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3DCoat 2024 development thread


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4 minutes ago, tokikake said:

Test with 2021.39  (I think I have seen same issue with other 2021 versions)

If I save scene which not have any paint objects , retopo mesh, sculpt mesh. (empty scene),  but change some setting and save the scene ,  3d coat seems auto generate  Paint object and empty Surface materials with saved scene name, when I open the saved file next time.

I did not see this issue about 4.9 

 

I get this in 4.9 all the time but I never reported it because it does not seem to do any harm.
But  yes, it is annoying.
I mean, it happens when you have nothing in paint room, but you have sculpt mesh (and retopo mesh, not baked)

Edited by Silas Merlin
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35 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

I get this in 4.9 all the time but I never reported it because it does not seem to do any harm.
But  yes, it is annoying.
I mean, it happens when you have nothing in paint room, but you have sculpt mesh (and retopo mesh, not baked)

Yes it may not problem if I save scene after bake some retopo mesh to paint room with new file. (or open new file, import PPP mesh in paint room first then save the scene, the scene not auto add them.

But  I use the empty saved scene as my start up.  (then it auto add empty object material) then I will  import reference mesh or model >  Retopo >= perpixel,    I got un-necessary surface and object (empty) in paint room every time once 3d coat generate them.   I had experienced  got 2 same name mesh in paint room  as if I duplicate mesh without intention.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Carlosan said:

This is not the common workflow. That way take more time to get good result.

Maybe. However, as any developer might tell you, there will always be users who will use functions in ways not intended. This either comes down do simple newbie ignorance or an altered perspective. You see a butter knife and use it on bread. I see the same knife and use it to unscrew something.

This sort of mindset is all too common among software users, especially artists and gamers. Nintendo designed Samus Aran's bombs to do one thing, blow stuff up. Gamers saw it as a tool to climb high walls. Nintendo could've altered the weapon in future installments. Instead, they leaned into this "feature" and built future levels with it in mind.

You're 100% right. It will take longer to get the results this way. HOWEVER, 3DCoat should be flexible enough to accommodate a wider variety of workflow styles. It might not be the way that Andrew had originally intended, but he's not really the target audience, is he? The alternative is to say, "Nope. This is the approved way. Change." There's a risk of alienating a lot of "outside of the box" artists this way.

You can't give in to every wild user request, but this one doesn't seem TOO unreasonable on a basic conceptual level. I mean, how many times have you used ZBrush or Maya/3ds/Blender tools in ways they hadn't anticipated? Ideally, the apps should be able to bend a little extra without breaking. Because 3DCoat is a tool for artists, let artists be artists.

That's just my opinion though. Andrew's app. Andrew's call. I'll just continue to use my butter knife to unscrew stuff for the time being. :D

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2 hours ago, Carlosan said:

He is asking voxel mode for hard surface modeling.

Need very high density to sculpt crease edges.

This is not the common workflow. That way take more time to get good result.

Voxel mode for blocking, Manual retopo for details. Send mesh back to sculpt room on surface mode. Resample and use project tool to transfer detail. Fine sculpt to finish. Retopo > bake > paint.

Im not asking anything.  Im reporting a bug with a steps to reproduce for you. I know for a fact that this is a bug cause its working normal in 4.9

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Hi,

I wanna show the move tool issue that I mentioned with a gif

this is the behavior in 2021.39. First I move it free and then holding control to move in the normal direction.

movetoolissue.thumb.gif.e18cee101b7ac2a8c634e8abfc3be408.gif

 

In a fresh 2021.21 version, there was a steady stroke option for the move brush the ctrl function behaves similarly. As I mentioned I believe the steady stroke is activated in the background.

 

 

Edited by Daffyd
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2 hours ago, cookepuss said:

Maybe. However, as any developer might tell you, there will always be users who will use functions in ways not intended. This either comes down do simple newbie ignorance or an altered perspective. You see a butter knife and use it on bread. I see the same knife and use it to unscrew something.

Second that. I used 3DCoat for a substantial amount of time in a professional 3D-printing setting. At the time, I wasn't even very aware of the Surface mode capabilities and I used continuously very heavy Voxel objects to generate meshes for printing. The idea was that I could Voxel remesh away a lot of the errors that would take ages to hand-pick in polygonal modeling software.

