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3DCoat 2022 development thread


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48 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

Why does the Scrape tool not remember the "soft scrape" setting from one session to the next ?
-Untick "soft scrape"
-close 3d-Coat
-reopen : "soft scrape" is ticked on.....


settings that are not remembered are so annoying. Someone mentioned others but I'm not sure I remember, I think Cuda and related options ?

Yes, the fact that the settings fly off is annoying.

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@tokikake Scale system:

I see a problem here

The models do not save their scale information (either modified or imported), but that modified information in Sculpt Room (Geometry> edit scene scale) affects all of the other rooms.

Try this: Import a model for PPP on Paint Room, work on it.

Now switch to Sculpt room and scale the scene.
Go back to Paint room, the model changed the size, therefore all the values of the brushes with which you were working no longer work.

You have to set again all of them one by one.

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3 hours ago, MVIC said:

Hi @Carlosan ,

Thanks for the quick reply. I take it you mean you change the shader in the sculpt room? Any you would recommend to pick? 

Hi @Carlosan,

I think I have solved it but I still need your help.

I imported the retopo mesh into Blender. Blender informed me that the model is full of "sharp edges".

I went back to 3d Coat and I noticed this below. All the blue lines are sharp edges. I can remove one edge at a time in 3d Coat 2021 by pressing CTRL + LMB but this will take ages. Is there a way to speed this up? Perhaps an ability to select multiple faces or edges and then remove the sharp edges?

image.thumb.png.9671cc199496c5723161bf666618d75e.png

Removing the sharp edges solves this problem.

image.png.5f44d88d2bab1f247c72e6b2d16a3ca3.png

 

 

 

 

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There are a couple of ways also in 3DC.  One way below:

Select Under the polygroup panel the correct layer

At the bottom of the polygroup panel are icons. The third one on the right is select all faces on that layer. 

Next, top panel  click on the Edges icon.  Now all the edges are now selected.

In the Left bar tool panel.  

Scroll to "Selected"  Choose Clear sharp.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other way.

E-Panel, Select the rectangle laso.

Deselect Ignore Back Faces. Be sure to select Ignore back faces on again when done with your work.

Draw the rectangle around the whole model.

All edges are selected.

Scroll to Selected again and do the same process as before.

In the future it would be best to post these type of questions under the General 3DCoat thread as they are just related to the functions of 3DC tool sets.

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Hi @digman and @Carlosan

Thanks for your help so far!

I have followed your suggestions.

Blender can clear the "sharp edges" quite quickly. However, it does cause the added inconvenience of shifting back and forth with software.

However, I have discovered the following in 3D Coat 2021:

 

If I do suggestion 1 of Digman's, the result is that 3DCoat crashes.

image.thumb.png.291dfb997b8729bab85d0fd879b75a16.png

 

If I do suggestion 2:

The option to "Clear Sharp" does not exist.

image.thumb.png.11552d22e13d3d533958b0d70216d9c9.png

 

Finally, if I now take option 2 and then select "Select Path" then the "Clear Sharp" button does exist right at the bottom.

The "Clear Sharp" button does work.

image.thumb.png.742db15037bd94021f2f5bdab5e8555c.png

 

I have also discovered that these "sharp edges" turn up when I ask 3d Coat to AUTOPO using "Instant Meshes (Manual)" (I use 2 smoothing groups and some edge flow in Instant Meshes).

Thank you so much to both of you for your help in solving this matter quickly.

God bless.

 

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Hi @digman and @Carlosan

Thanks for your help so far!

I have followed your suggestions.

Blender can clear the "sharp edges" quite quickly. However, it does cause the added inconvenience of shifting back and forth with software.

However, I have discovered the following in 3D Coat 2021:

 

If I do suggestion 1 of Digman's, the result is that 3DCoat crashes.

image.thumb.png.291dfb997b8729bab85d0fd879b75a16.png

 

If I do suggestion 2:

The option to "Clear Sharp" does not exist.

image.thumb.png.11552d22e13d3d533958b0d70216d9c9.png

 

Finally, if I now take option 2 and then select "Select Path" then the "Clear Sharp" button does exist right at the bottom.

The "Clear Sharp" button does work.

image.thumb.png.742db15037bd94021f2f5bdab5e8555c.png

 

I have also discovered that these "sharp edges" turn up when I ask 3d Coat to AUTOPO using "Instant Meshes (Manual)" (I use 2 smoothing groups and some edge flow in Instant Meshes).

