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3DCoat 2024 development thread


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2 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Sorry bad typo, i mean only one UVmap. 

There is no ability to assign different UV maps to the same polygon.

UVmap.jpg

 

I see.  (Un)Fortunately that's not problem for me because also Blender can't assign 2 or more UV maps to one vertex.

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Just now, roentgen said:

 

I see.  (Un)Fortunately that's not problem for me because also Blender can't assign 2 or more UV maps to one vertex.

You can actually have multiple UV (different UV) for same object for blender.  (so you can mix or choose different UV for each material and shader node, (for hide seam etc)

but for 3d coat you need to duplicate mesh,  then keep one mesh have one UV.   But basically 3d coat most stable and may work easy with One mesh and One UV in paint room I think.

(Though I can import some paint objects in paint room, but once generate 2 object as Paint object,  it usually more difficult to manage each layer. 

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46 minutes ago, tokikake said:

You can actually have multiple UV (different UV) for same object for blender.  (so you can mix or choose different UV for each material and shader node, (for hide seam etc)

but for 3d coat you need to duplicate mesh,  then keep one mesh have one UV.   But basically 3d coat most stable and may work easy with One mesh and One UV in paint room I think.

(Though I can import some paint objects in paint room, but once generate 2 object as Paint object,  it usually more difficult to manage each layer.  

 

hmm, okay. It's sure that Blender's multi UV for an object,  particular a relationship of material and UVmap,  may be not obvious for other program.

When I would like to import and repaint a model once exported, if it has multi UVs, I should duplicate it so that has one UV per a model, and just import one each time, and import texture, repaint it, then export it.

That's not so difficult, but it makes me wanna get a .... color palette or custom swatches.

Thank you all.

 

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Windows version: 2021.38

Possible bug: Preferences---Beta Tools---Treat retopo groups as materials. 

 It is selected by default but ON is off and Off Is on. So it is backwards.  

The feature does work as intended baking from the retopo room to the paint room but the selection in Preferences is backwards.

I did test to make sure the feature works and it does. Only the selection is backwards as stated.

I turned the feature on and it works as expected  baking to the paint room.  I got one paint object and 2 surface materials. One uv set

Turned the feature off and I got two paint objects and one surface material, one UV set.

Thanks for keeping this feature. It is useful at times. 

 

 

 

 

 

backwards.jpg

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8 minutes ago, digman said:

Windows version: 2021.38

Possible bug: Preferences---Beta Tools---Treat retopo groups as materials. 

 It is selected by default but ON is off and Off Is on. So it is backwards.  

The feature does work as intended baking from the retopo room to the paint room but the selection in Preferences is backwards.

I did test to make sure the feature works and it does. Only the selection is backwards as stated.

I turned the feature on and it works as expected  baking to the paint room.  I got one paint object and 2 surface materials. One uv set

Turned the feature off and I got two paint objects and one surface material, one UV set.

Thanks for keeping this feature. It is useful at times.

If you read the tooltip carefully you will see that it works as described.
remember, default is on.
image.png.3f5e31a6ea65651ea3c2bd46ba2c0a2d.png

when you turn it off, the feature works in conjunction with this option in the baking dialogue :
image.png.2f52511c1f5cc0b74db77b8a55041d61.png

image.png.7bc4a8172d51d76debd47805caf2d156.png

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I have been editing my post to make it more clear>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It should not be own by default. I read the tool tip too. It is a beta tool. I requested this feature quite a while ago because I had no way of getting one paint object with several materials and one uv set baked from the Retopo Room to the paint room. The intended use of the feature is so I can. If I have one model and one uv set but several retopo groups, They will be bake as separate objects. This is not what want.

Tool tip states use at your own risk. Not the normal way 3DC handles things. default is retopo groups will create objects baking from the paint room.

When selected you get objects and deselected you get materials. That is backwards. 

Should be Selected, I get surface materials----deselected I get paint objects, 3DC's normal way. 

Maybe I am wrong in my thinking but this seems logical.