I routinely produced matching sharp-edge .STL files using this technique and pushed it to a (near) precision-engineering area at times printing interlocking mechanisms, screws, casting moulds etc. All working perfectly and based on Voxel mode remeshing only.

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11 hours ago, jimhatama said:

This is rather bad bug, that makes making high detial meshes impossible. If you switch from surface to voxel brushes (for example after chisel/or if you use surface build up a bit)  back and forth, hard edges  get progressively destroyed by this operation. It seems like voxel remeshing algorithm is broken/changed from 4.9, Ive tested and this doesnt happen on 4.9. It is also much faster on 4.9 it looks like 2021 remeshes whole volume each time and 4.9 only changed partafter several these operations mesh looks ugly like this. in 4.9 everything is ok.  This makes any detailing impossible in 2021

You might want to crank up the initial voxel resolution on your object at the start - anywhere from 3.5 million triangles you should be fairly ok with detail preservation. I've just checked the sphere remeshing example you mentioned in both 4.9 and 2021.39 at between 3.5-5 million tris and there seems to be no difference on my side.

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1 hour ago, Daffyd said:

Hi,

I wanna show the move tool issue that I mentioned with a gif

this is the behavior in 2021.39. First I move it free and then holding control to move in the normal direction.

movetoolissue.thumb.gif.e18cee101b7ac2a8c634e8abfc3be408.gif

 

In a fresh 2021.21 version, there was a steady stroke option for the move brush the ctrl function behaves similarly. As I mentioned I believe the steady stroke is activated in the background.

 

 

Update in V.9 the Move Tool works both with steady stroke and without very smooth.

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5 hours ago, tokikake said:

Yes it may not problem if I save scene after bake some retopo mesh to paint room with new file. (or open new file, import PPP mesh in paint room first then save the scene, the scene not auto add them.

But  I use the empty saved scene as my start up.  (then it auto add empty object material) then I will  import reference mesh or model >  Retopo >= perpixel,    I got un-necessary surface and object (empty) in paint room every time once 3d coat generate them.   I had experienced  got 2 same name mesh in paint room  as if I duplicate mesh without intention.

 

 

Ah, you mean that the empty paint object remains after you import an actual mesh in your workflow ? I have not experienced that and I can see how it is a problem, then.

Here, I will show you why I have never thought it to be a real problem in my case : the empty object and materials vanish at the time of baking :

 

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2 hours ago, Silas Merlin said:

Here, I will show you why I have never thought it to be a real problem in my case : the empty object and materials vanish at the time of baking :

 

 

Yes I understand, it change with work-flow, some user never think it is problem even though you temporally get it, with your workflow 3d coat may not generate them.   anyway I report what I saw with real case and I think it should be annoying.

1. Start with new scene, then model in retopo room (for test just append new primitive as retopo group).
2. I save it as working.3b scene and close 3d coat.
3. I open the saved scene later to finish model.
4. When I open the working.3b, it generate empty mesh / surface which named as "working" in paint room. (if you check it you notice it or you do not notice it, or you can ignore them about this stage.
6. After finish modeling, and unwrap, I bake the current modeling room mesh >> it generate the working model in paint room). Then I see,  another "working" object / surface (with any real data) in paint room, with real working object and material. 

3d coat auto generate scene name object and material for paint room when user open saved scene if selected scene data not include any model name in paint room. 

Once 3d coat generate these orphan data for scene , it remain in paint room untill user manually perge it. (but after all when you save the scene without other model in paint room but only remain model in retopo/sculpt ,3d coat auto generate orphans again when we open it >>  kind of  looping

Once it is generated, Bake real mesh then generate new object in paint room, or save and re-open not auto clean up these orphans at least about recent betas. (do not remember how 4.9 work though)

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I still can't understand the extrude tools in the low poly room. They are just not intuitive at all. For that matter, the whole low poly experience is extremely crude and infuriating.

Maybe I'm using it all wrong but the reason I upgraded was because I thought this would be a rapid way to create hard surface models. Currently its practically impossible and I just wonder if anyone else is using this room with any success? Is it just me that finds it impossible to use?

Some issues...