Thank you so much to both of you for your help in solving this matter quickly.

God bless.

 

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You are in faces mode that is the problem and not edges mode. I mentioned selecting edges mode in my post in the top tool menu bar of 3DC. 

3DC is tool context sensitive. Different tools and functions appear according to the mode you are in.

Edited by digman
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2 hours ago, Carlosan said:

@tokikake Scale system:

I see a problem here

The models do not save their scale information (either modified or imported), but that modified information in Sculpt Room (Geometry> edit scene scale) affects all of the other rooms.

Try this: Import a model for PPP on Paint Room, work on it.

Now switch to Sculpt room and scale the scene.
Go back to Paint room, the model changed the size, therefore all the values of the brushes with which you were working no longer work.

You have to set again all of them one by one.

when you change geometry>edit scene scale, the scale does change accross all the rooms themselves, yes, however, only the sculpt mesh and the retopo mesh are updated.
you need to go to retopo room > update paint mesh in order to apply the new scale to the paint mesh.


About scale, there is a bug that is difficult to reproduce :
When in retopo room, once in a blue moon, not resulting from any action, 3d-Coat will twitch, have a kind of seizure and lose scene scale (accross all the room).
As a result, your retopo
mesh is completely exploded. (My theory as to what happens is that the scale of the sulpt objects is updated a fraction of a second before the retopo mesh, which tries to snap except that the scene scale has changed by a factor of 100 and the vertices do now know where to go (just a theory)).
3d-Coat does give a warning message in the form of a popup when this happens, but I do not remember what the message says.
I have not seen this happen in 2021 (yet), because I only open it to test things briefly.
Undo will usually fix the issue, but I remember a time when the scene was just lost.


EDIT:Retopo mesh explodes, not sculpt mesh as I had written

Edited by Silas Merlin
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@Silas Merlin. 

Yes, when you import a model for PPP the scene scale is changed from the default or whatever scene scale you setup in the Geometry menu in the sculpt room. The model is scaled so it fits in the viewport which changes the scale you set up or the default 3DC scene scale. I believe that is how it works when importing a model for PPP.

I would like the ability to setup a scene scale in preferences and that will be the scale the scene stays at no matter what I import. 3DC would always open with that scene scale. I could changed it in preferences depending upon what I was working on.  We could have a choice in preferences of 3DC's default scale or meters, cm, feet, inches etc etc.

This would make it easier to jump between applications.  Also make 3DC more consistent in how it does scene scale.

Example: I setup the scene scale to match Blenders meter scale.

Import a model for PPP, the scene scale gets changed.  I want it not to change but stay the scale I set it up at.

 

Edited by digman
corrections
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47 minutes ago, digman said:

@Silas Merlin. 

Yes, when you import a model for PPP the scene scale is changed from the default or whatever scene scale you setup in the Geometry menu in the sculpt room. The model is scaled so it fits in the viewport which changes the scale you set up or the default 3DC scene scale. I believe that is how it works when importing a model for PPP.

I would like the ability to setup a scene scale in preferences and that will be the scale the scene stays at no matter what I import. 3DC would always open with that scene scale. I could changed it in preferences depending upon what I was working on.  We could have a choice in preferences of 3DC's default scale or meters, cm, feet, inches etc etc.

This would make it easier to jump between applications.  Also make 3DC more consistent in how it does scene scale.

Example: I setup the scene scale to match Blenders meter scale.

Import a model for PPP, the scene scale gets changed.  I want it not to change but stay the scale I set it up at.

 

3d-Coat has this great feature that makes for perfect exchange with other software as long as you use the obj format as opposed to fbx.

Many years ago, I created a 2x2 meters slab externally. I then imported it in 3d Coat in the sculpt room. 3d-coat asked me if I wanted it to remember the scale of the object for future export.
3d-Coat has remembered it ever since :
When I open 3d-Coat, I do so by opening a start file in .3b format which contains my years old slab, positioned so that the flat top is at 0 height in the scene.
This is my "ground", which allows me to instantly grasp the scale of what I am working on, and to use tools like carve immediately (This tool requires existing geometry in the scene to work).
When I do want a different scale for example if I am going to use FBX, then I simply change the scale in the geometry menu.

I believe you could add such a scene in your splash menu to make your life easier.

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- If you are trying to use any of conditions in paint room from the top menu 3DCoat will check if corresponding layer exists (Cavity/AO) and if not - it will ask you to create it using the Texture menu. This is done to avoid situation when yo chosen condition, but it looks like it does not work.