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3 hours ago, digman said:

I have been editing my post to make it more clear>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

It should not be own by default. I read the tool tip too. It is a beta tool. I requested this feature quite a while ago because I had no way of getting one paint object with several materials and one uv set baked from the Retopo Room to the paint room. The intended use of the feature is so I can. If I have one model and one uv set but several retopo groups, They will be bake as separate objects. This is not what want.

Tool tip states use at your own risk. Not the normal way 3DC handles things. default is retopo groups will create objects baking from the paint room.

When selected you get objects and deselected you get materials. That is backwards. 

Should be Selected, I get surface materials----deselected I get paint objects, 3DC's normal way. 

Maybe I am wrong in my thinking but this seems logical.

I notice it. And  I think the label of tool meaning work as reverse (as bool variable).  Though default is work as 3d coat default (not use material but separate as objects)

But it is not matter for user, , which is default for 3d coat.  because we decide it for each case.   then asked about it in another topic.. 

The Tool label =  "Treat retopo groups as materials"   then it have a check box.   usually we activate the check box (ON), it means = True.

if we de-activate the check box (OFF), it means = False.

I have not seen  other case for most of  aprication option which use check box. . if it work as reverse meaning,  user report it work as reverse.  

At current when "ON"  3d coat Treat retopo groups as objects not as materials.  when "Off" Treat retopo groups as materials.

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Then what I expect is.  if 3d coat factory default setting work as "Treat material as OBJECT",   the option need to set as "FALSE" = default should not check it :unsure:

then when  user hope to  use retopo (poli) groups as material groups in paint room,  we activate it (ON = "TRUE").  

or 3d coat may better change label .as Treat  retopo groups as objects. then tool tip describe, when False, it try to  treat poli groups as material (User own risk )

(at same time I request, if it will work when I use "Take mesh form paint room") but at first I think the label or bool function may better to change current reverse way (from label meaning), though it is not so serious problem , once I notice this tool work as reverse. (but usually it is not good thing for most of user who try to use option)

====

btw I am exciting if scale problem solved for new modeling tools (curve profile cap etc)  with scene Scale ^^  (thanks hard work as always)

3DCoat-2021-38 
Fri Aug 27 23:17:38 2021
 
- Bugfix Scene Scale
Edited by tokikake
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5 hours ago, digman said:

backwards.jpg

 

Suddenly I have doubts about my earlier reply.
I have used this feature in the past by unchecking the box, but I always have a difficult time understanding what exactly I need to tick/untick and where to get the result I want.
and now... I see that in 4.9 the wording is the opposite in preferences.
could it be that you are right, and the wording has been reversed but not the behaviour ? image.png.8494c47469bb67623b3d6c6aa3a5a1f7.png

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On 8/23/2021 at 4:52 PM, Gorbatovsky said:

Added me TODO.

I could confirm recent beta 2021.38 solved Scene scale issues Thanks :drinks:  (I  have felt really annoying about this, because I needed to change scene scale  as 10 or 100 to avoid view clipping issue when zoom) then it can manage import mesh with unit meter easy. (but did not work about some new modeling tool)

1 3d coat now can manage Scene scale correctly for Surface Strip, Surface Swept, Profile for Cap and first mesh  (never generate wrong scale mesh any more)

2 3d coat can manage Scene scale correctly for Array of copies and Surface Patch tool (never generate wrong scale copied mesh with scene scale setting)

Really thanks Andrew and Gorvadofsky , (all 3d coat team):)

about on plane setting issue, I may hope if  plane setting can devide from each Surface tool but offered as panel window (as same as curve panel) because I think it keep setting which used to draw any curve in retopo/modeling room.

I hope to check current plane setting when I draw any curve.  (when user activate on plane),  at current plane setting only visible, for some tools active in the tool option.