-I can only select an extrude tool if I choose one from the sub menu, not if I select the parent menu button.

-The extrude tools dont highlight when selected. Why not? Is this a tool that can only be used in conjunction with another tool. This should be made much clear as its just confusing as it is now.

-If I select Smart extrude, select a face a left click drag the face just gets moved. There seem to be no way to actual extrude a face with this tool.

-If I select Normal extrude, select a face a left click drag the face just gets moved. There seem to be no way to actual extrude a face with this tool.

-With either of those tools if i click off 3d coat into my second monitor and then click back into 3d coat the face is immediately moved to a far off arbitrary point in space.

-I cant seem to select multuiple faces easily. Do I really have to select the select tool to do this? There are so many steps to perform actions that should be done with the mouse buttons. If I need the select to to be able to actually use these tools, why isnt it just selected automatically or already have that functionality?

_ I really have to hit 'enter' EVERY time I want to commit an extrude? Why isn't it automatic and why enter? That involves me moving my hand waaay across the keyboard every time I want to extrude a single face. This should be automatic but If I DONT want to commit an extrusion I should just hold shift or something. 

-If not the above, commit extrusion should always be done automatically if a select new faces or deselect the faces.

-After manipulating a face there is no quick way to deselect the face and select another face. Shouldn't I just be able to click outside of the model to deselect it? I cant click any other face to either add to the selection OR replace the selected face.

-The only way to deselect faces (and therefore be able to select other faces) seems to be to go the popup menu and hit deselect all. This is VERY un-intuitive.

-Has this even been tested? Is there a video of someone using the low poly room efficiently? Maybe that would help.

 Have you tried the low poly modelling in other programs like Rocket 3D, Cinema 4d for example? Just copy them :)

..and I have no idea how to get my low poly mesh into the sculpt room at a decent resolution to start sculpting on. So many buttons, so little help.

 

Edited by Grimmy
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I found new issue, when I put models from poly models (which we store retopo model) 3d coat change scale after apply it.

And I think it change with  current scene scale setting (it not happen about other versions)

I suppose the new problem caused with after bug fix for 38

- Bugfix Scene Scale

I understand it remove problem (I report about them)  some curve generate mesh change scale after apply (from which I see as view temp).

Now it break when I add 3d model from poli models   ^^;   (it effect some user setting to import mesh I believe include me )

1. add model from poli models window (test with one cube)

2. we may adjust scale etc,, then decide from current view size.  I content with the view size.

scenescale.thumb.JPG.fabc23a6f3f0c5be840460ec66252a66.JPG

3. click apply, now it change scale (I suppose it seems mutliple with scene scale setting, )

breakscale.thumb.JPG.4cb0b54988791df0cbb3bb11e2ce2776.JPG

I hope this problem will be solved, but please do not loop problem (seriously hope). eg slove about poli model , but return curve generate mesh problem about size. (I seriously do not hope to report same things again)

 

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21 minutes ago, tokikake said:

I found new issue, when I put models from poly models (which we store retopo model) 3d coat change scale after apply it.

And I think it change with  current scene scale setting (it not happen about other versions)

I suppose the new problem caused with after bug fix for 38

- Bugfix Scene Scale

I understand it remove problem (I report about them)  some curve generate mesh change scale after apply (from which I see as view temp).

Now it break when I add 3d model from poli models   ^^;   (it effect some user setting to import mesh I believe include me )

1. add model from poli models window (test with one cube)

2. we may adjust scale etc,, then decide from current view size.  I content with the view size.

3. click apply, now it change scale (I suppose it seems mutliple with scene scale setting, )

I hope this problem will be solved, but please do not loop problem (seriously hope). eg slove about poli model , but return curve generate mesh problem about size. (I seriously do not hope to report same things again)

 

It happen when I use 3d primitive tool, but choose model from retopo model.  eg if I activate add/splilit and add model from retopo model, it not happen (but 3d coat ask snap to voxel or not)

so when test, activate 3d primitive tool (with change scene scale) ,then select model from retopo model. the size change afrer I apply mesh.

it seems not happen if I select other tool. then add model from retopo model window. do not know the detal reason thoguh. (can not guess)  and I do not know all case which tool combination may cause this scale issue.  