 

I dunno if this is note after my reported AO condition mask bug, but I must say that AO condition mask(more on lit,shadow) still doesnt work on .24 even with AO layer calculated

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On 8/8/2021 at 7:35 AM, Andrew Shpagin said:

So, there was a version when it worked better? What version if you remember? And what tools are you using? Voxel, surface, paint? What is "puppeteer string"?

Yep, it started working in 2021.18 and after that version, things went south. I have tested voxel and surface, same result in both. Puppeteer strings is that black line that reach from model and goes somewhere into work space. It's visible in attached video with move tool and it seems like it's visible with steady stroke enabled. Anyway, move tool works relly choppy and kinda unpredictable.

By the way, in this video, side buttons on pen stopped reacting, so I zoomed with mouse.

Another thing:

Flat shading doesn't work properly, it stopped working somewhat in V4.9.x and it wasn't fixed since then. That was really helpful feature, used as Clown Pass, so... some fix would be great, or add clown pass as render pass in Render Room.

3DCoat 2021.24[floating, used 3 of 10] 09.08.2021 19_54_38.png

3DCoat 2021.24[floating, used 3 of 10] 09.08.2021 19_53_45.png

Edited by Mihu83
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27 minutes ago, Mihu83 said:

Yep, it started working in 2021.18 and after that version, things went south. I have tested voxel and surface, same result in both. Puppeteer strings is that black line that reach from model and goes somewhere into work space. It's visible in attached video with move tool and it seems like it's visible with steady stroke enabled. Anyway, move tool works relly choppy and kinda unpredictable.

By the way, in this video, side buttons on pen stopped reacting, so I zoomed with mouse.

Another thing:

Flat shading doesn't work properly, it stopped working somewhat in V4.9.x and it wasn't fixed since then. That was really helpful feature, used as Clown Pass, so... some fix would be great, or add clown pass as render pass in Render Room.

 

3DCoat 2021.24[floating, used 3 of 10] 09.08.2021 19_54_38.png

3DCoat 2021.24[floating, used 3 of 10] 09.08.2021 19_53_45.png

Thanks, now understood. Regarding move&shade - we will fix, regarding the speed - I very recommend turning off the Prefs->Viewport->Vertical synchronisation.

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1 hour ago, jimhatama said:

 

- If you are trying to use any of conditions in paint room from the top menu 3DCoat will check if corresponding layer exists (Cavity/AO) and if not - it will ask you to create it using the Texture menu. This is done to avoid situation when yo chosen condition, but it looks like it does not work.

 

I dunno if this is note after my reported AO condition mask bug, but I must say that AO condition mask(more on lit,shadow) still doesnt work on .24 even with AO layer calculated

I will re-check, thanks!

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1 hour ago, Silas Merlin said:

3d-Coat has this great feature that makes for perfect exchange with other software as long as you use the obj format as opposed to fbx.

Many years ago, I created a 2x2 meters slab externally. I then imported it in 3d Coat in the sculpt room. 3d-coat asked me if I wanted it to remember the scale of the object for future export.
3d-Coat has remembered it ever since :
When I open 3d-Coat, I do so by opening a start file in .3b format which contains my years old slab, positioned so that the flat top is at 0 height in the scene.
This is my "ground", which allows me to instantly grasp the scale of what I am working on, and to use tools like carve immediately (This tool requires existing geometry in the scene to work).
When I do want a different scale for example if I am going to use FBX, then I simply change the scale in the geometry menu.

I believe you could add such a scene in your splash menu to make your life easier.

Yes, I load my 3DC Blender scale file when working in the Sculpt room. Then the model imported into the sculpt room comes in at real world scale ( blender meter scale). A 2x2 meter cube comes in at 2x2 meters. I always select keep scale too.  PPP import is a different matter here I do not want my scale changed as it does now.

For anyone interested. Change the scene scale to 100 plus change to meters. This setting matches Blender's meter scale. Save the scene and use for real world sculpting between applications. 

What we need in the measure tool below:

When we change from meters to cm in the measure tool we do not get a true reading of the object size in cm, It changes the measurement unit under the Geometry menu. 

A 6 meter cube becomes a 6 cm cube instead of a 600 cm cube. This will more than help in creating real world objects if the measure tool would not changed the measurement units under the Geometry menu but simply measure the object in whatever measurement unit we setup in the measure tool.

 

 

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Save scale metadata by model, not by scene solved this issue. Any another software (but ZBrush) work in that way. 

is ok if you only sculpt and paint one model, but now with modeling and kitbash rooms everything changed.