 

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12 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

 

Suddenly I have doubts about my earlier reply.
I have used this feature in the past by unchecking the box, but I always have a difficult time understanding what exactly I need to tick/untick and where to get the result I want.
and now... I see that in 4.9 the wording is the opposite in preferences.
could it be that you are right, and the wording has been reversed but not the behaviour ? image.png.8494c47469bb67623b3d6c6aa3a5a1f7.png

I believe so ^^;  (but my english can not tell what I means well ) then I expect it work for suface mesh >> retopo mesh, then did not know how it change,, just few days ago, I notice it is somehow work reverse (actualy I felt it not work, but it work as reverse)

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"- Fixed brush engine problem when brushes that should only indent (like Chiesel) was lifting the surface a little as well. So making accurate bevels with chiesel was almost impossible. Now it is corrected. I recommend "Restore defaults" for the Chiesel to get it close to 4.9."

That's why I never use presets, only core tools ;]  'scratches tool 'need to lookup too, because don't work like in old 3dcoat its lift the surface too

Edited by tcwik
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21 hours ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

Does it happen always or sometimes? If always, please tell me the steps to reproduce. It does not crash on my side, possibly we do something differently.

@Andrew Shpagin 

It happens almost always. :unknw:

Steps are:

1. create a Voxel Primitive in Sculpt

2. assign a shader with texture

3. edit current or permanent shader settings

4.click edit texture, choose texture or hit cancel

5.click okay

Result is: 3DCoat is still working, but the screen is only refreshing in the lower left.  There is one other thing.  If I start 3DCoat in a smaller window and then try to maximize, I also get the same black borders. Its not refreshing to the new borders of the program window.

This somehow seems connected. I have a notebook with nvidia gtx 1070, latest driver 471.68, 3DCoat2021.38

I will try to go to an earlier version to check if it worked earlier. What I know is, I don't have this in 4.9.72

Thank you for your attention. 

 

 

blue_metall.png

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Just a short addition, as explanation. When I start 3DCoat2021.37,38 windowed, and then try to maximize, the screen is not refreshing. It looks like in the Picture.

To try that you have to first open 3dcoat, make it windowed, close 3dcoat again, and reopen. If I try to scale the Window bigger I get black borders.

Does that happen to somebody else?

screen_refresh.png

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6 hours ago, Silas Merlin said:

 

Suddenly I have doubts about my earlier reply.
I have used this feature in the past by unchecking the box, but I always have a difficult time understanding what exactly I need to tick/untick and where to get the result I want.
and now... I see that in 4.9 the wording is the opposite in preferences.
could it be that you are right, and the wording has been reversed but not the behaviour ? image.png.8494c47469bb67623b3d6c6aa3a5a1f7.png

If the feature is really on: Two examples:

First example:

I have one retopo mesh and one sculpt layer object. 

Retopo Room: One Retopo Mesh. I create several retopo groups for this one retopo mesh. I have only one uv set.  When the feature is on, I get one surface object and several surface materials plus only one UV set.

 

Second Example:

Retopo Room:  I have several retopo meshes, several sculpt objects in separate layers and several retopos groups but only one uv set to hold the unwrapped uv islands for all retopo meshes.

I do need to deselect as shown in your picture "Treat materials as separate Textures otherwise I still get one surface object and several surface materials but I now  get several uv sets also. This not what I want so you must deselect  "Treat materials as separate Textures"in the baking panel.

The main purpose of the feature as requested is to get One surface object---Several surface materials---One uv set.  It was for baking from the Retopo Room to Paint Room. I requested the feature and Andrew was kind enough to add it to the beta tools as it is not the normal way 3DC handles things.

The feature does work as it is supposed too but the selection is backwards in Preferences. That is the only problem. 

 

 

 

 

panels.jpg

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6 hours ago, sprayer said:

Stencil preview and fill with lasso is different for cube map

 

1599340627_bandicam2021-08-2903-35-30-906copy.thumb.jpg.0f5ca14f01d153dce00a766c8b986e63.jpg

Test version 2021.38
I have also confirmed this issue.

The problem occurs when the resolution of Voxel is increased.

