the feel of the default Zoom action. In 4.9, Zoom can be at times overly aggressive (I personally tend to keep it at a 0.55 value), but at the same time it allows for very fast zooming in / out when judging the overall object form.
In the beta, the default 1 value of Zoom action feels very underpowered - a value between 3.5 - 4.5 brings back swiftness of navigation.

The overall feeling when navigating in beta is that of it being 'sharper' and overly articulating one particular movement direction at a time, so that there is less of smooth transitioning between different directions.

The speed of the navigation commands is largely controlled through the 3DConnexion device software. I have different speed levels on mine, set the way I prefer, because they do not seem to work uniformly, by default.

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12 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

Thank you for the appreciation of our work.
But let's be more specific.
1. What tools have you been waiting for and not seeing?
2. What needs to be simplified in the modeling room?

One thing for 100 certain is GRADIENT (Soft) SELECTION. It speeds up many modeling tweaks. Without it, adjusting forms is 5-10 x harder. I have been asking for this for years, now. It is available in the old Tweak Room and in the Sculpt Room (POSE tool), but not the modeling room.

 

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1 minute ago, AbnRanger said:

The speed of the navigation commands is largely controlled through the 3DConnexion device software. I have different speed levels on mine, set the way I prefer, because they do not seem to work uniformly, by default. 

Fair point, I tend to keep the 3DConnexion device speeds as they are and tweak the 3DCoat 3D Mouse values instead.
Surely the right speed settings can be found that suit each user's style.

As per the new API feel, I've just attached a video above showing some of the navigation differences.

In my very personal opinion, the previous versions offer a more balanced feel of how the constitutive movement directions add up, allowing for a more subtle interrogation of the model. There might be many users for whom this will be of little consequence, and effectively this will only affect my personal opinion on whether the upgrade is of any advantage to myself, as the old version simply allows to concentrate more on work and less on overcoming navigation artefacts.

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1 hour ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Don't set "Rotate around the camera origin". Use "Rotate around the current pick point". In 4.9 it will work strangely as well (in first case)

I changed navigation because there was a critical problem. On many computers (including mine) older 3D connexion API was causing random lags, dropping FPS down randomly to 20-40 if any wireless device connected (mouse for example). And it was impossible to fix, it is in the 3D-Connexion DLL-s. So I have taken a new API and adopted it. It is completely different, principally different, so all was remade absolutely from scratch.

Please try "Rotate around the current pick point". If I compare 4.9 and 2021 navigation on my PC, the V2021 is much much more fluent and predictable.

In the video first I try "rotate around current pick point" as suggested. Result is desastrous as you can hopefully see.

Then I press F on the forehead to use "from custom point". then, I hold the Alt key while navigating with the 3d mouse so as to show the point around which the camera is supposed to rotate (and doesn't, in my opinion).

The reason "rotate around camera position" was requested as a feature was to enable navigating freely in a (large) scene without having to take care of where the brush was on the screen (going with the brush over a distant object in the scene would obviously cause huge disorientating jumps when rotating, because the camera would rotate around a point far away).
In 4.9 this is the option I use all of the time, without issues (I do not have any wireless device plugged in).

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4 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

 

In the video first I try "rotate around current pick point" as suggested. Result is desastrous as you can hopefully see.

Then I press F on the forehead to use "from custom point". then, I hold the Alt key while navigating with the 3d mouse so as to show the point around which the camera is supposed to rotate (and doesn't, in my opinion).

The reason "rotate around camera position" was requested as a feature was to enable navigating freely in a (large) scene without having to take care of where the brush was on the screen (going with the brush over a distant object in the scene would obviously cause huge disorientating jumps when rotating, because the camera would rotate around a point far away).
In 4.9 this is the option I use all of the time, without issues (I do not have any wireless device plugged in).

Are you on Linux? Perhaps that is why you are having issues that most, here, are not? Perhaps there is something wrong with the 3DConnexion drivers on Linux, and/or linux/MAC builds of 3DCoat?

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Just now, AbnRanger said:

Are you on Linux? Perhaps that is why you are having issues that most, here, are not? Perhaps there is something wrong with the 3DConnexion drivers on Linux, and/or linux/MAC builds of 3DCoat?

Never mind that post. I didn't look close enough to see it was Windows. The interface seemed different than what I see on Windows 10, because your icons are on top, rather than the bottom, etc.

