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The feature ( Treat Retopo groups as materials)  has been corrected in the re- uploaded  2021.38 

The feature is selected by default so now it is on when checked. If you do not want to use it, de-select it.

Most likely this should be de-selected by default and only enabled by the user as it is a beta feature. A new user would not know that it is on by default now. 

Edit: I could have left it on when testing and my selection would have been remembered by 3DC when updating. It is worth checking to see that the feature is not on by default since I now have no way of being sure.

 

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Posted (edited)

@Silas Merlin 

Would this work for you?  Remember I am only trying to help, so if I have misunderstood, I am sorry about that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once you have baked to the paint room and you have several surface materials, One paint object, One UV set. 

Do all your texturing. Easier because you have several surface materials to work with.

Once completely done texturing, saving your 3DC file first as always, return to the Retopo Room,.

Move all your retopo groups to one retopo group.  Delete the now un-used Retopo groups or as they are called now Poly-groups.

Next Use the Feature under the Bake Menu--- "Update Paint Mesh with Retopo Mesh". It is non destructive, your paint layers will be kept.

Now in the Paint Room, You will have One Paint Object, One Surface Material and one Uv set and your texturing remains intact but now is only one surface material.

Exporting you no longer get have more than one material written into the fbx or obj file. 

I would suggest testing on some simple models to be sure all works as intended. like Paint layers, Normal maps etc etc...  Should work fine , your are not adjusting your uv set but just combining all the retopo groups to one and updating the paint mesh in the paint room to reflect what you just have done in the retopo room.

I have tested and all appears to work correctly.

 

Edited by digman
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4 hours ago, digman said:

Once completely done texturing, saving your 3DC file first as always, return to the Retopo Room,.

Move all your retopo groups to one retopo group.  Delete the now un-used Retopo groups or as they are called now Poly-groups.

Next Use the Feature under the Bake Menu--- "Update Paint Mesh with Retopo Mesh". It is non destructive, your paint layers will be kept.

Now in the Paint Room, You will have One Paint Object, One Surface Material and one Uv set and your texturing remains intact but now is only one surface material.

Exporting you no longer get have more than one material written into the fbx or obj file. 

I would suggest testing on some simple models to be sure all works as intended. like Paint layers, Normal maps etc etc...  Should work fine , your are not adjusting your uv set but just combining all the retopo groups to one and updating the paint mesh in the paint room to reflect what you just have done in the retopo room.

I have tested and all appears to work correctly.

 

I may hope to test the procedure, if it still work for 3 UV sets/tile  with 5 or 6 materials.  (so one UV tile include 2 or 3 materials, at same time  one mesh have multi UV tiles like UDIM)

we may often see such complex object  modeled by another apricaiton. 

if beta option only work for one UV tile with multi materials, after all I may need to customize material group when import 3d coat (I usually do so) to along with UV tile.

Then if it work well, the way may better officially documented . (after all test work correctly)   The 3d coat  usage of material groups / uv sets (tiles) is one of most difficult part when we start learn 3d coat . (but start to use paint room to import model,  at least for me, to understand those things, took long time)

 

 

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I made test object which Unwrap as  4 UV tiles,   then 1 to 3 UV tiles (UDIM 1001 to 1003) have 2 material group (surface group) for each tile.   Then test later. and I add one repuest..

The object have  4 UV tiles, with 7 material /slots in blender.   I do not expect 3d coat can import material group as same as blender for retopo room/paint room, then  I  plan to edit  retopo groups  in retopo room. At same time,  I only need to bake or generate texture for each UV tile not for each material groups , but hope to keep all 7 material groups as selection group  when I wrok in paint room.

I import the scene obj / FBX to retopo room >>  I may need to devide the object as  7 poly/retopo  groups in retopo room to keep material groups.

My request is,  I hope

Generate poly/retopo groups for each material groups when I import mesh to retopo room.

Because If there is such import option,  I can use   beta option "Treat retopo groups as Material" to bring mesh  for paint room (w/ without baked textures).