  • The problem persists even when switching to surface mode on voxels at [2x], [3x].
  • but it doesn't matter if you are in surface mode from the beginning
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9 hours ago, digman said:

If the feature is really on: Two examples:

First example:

I have one retopo mesh and one sculpt layer object. 

Retopo Room: One Retopo Mesh. I create several retopo groups for this one retopo mesh. I have only one uv set.  When the feature is on, I get one surface object and several surface materials plus only one UV set.

 

Second Example:

Retopo Room:  I have several retopo meshes, several sculpt objects in separate layers and several retopos groups but only one uv set to hold the unwrapped uv islands for all retopo meshes.

I do need to deselect as shown in your picture "Treat materials as separate Textures otherwise I still get one surface object and several surface materials but I now  get several uv sets also. This not what I want so you must deselect  "Treat materials as separate Textures"in the baking panel.

The main purpose of the feature as requested is to get One surface object---Several surface materials---One uv set.  It was for baking from the Retopo Room to Paint Room. I requested the feature and Andrew was kind enough to add it to the beta tools as it is not the normal way 3DC handles things.

The feature does work as it is supposed too but the selection is backwards in Preferences. That is the only problem. 

 

 

Here is what I use it for, but it is awkward :
I want several materials sharing a single texture, and I don't want to have to copy/paste textures in photoshop.

so I need to first bake (with the no baking option) one object > several surface materials
I export that, then delete the paint object.
go back to retopo room and this time actually bake from high poly but with a single surface material.
when I eventually export this, it will be the texture that I use... on the previously exported object with the separate materials.

Of course easiest would be not to worry about surface materials at all, and create them after the fact in Blender ?
Why always Blender/photoshop? Why can't we just do everything inside 3d-Coat itself ? So frustrating.
Why, for instance is 3d-Coat unable to export Collada with multiple materials correctly ? (it only works if there is just one)
why do you need to export all layers to external editor to be able to extract the wireframe ?
I'm sure there are many things like that but I can't remember them now.

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The feature ( Treat Retopo groups as materials)  has been corrected in the re- uploaded  2021.38 

The feature is selected by default so now it is on when checked. If you do not want to use it, de-select it.

Most likely this should be de-selected by default and only enabled by the user as it is a beta feature. A new user would not know that it is on by default now. 

Edit: I could have left it on when testing and my selection would have been remembered by 3DC when updating. It is worth checking to see that the feature is not on by default since I now have no way of being sure.

 

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@Silas Merlin 

Would this work for you?  Remember I am only trying to help, so if I have misunderstood, I am sorry about that.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Once you have baked to the paint room and you have several surface materials, One paint object, One UV set. 

Do all your texturing. Easier because you have several surface materials to work with.

Once completely done texturing, saving your 3DC file first as always, return to the Retopo Room,.

Move all your retopo groups to one retopo group.  Delete the now un-used Retopo groups or as they are called now Poly-groups.

Next Use the Feature under the Bake Menu--- "Update Paint Mesh with Retopo Mesh". It is non destructive, your paint layers will be kept.

Now in the Paint Room, You will have One Paint Object, One Surface Material and one Uv set and your texturing remains intact but now is only one surface material.

Exporting you no longer get have more than one material written into the fbx or obj file. 

I would suggest testing on some simple models to be sure all works as intended. like Paint layers, Normal maps etc etc...  Should work fine , your are not adjusting your uv set but just combining all the retopo groups to one and updating the paint mesh in the paint room to reflect what you just have done in the retopo room.

I have tested and all appears to work correctly.

 

Edited by digman
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4 hours ago, digman said:

Once completely done texturing, saving your 3DC file first as always, return to the Retopo Room,.

Move all your retopo groups to one retopo group.  Delete the now un-used Retopo groups or as they are called now Poly-groups.

Next Use the Feature under the Bake Menu--- "Update Paint Mesh with Retopo Mesh". It is non destructive, your paint layers will be kept.

Now in the Paint Room, You will have One Paint Object, One Surface Material and one Uv set and your texturing remains intact but now is only one surface material.