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[sorry for offtopic again] I wish 3dcoat have annotated/grease pen [like blender 3d ;)] U can't imaging how huge an improvement is quick 2d sketch before you moved your vertex or voxel!  even freaky simple just draw/erase tool is holy grail in any work pipeline

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1 hour ago, tcwik said:

[sorry for offtopic again] I wish 3dcoat have annotated/grease pen [like blender 3d ;)] U can't imaging how huge an improvement is quick 2d sketch before you moved your vertex or voxel!  even freaky simple just draw/erase tool is holy grail in any work pipeline

the measure tool could be used for that, but sadly you can't snap to measurements, which makes it unuseable for this kind of stuff. (I tried, worked around, nothing...)
of course measure tool only produces straight lines, which could be another issue depending on what you are trying to do, but, the huge plus is that :
-the measure tool exists in every room (except tweak?)
-in tool options there is a checkbox to make the measurement "visible with other tools"

 

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15 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

Thank you for the appreciation of our work.
But let's be more specific.
1. What tools have you been waiting for and not seeing?
2. What needs to be simplified in the modeling room?

things like the mesh extrude is an amazing tool, the one with 3dcoat has strange results..

when I say simplified basically I mean allow us to select mesh faces or edges without selecting(select) first 

has a gizmo on the mesh with changeable axis

hotkeys for extruding scaling rotating, I would 100% prefer basic tools so I can get a rough shape of what I'm sculpting ,I wouldn't use 3dcoat as my low poly modelling but it would be great to just have basic modelling tools + faster hotkeys to allow my workflow to be sped up .

I primarily use 3dcoat for sculpting and retopo , so I basically have all the tools I need but having separate rooms for modelling just to add a tooth shape and then import into my sculpting room just slows everything down, its not a nice experience , why cant we add a primitive that we can edit inside the sculpting room , have a mesh box showing each mesh we have and then a separate layer box for each mesh inside the scene?

have a edit mesh icon inside sculpting so we can add a cube and the use basic modelling tools inside sculpting room things like bevel, edge loops extrude etc.. 

would seriously save me a ton of time

I've started just sculpting in blender just because its more convenient 

which I don't want to do because 3dc has great sculpting tools and it actually saves my alphas lol

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15 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

1. What tools have you been waiting for and not seeing?
2. What needs to be simplified in the modeling room?

I really like the new curves tools and sweep functions. There is something I have not been able to figure out yet though. Is there a way to sweep a profile in such a way that it aligns with the edge of a geometry object, to for example sweep a cornice around the walls of a building?

Example:
cornice.png.537c1b8fa6a0c3c7387d4b5fbf85cc79.png

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Today I spent few hours playing with the low poly room. It requires practice but I start to have decent shapes. Concerning the mesh generation based on curve (the "swept" tools) have you got any documentation or an example for each tools?

For example, the "Surface by two view" tool automatically generates the curves as examples. Which is super interesting for learning. It would be nice to have additional samples for the others tools. It would help beginner like to me to better understand each of them.

 

P.

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4 hours ago, RootBSD said:

Today I spent few hours playing with the low poly room. It requires practice but I start to have decent shapes. Concerning the mesh generation based on curve (the "swept" tools) have you got any documentation or an example for each tools?

For example, the "Surface by two view" tool automatically generates the curves as examples. Which is super interesting for learning. It would be nice to have additional samples for the others tools. It would help beginner like to me to better understand each of them.

 

P.

I don't know if it will help but I found this channel with some developmental previews of all the sweep tools. That's what I've been using anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/c/АлександрГорбатовский/videos

 

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Hi everyone!

1.The 'remeber Brush settings' are not stored in the new rooms. Example: If you change from Select-tool to Cap-tool in Modelling room, 3DCoat forgets that the selection mode was set to reqtangular.

2. There are a lot of Hotkeys now.

What do you think about splitting up the Hotkeys per Room? This would also work for your own rooms when combinating Tools from differend Rooms.

Greetings to all

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Will the new modeling tools in 3DCoat 2021 be of use for car modeling? Car modeling is something I really want to do more of. I've modeled some hot rods using Silo3D & Heagon3D. And started a few cars models in Blender. I can model spaceships in the present 3DC. But cars is another matter. Try modeling a 1957 Chevy BelAir or 1963 Corvette Sting Ray in 3DC 4.9 and you'll go insane. Any thoughts on 3DC 2021 for automotive modeling?

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