Though I need to confirm, the beta option can "Treat retopo groups as Material"  even though mesh have multi UV tile/sets. If current 3d coat can generate 4 UV sets with 7 materials in paint room when I activate "Treat Retopo groups as materials" it is really apreciate.

if it can only manage one UV sets mesh. with multi material group,  I may hope the beta option still enhanced it work for the multi UV set mesh.

when I work in paint room, I may keep all material groups then paint each material as I need. (hide/unhide or attach layer for each 7 material groups)   but  when I generate final texture I only need textures for each UV tiles (4) . If I follow Digman workflow, (then suppose it work for multi UV tile object)

1. Once completely done texturing (with use 7 material groups), saving  3DC file first , return to the Retopo Room,.

2. Move some retopo groups (devided as 7 material groups)  to same retopo group for each UV tiles ,  Delete  un-used Retopo groups.

3. Use the Feature under the Bake Menu--- "Update Paint Mesh with Retopo Mesh ". 

4.  Now in the Paint Room, I will have One Paint Object, 4 UV sets with 4 material.  then 3d coat can generate texture only for 4 UV sets not for 7 material group (before I used to paint)

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, tokikake said:

I may hope to test the procedure, if it still work for 3 UV sets/tile  with 5 or 6 materials.  (so one UV tile include 2 or 3 materials, at same time  one mesh have multi UV tiles like UDIM)

we may often see such complex object  modeled by another apricaiton. 

if beta option only work for one UV tile with multi materials, after all I may need to customize material group when import 3d coat (I usually do so) to along with UV tile.

Then if it work well, the way may better officially documented . (after all test work correctly)   The 3d coat  usage of material groups / uv sets (tiles) is one of most difficult part when we start learn 3d coat . (but start to use paint room to import model,  at least for me, to understand those things, took long time)

 

 

I don't know if you have tested starting with more than one sculpt objects, and several retopo objects for each meant to become materials of one paint object :

It won't work well, because as soon as you enable the beta feature, you lose benefit of "name correspondance".

 

Edited by Silas Merlin
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On 8/28/2021 at 4:55 AM, roentgen said:

 

I see.  (Un)Fortunately that's not problem for me because also Blender can't assign 2 or more UV maps to one vertex.

Sorry, this was completely my mistake. Correctly, as mentioned me by tokikake, Blender can't assign *INDIVIDUAL* UV maps each a polygon.(One vertex/polygon is included by  ALL UVmaps)

As Carlosan said, 3dcoat does not, 3Dcoat can assign only one UV map to a polygon. (One polygon is included by ONE of UVsets)

> There is no ability to assign different UV maps to the same polygon. 

 

Attached FBX(Ascii), uvmaps_test.fbx,  has multi UVmaps, when it's imported to 3dcoat, then we can see all UV maps wrote on the file, but 3dcoat does not know that polygon must be included by which UV set is.

If so, for re-painting, I should just consolidate all UV maps to one on blender when that object has many materials. This works well for me because I just wanted re-painting. But this may not be any help for other workflow.

I would say that may not necessarily need to separate objects/retopo-groups.

 

uvmaps_test.fbx

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56 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

I don't know if you have tested starting with more than one sculpt objects, and several retopo objects for each meant to become materials of one paint object :

It won't work well, because as soon as you enable the beta feature, you lose benefit of "name correspondance".

 

I actually now think how I can manage it when I bring mesh to sculpt room then  geometry sculpt ><;) and bake those normal map for each retopo objects.:unsure:

 for my first purpose was simply import mesh for paint room/ retopo room then edit mesh and texture sculpt (so paint or add normal in paint room only) 

So I think Digman procedure work for me, (I saw some un-stable case, how 3d coat generate UV with use the beta option for UDIM UV), but I seems manage it when I send the mesh to paint room. but as you said, when I bring the retopo groups to sculpt room >> (I may merge it as one sculpt layer to easy sculpt),  I can not bake sculpted normal maps 

I may need to merge each retopo groups as one mesh. or I may need to separate each sculpt layer , as same name as each retopo group.

but it may only work each section is clear divided.  (eg I test with simple cube mix obj, then it not separated as part. only group by UV tile and material groups) 

When sculpt connected part in sculpt room 3d coat need to select each sculpt layer >> so I need to merge to sculpt connected part...