What if you are sharing models of different softwares with different scales ? When you dress a scene, some models are own creations, some were downloaded, some done by other artists, some are from kitbash library

the usual is that models have not similar scales.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Carlosan said:

@tokikake Scale system:

I see a problem here

The models do not save their scale information (either modified or imported), but that modified information in Sculpt Room (Geometry> edit scene scale) affects all of the other rooms.

Try this: Import a model for PPP on Paint Room, work on it.

Now switch to Sculpt room and scale the scene.
Go back to Paint room, the model changed the size, therefore all the values of the brushes with which you were working no longer work.

You have to set again all of them one by one.

hmmmm,,, I now really need to test more to get clear workflow for these scale issue to easy import and mix . then return again.. (I usually need assets for character posing or silly animation,  so I render in blender only.. ) ..after confirm each case, I may report about this issue... (because I can not confirm when I see strange issue,  if it is my mistake or 3d coat issue ^^;)

after I up-date 3d coat to 2021 I often see, un-expected scale issue with camera view when append or import mesh  (and sometimes after I add geometry in sculpt room, then try to adjust scale untill apply, I often see, scale control small cube(uniform)  not work anymore,, (locked) but it suddenly return..  and after I apply mesh I often see my grid suddenly disappear then I lost real scale of mesh.. 

anyway to confirm what is wrong I may better test more .. at current  I can not believe myself ^^; ,, (thanks take your time )

Edited by tokikake
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4 hours ago, digman said:

Yes, I load my 3DC Blender scale file when working in the Sculpt room. Then the model imported into the sculpt room comes in at real world scale ( blender meter scale). A 2x2 meter cube comes in at 2x2 meters. I always select keep scale too.  PPP import is a different matter here I do not want my scale changed as it does now.

For anyone interested. Change the scene scale to 100 plus change to meters. This setting matches Blender's meter scale. Save the scene and use for real world sculpting between applications. 

What we need in the measure tool below:

When we change from meters to cm in the measure tool we do not get a true reading of the object size in cm, It changes the measurement unit under the Geometry menu. 

A 6 meter cube becomes a 6 cm cube instead of a 600 cm cube. This will more than help in creating real world objects if the measure tool would not changed the measurement units under the Geometry menu but simply measure the object in whatever measurement unit we setup in the measure tool.

 

 

digman,  do you set voxel per unit, like 100  with set unit as meter, but set scen scale as 1?  if you set so,  3d coat change measure unit...

when I keep to set same value (voxel unit = scene scale),, 3d coat measure tool show same size (1grid ) for measurement unit, and my prefer unit (about our case we set as meter)

but after all, I often see, when I append mesh (by primitive or use default model), I really often need to change size to fit current scene... (do not know reason though)

if I change the scene scale as 100,,, I think I may need to change voxel per unit as 100. (then set unit as meter /cm / mm), so I can  keep 1 unit as 1 meter/cm/mm,   I think voxel per unit relate with all unit of 3d coat so if I change it, I need to change scene scale = voxel per unit number. I suppose. though do not know dev recommend it or not.

Edited by tokikake
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1 hour ago, tokikake said:

digman,  do you set voxel per unit, like 100  with set unit as meter, but set scen scale as 1?  if you set so,  3d coat change measure unit...

when I keep to set same value (voxel unit = scene scale),, 3d coat measure tool show same size (1grid ) for measurement unit, and my prefer unit (about our case we set as meter)

but after all, I often see, when I append mesh (by primitive or use default model), I really often need to change size to fit current scene... (do not know reason though)

if I change the scene  unit scale as 100,,, I think I may need to change voxel per unit as 100. (then set unit as meter /cm / mm), so I can  keep 1 unit as 1 meter/cm/mm,   I think voxel per unit relate with all unit of 3d coat so if I change it, I need to change unit scale = voxel per unit number. I suppose. though do not know dev recommend it or not.

actually I use wrong word,, (not means scene scale but I mean unit-scale need to set same number as voxel per unit  to get the masure size correctly (and grid unit). I do not touch scene scale at all ^^;   I really do not know scene scale VS unit scale usage of this aprication. 

do not hope to change scene scale but hope to keep it as 1.00 for every scene... .  

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Then with recent versions I really see this issue.