Exporting you no longer get have more than one material written into the fbx or obj file. 

I would suggest testing on some simple models to be sure all works as intended. like Paint layers, Normal maps etc etc...  Should work fine , your are not adjusting your uv set but just combining all the retopo groups to one and updating the paint mesh in the paint room to reflect what you just have done in the retopo room.

I have tested and all appears to work correctly.

 

I may hope to test the procedure, if it still work for 3 UV sets/tile  with 5 or 6 materials.  (so one UV tile include 2 or 3 materials, at same time  one mesh have multi UV tiles like UDIM)

we may often see such complex object  modeled by another apricaiton. 

if beta option only work for one UV tile with multi materials, after all I may need to customize material group when import 3d coat (I usually do so) to along with UV tile.

Then if it work well, the way may better officially documented . (after all test work correctly)   The 3d coat  usage of material groups / uv sets (tiles) is one of most difficult part when we start learn 3d coat . (but start to use paint room to import model,  at least for me, to understand those things, took long time)

 

 

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I made test object which Unwrap as  4 UV tiles,   then 1 to 3 UV tiles (UDIM 1001 to 1003) have 2 material group (surface group) for each tile.   Then test later. and I add one repuest..

The object have  4 UV tiles, with 7 material /slots in blender.   I do not expect 3d coat can import material group as same as blender for retopo room/paint room, then  I  plan to edit  retopo groups  in retopo room. At same time,  I only need to bake or generate texture for each UV tile not for each material groups , but hope to keep all 7 material groups as selection group  when I wrok in paint room.

I import the scene obj / FBX to retopo room >>  I may need to devide the object as  7 poly/retopo  groups in retopo room to keep material groups.

My request is,  I hope

Generate poly/retopo groups for each material groups when I import mesh to retopo room.

Because If there is such import option,  I can use   beta option "Treat retopo groups as Material" to bring mesh  for paint room (w/ without baked textures).

Though I need to confirm, the beta option can "Treat retopo groups as Material"  even though mesh have multi UV tile/sets. If current 3d coat can generate 4 UV sets with 7 materials in paint room when I activate "Treat Retopo groups as materials" it is really apreciate.

if it can only manage one UV sets mesh. with multi material group,  I may hope the beta option still enhanced it work for the multi UV set mesh.

when I work in paint room, I may keep all material groups then paint each material as I need. (hide/unhide or attach layer for each 7 material groups)   but  when I generate final texture I only need textures for each UV tiles (4) . If I follow Digman workflow, (then suppose it work for multi UV tile object)

1. Once completely done texturing (with use 7 material groups), saving  3DC file first , return to the Retopo Room,.

2. Move some retopo groups (devided as 7 material groups)  to same retopo group for each UV tiles ,  Delete  un-used Retopo groups.

3. Use the Feature under the Bake Menu--- "Update Paint Mesh with Retopo Mesh ". 

4.  Now in the Paint Room, I will have One Paint Object, 4 UV sets with 4 material.  then 3d coat can generate texture only for 4 UV sets not for 7 material group (before I used to paint)

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2 hours ago, tokikake said:

I may hope to test the procedure, if it still work for 3 UV sets/tile  with 5 or 6 materials.  (so one UV tile include 2 or 3 materials, at same time  one mesh have multi UV tiles like UDIM)

we may often see such complex object  modeled by another apricaiton. 

if beta option only work for one UV tile with multi materials, after all I may need to customize material group when import 3d coat (I usually do so) to along with UV tile.

Then if it work well, the way may better officially documented . (after all test work correctly)   The 3d coat  usage of material groups / uv sets (tiles) is one of most difficult part when we start learn 3d coat . (but start to use paint room to import model,  at least for me, to understand those things, took long time)

 

 

I don't know if you have tested starting with more than one sculpt objects, and several retopo objects for each meant to become materials of one paint object :

It won't work well, because as soon as you enable the beta feature, you lose benefit of "name correspondance".

 

Edited by Silas Merlin
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