(I may need more real sculpt test ^^; or need good teacher I suppose)

 

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1 minute ago, roentgen said:

Sorry, this was completely my mistake. Correctly, as mentioned me by tokikake, Blender can't assign *INDIVIDUAL* UV maps each a polygon.(One vertex/polygon is included by  ALL UVmaps)

As Carlosan said, 3dcoat does not, 3Dcoat can assign only one UV map to a polygon. (One polygon is included by ONE of UVsets)

> There is no ability to assign different UV maps to the same polygon. 

 

Attached FBX(Ascii), uvmaps_test.fbx,  has multi UVmaps, when it's imported to 3dcoat, then we can see all UV maps wrote on the file, but 3dcoat does not know that polygon must be included by which UV set is.

If so, for re-painting, I should just consolidate all UV maps to one on blender when that object has many materials. This works well for me because I just wanted re-painting. But this may not be any help for other workflow.

I would say that may not necessarily need to separate objects/retopo-groups.

 

uvmaps_test.fbx

I think I might mistake too. I might need to clear separate word usage between UV map and each UV set/ tile usage.. blender can attach multiple UV for mesh. (but usually we use only one UV map for current view , at same time  one UV map can contain multiple UV tiles or can separate as materials even though all UV locate on same UV tiles. (1 UV unit square)

 we can still mix use many UV map in shader, as I need to render each materials. 

3d coat can not apply different UV maps (it include some UV sets tiles)  but 3d coat can use UV sets as UV tiles or can use material as if it is separate UV sets.  (but one mesh have one UV , at least I think so, 3d coat not offer we can mix different UV map even though I edit Smart material )

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7 minutes ago, tokikake said:

but it may only work each section is clear divided.  (eg I test with simple cube mix obj, then it not separated as part. only group by UV tile and material groups) 

 

 

yes wth clearly divided sculpt objects that do not intersect there is no issue (no need for name correspondance).

However, when you have multiple intersected objects (not welded) to bake, you simply cannot use the beta feature to treat retopo objects as materials because you have to disable name correspondance. Therefore the baking will not know from which object to bake at the intersections.

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I did not keep 2021-9 to test, but I am pretty sure baking with reflections worked better at that point.

Now screenspace reflections seem to have no effect, emissive has no effect, added lights have little effect, and the most disturbing : custom angle for environement light has no effect.

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19 hours ago, Ctc_nick said:

Just a short addition, as explanation. When I start 3DCoat2021.37,38 windowed, and then try to maximize, the screen is not refreshing. It looks like in the Picture.

To try that you have to first open 3dcoat, make it windowed, close 3dcoat again, and reopen. If I try to scale the Window bigger I get black borders.

 

 

@Andrew Shpagin

I figured out it has nothing to do with the shader settings, but can be triggered by that.

 It is a screen refresh problem that I have. I can restore the whole 3dcoat window by reloading the scene. Maybe it is also only related to nvidias mobile gtx 1070,1080.. series.

For now saving and reloading is okay. 

Thank you

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21 hours ago, Ctc_nick said:

@Andrew Shpagin 

It happens almost always. :unknw:

Steps are:

1. create a Voxel Primitive in Sculpt

2. assign a shader with texture

3. edit current or permanent shader settings

4.click edit texture, choose texture or hit cancel

5.click okay

Result is: 3DCoat is still working, but the screen is only refreshing in the lower left.  There is one other thing.  If I start 3DCoat in a smaller window and then try to maximize, I also get the same black borders. Its not refreshing to the new borders of the program window.

This somehow seems connected. I have a notebook with nvidia gtx 1070, latest driver 471.68, 3DCoat2021.38

I will try to go to an earlier version to check if it worked earlier. What I know is, I don't have this in 4.9.72

Thank you for your attention. 