 

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One more about this scale issue when I pick model with 3d primitive tool (it offer ratice or free adjust tool when I add model, then I prefer to use it when add model)

it change default size about same poli model.

if I do not use this tool, 3d coat show the retopo model size, when I added

tempsize.thumb.JPG.6f4c80aaad871a5a9755cac16e6a54ee.JPG

 

 but If I use 3d primitive tool, 3d coat seems auto change the mesh default size. (It is not so serious but I  do not hope ill. do not know why 3d primtiive tool need to change model size of default)  

Though I do not think it is serious. it may better just keep the size which I save as default. (then we may adjust it if we need it )

primsize.thumb.JPG.04f070a26b999124f6cd79c9e3591ec0.JPG

 

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19 hours ago, Grimmy said:

I still can't understand the extrude tools in the low poly room.

1. I really have to hit 'enter' EVERY time I want to commit an extrude? 

In Smart extrude, You can use DblClick LBntMouse to commit an extrude .

2. -I cant seem to select multuiple faces easily.

In Smart extrude, for free selected Face I use Hot Key Cntrl+D. If nothing selected you can select face by Rectangle mode;

In Normal extrude selectin always enable.


3. After manipulating a face there is no quick way to deselect the face and select another face.

In Smart extrude, for free selected Face I use Hot Key Cntrl+D.

In Normal extrude selectin always enable. 

 

4.  In Smart extrude, you can also scaling (by Right button Mouse) and rotation, by hold Shift key.

I'm preparing a little video.

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Hello. I have little problem with 2021.39. I have two monitors. If I work on my main screen, everything works fine. But when I moved program window on my second screen and I closed 3dcoat, I can't opened it again. I have only white window with (Not responding) on my second screen.
I found that the problem is position of the window. The solution is open WindowState.json file in \Documents\3Dcoat\data\Temp and rewrite last position of window to my main screen. After that 3Dcoat open normal on my main screen.
I discover that if I move 3Dcoat window more than half on my secondary screen and close it, then 3D coat stop work.

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Windows Version: 2021.40

Possible bug using the New Curves with the in-closed splines or it is a limitation of the absolute brush using in-closed splines.

Using the Absolute brush (Surface Mode) with a brush type that does not depend upon pen pressure you get separate strokes that blend seamlessly into each other. 

Non-in-closed splines also blend seamlessly. 

Using in-closed Splines you get build up where the two splines intersect. Expected behavior they would blend seamlessly. 

I tried Extrude directions : Vertex Normal and Average Normal.  Both do the same as describe above. I normally use vertex normal but tested the other.

The above is shown in the picture.  

ABS.jpg

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There seems up-date view (render view-port)  bug when I change UV for paint mesh.  3d coat show strange shade mesh after I change UV (eg scale or UV set) and up-date, (in paint room confirm I update uv),   it can not return correctly for a while, (I tried change shade, and return smooth, or hide un-hide mesh, or change room)  then after some steps, it suddenly show correct textures and shade for me .  I do not see any message or info 3d coat try to up-date something. but view suddenly change (usually I swap room some times, then return paint room, now correctly show the textures as smooth shade.

save and re-load solve this issue though. (save with wrong view, then re-open it, it return texture and shading correctly for paint room)

 

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20 hours ago, Baisop said:

Hello. I have little problem with 2021.39. I have two monitors. If I work on my main screen, everything works fine. But when I moved program window on my second screen and I closed 3dcoat, I can't opened it again. I have only white window with (Not responding) on my second screen.
I found that the problem is position of the window. The solution is open WindowState.json file in \Documents\3Dcoat\data\Temp and rewrite last position of window to my main screen. After that 3Dcoat open normal on my main screen.
I discover that if I move 3Dcoat window more than half on my secondary screen and close it, then 3D coat stop work.

Probably different monitors connected to different video cards. One to fast one and other one to the integrated. So it works not good.

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And just a little announcement.

There are several days without updates because I am finishing the incremental auto-updater and version management system. What will we get - no need to download build each time, no need separate install folder for each build, easy and fast switching between different builds in seconds. It is 90% ready, will be released soon. Anyway it takes some time, but it must be done.

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  • Carlosan changed the title to 3DCoat 2024 suggestions
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