I can not "scale" the import mesh (not apply yet) to fit for current scene any more.. it change with the improt mesh size, but suddenly 3d coat stop to scale the mesh any more..

stopscaling.thumb.JPG.12be5b267e289d25c9a68d06a11291d0.JPG

 

it suddenly work again (with re-import mesh again without commit apply) etc,, but really annoying issue for me now.. I do not change any setting of tool, so do not know why the scale widget stop to work.. (x, y, z scale still work), but sometimes it stop to work all axis,, only translate to one axis...I can still input "scale" as value though..

To return scale widget, I need to move only gizmo, then can use scale widget again.. (the small center white cube..)  do not know if it relate with camera view or z depth etc.. 

Edited by tokikake
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And the problem is, (at least for me), when I change voxel per unit >> it effect grid (which usually used to check the length without use measure tool aproximately, or snap to grid)

it change each grid unit ..  There is no merit to change grid size along with voxel per unit , why grid distance change with voxel per unit?  to return it I need to change unit scale too.

gridsize1_00.thumb.JPG.abdc3e43f61fe9d0bbd8ce0180b4ef79.JPG

as you see, I hope to set 1 grid = 1 meter.. (then devide 10 sub grid)

but I hope to change voxel count for per unit .. then change voxels per unit like 10, now 3d coat change grid distance like this

griddensity.thumb.JPG.b7e83601c8d613c7abb856679f9ccff8.JPG

Is there any reason (which may be useful for user) to change grid distance with voxel per unit ?   we use grid to get the mesh size,, so if it change with voxel per unit, 

I need to change grid density .or Unit scale,,  I think grid distance should not change with voxel count per unit... (there is no relation I think)

Though I use Unit scale = voxel per unit, to return grid distance correctly , but I do not know it is good way or not.. (Unit scale may effect something I suppose)

unitscale.thumb.JPG.8272265130493581c17830e1ecf50711.JPG

To get gird distance (eg 1 meter), and set Unit as 1 meter for measurement,  but change voxel count to get reansable dense for voxel,, what is correct way for 3d coat?

Edited by tokikake
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3DCoat-2021-24
Sun Aug 8 21:47:20 2021
 
- Picker tool (that may be activated via the hotkey V) now works correctly over the sculpt layers. It also got additional functionality. First, yo may choose to pick the color from the screen always in the tool settings. Second, even if this option disabled, tap V second time over that same color and second tap will pick the color from the screen. The first tap takes the color from the layer if available.
 
------
Can you just put that function as an option?
It is very confusing when using it.
Reminds me of substance painter's horrible color picker and I want to turn it off...
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Hey ho,

found some issues:

QuickAccess

Add preset to QuickAccess slots doesnt work. After choosing the Slot X Nothing happens to the Quick Panel
I am only able to add the Default Tools in QuickAccess 


Modeling unlinked Sculpt Mesh issue 2021.25:

1 create a Primitive (PolyGroup1), 
2 mesh -> sculpt mesh -> unlink -> PolyGroup1_unlinked is created
3 create new PolyGroup2
4 do the same like PolyGroup1 -> only PolyGroup1 creates copies of itself or nothing happens but every time PolyGroup2_unlinked never will be created


In another project, all previous unlinked sculpt meshes disappear as soon as I create a new one. Unfortunately, I cannot reproduce that. And it's not undo-able.

But important is, this bug makes the Modeling-Sculpt Mesh Feature unusable :(

 

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2 hours ago, Yousung said:
3DCoat-2021-24
Sun Aug 8 21:47:20 2021
 
- Picker tool (that may be activated via the hotkey V) now works correctly over the sculpt layers. It also got additional functionality. First, yo may choose to pick the color from the screen always in the tool settings. Second, even if this option disabled, tap V second time over that same color and second tap will pick the color from the screen. The first tap takes the color from the layer if available.
 
------
Can you just put that function as an option?
It is very confusing when using it.
Reminds me of substance painter's horrible color picker and I want to turn it off...

If you uncheck the box there is no confusion because then there is only one action  pick colour from the pixel on the screen itself.

Pick from screen is very useful because it allows you to pick colour even on vertex painting (which did not work well before if at all)
Pick from layer is also useful because it allows you to paint in smooth shading mode and still be able to pick the unshaded colour that is actually painted on the layer.

Now I think this could be made better :
When you choose to pick from screen, it would be more interesting if Coat would still attempt to pick depth, roughness and metal from the layer if it exists.

Also, when you choose to pick from layer, there is the option to pick depth or not, but something is missing : the option to pick metal/roughness or not ?

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  • Carlosan changed the title to 3DCoat 2022 development thread

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