 

 

blue_metall.png

I am also unable to replicate... Try to delete the folders

Documents/3DCoat-2021/data

Documents/3DCoat-2021/UserPrefs/Preferences

 

Does the shaders issue happen in fullscreen mode (ALT ENTER)?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

I am also unable to replicate... Try to delete the folders

Documents/3DCoat-2021/data

Documents/3DCoat-2021/UserPrefs/Preferences

 

Does the shaders issue happen in fullscreen mode (ALT ENTER)?

 

'SOLVED: No screen refresh when changing window size.'

@Andrew Shpagin HA!! You are a Genius. That actually worked. How did you know that? 

Thank you Andrew! :yahoo:

 

Edited by Ctc_nick
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@Silas Merlin  

Windows version: 2021.39 re-uploaded.

Names Correspondence is working on my end with  " Treat Retopo Groups as Materials" enabled in Preferences.

I did test with more that one sculpt layer earlier and now here also with meshes intersecting.  3 separate sculpt layers. 3 retopo groups, Sculpt layers and retopo groups have the same identical names.

The meshes shown have no artifacts. Without Names Correspondence enable I get tons of artifacts where the meshes  intersect each other.  

Once baked I hid each mesh separately to check for artifacts and there were no artifacts in the 3 meshes. 

Went back to the Retopo Room. Combined the Retopo groups to one. Used Update Paint mesh with Retopo Mesh and no problems here either.

Yes, this is a simple model but I pushed the intersections to test. The purpose of the test was to see if 3DC was baking each mesh separately. I will test on a more complicated model but should work.

Saying the below again so it is clear just to be safe for any user reading this post.

This feature is designed for mainly this workflow----- Sculpt----Retopo-----Bake to paint room. I know this as I requested the feature.

How it works on importing meshes for per-pixel painting, importing a model into the retopo room or importing models with multiple UV sets , Udim tiles, I do not know as that was outside my scope of using the feature.

If you have a 3DC file to share, I will happy to test. PM me with a link.

works.jpg

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Windows version: 2021.39 re-uploaded.

Used Names Correspondence with "Treat Retopo Groups with Materials" enabled.

Second Test result on a more complicate model. The sculpt objects have intersections and the separate sculpt layers are occluding each other also.

4 sculpt layers, 4 retopo groups.

Auto-map to save time. yes is it messy...  Baked for normal map which I did as well in my last test.

I again hid each object (Surface Material) to check for artifacts. There were none.

I went through the entire workflow as I described in earlier post.  

Final result---- One Paint Object---One Surface Material---One UV set.

All appears to be working.

 

Works2.jpg

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When I paint a surface model in the paint room and merge the layers with Marge Visible, the visible layer is merged into Layer 1 regardless of the visibility of Layer 1.

If Layer 1 does not exist, the result of the merge does not seem to be saved in any layer.
The display remains temporarily, but when you switch the display status of Layer 0, the remaining display disappears.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, digman said:

@Silas Merlin  

 

This feature is designed for mainly this workflow----- Sculpt----Retopo-----Bake to paint room. I know this as I requested the feature.

 

 

It would be a very sad world if features could be used only for the specific purpose they were designed for.


Anyway, here is what I meant :
If you want to create three materials for each of your three separate objects, (Nine retopo objects total, for 3 sculpt objects), then name correspondance just cannot work.
(because the names of 9 retopo objects can't match 3 sculpt objects).

AH!
A workaround to test :
give the same name to each retopo object in a group of three, matching the name of the sculpt object.

this could maybe work (to be tested)

After baking, when you go to paint room you will get a warning that multiple materials share the same name (making it impossible to export all textures).
this will be easily solved of course either by renaming them in uv-room, ot just painting like you would in your scenario and then unifying the uv-sets in the retopo room before updating paint mesh, again as per your scenario.


 

Edited by Silas Merlin
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9 hours ago, Silas Merlin said:

However, when you have multiple intersected objects (not welded) to bake, you simply cannot use the beta feature to treat retopo objects as materials because you have to disable name correspondance. Therefore the baking will not know from which object to bake at the intersections.

About this: Therefore the baking will not know from which object to bake at the intersections.

Bake w/name correspondance:

- Before 38 upgrade was not working as expected

- After upgrade is working fine, please try again.

Edited by Carlosan
edited for fine tunning
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2 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

Bake w/name correspondance: after upgrade is working, please try again.

Carlosan, as I explained just now, this was just theoretical :
if you have more retopo objects than you have sculpt objects, then how can name correspondance work ? (if you give each retopo object a distinct name, they won't match with a sculpt object)

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7 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

It would be a very sad world if features could be used only for the specific purpose they were designed for.


Anyway, here is what I meant :
If you want to create three materials for each of your three separate objects, (Nine retopo objects total, for 3 sculpt objects), then name correspondance just cannot work.
(because the names of 9 retopo objects can't match 3 sculpt objects).

AH!
A workaround to test :
give the same name to each retopo object in a group of three, matching the name of the sculpt object.

this could maybe work (to be tested)

After baking, whn you go to retopo room you will get a warning that multiple materials share the same name (making it impossible to export all textures).
this will be easily solved of course either by renaming them in uv-room, ot just painting like you would in your scenario and then unifying the uv-sets in the retopo room before updating paint mesh, again as per your scenario.


 

I did not say other workflows would not work only I did not know. Is it possible for other workflows, yes of course. 

A feature can be improved by users requesting more workflows for that feature. 

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Possible bug: 

Windows version: 2021.39

This is importing the cube from the New Menu,  Paint w/ Deep Displacement (Micro-Vertex). 

The regular Brush and fill tool do not recognize the Smart Material depth information.  

The above only creates a smooth displacement.

Side Note ---- Stencils work correctly with the fill tool and regular brush.

The Airbrush does recognize the Smart Material depth information.

Steps to reproduce:

New Menu,  Paint w/ Deep Displacement (Micro-Vertex).

Choose the cube and subdivide upon import at 2k or 4k resolution plus 4 million or 16 million ( millions of polygons) in the import panel for 3DC's internal use.

Select a default Smart Material that shows good depth information

Turn on relief mode under the View window.

Use the fill tool and the Regular brush to see the error in the displacement map using a smart material.

Use the airbrush to see the correct displacement applied using a smart material.

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Posted (edited)

@Andrew ShpaginHey Andrew. Small request. Could we get a "Invert Hidden" function in the "Visibility and Ghosting" menu. For large scale sculpt trees this would be far more efficient if we want to work with a few layers at a time and would greatly reduce the amount of work we would have to do in the Sculpt tree itself. Basically the idea is to stay in the view port without having to work in the sculpt tree. For example, In a large scene with 50 sculpt layers I only want to work with three objects in the scene, each one on a different layer. I would hide those 3 objects interactively using "Shift V" in the view port. Then I would use the new "Invert Hidden" function to only see those 3 objects in the view port that I just hid. As of now, there is "Isolate" or alt "eye icon " in sculpt tree, which only works with one layer at a time. Then the only option is to hunt through the sculpt tree to find the others you want to unhide. For small scenes as it is now might be ok, but when dealing with large scenes or complicated scenes, this is too cumbersome. This may have been overlooked, but is a standard in many 3D apps and necessary in my opinion. Thanks for you and your teams hard work.

//edit

solved on version .40

Invert.jpg

Edited by Carlosan
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Version .39, Modeling space - issue with Transform / Scale / Rotate shortcuts.

Everything works fine when selecting in Vertex mode.
All fine with selections in Edge mode - apart from rotation.
In Face selection mode, none of these shortcuts work.

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3D-Coat 2021.36

Im getting a strange result in the paint room with the rectangle lasso.

When I use the default sphere, front ortho view, ignore backfaces checked.

I do a rectangle select across the sphere like this:

Untitled-1.thumb.jpg.cdf1751cfa86da053fec28ce5aa01e85.jpg

 

And I get this:

Untitled-2.thumb.jpg.0525ed6eb3b8769595170d3bcf988cb3.jpg

 

But if I use the default Cube, I get this:

Untitled-3.thumb.jpg.fc654b59334dc7ec9be9c5baaf72a994.jpg

 

Seems like a bug.

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