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3DCoat 2022 development thread


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3dcoat is messy. too many icons, too many duplicate similar functions, many functions found several times in menus. it makes the software cumbersome to use.
more than 80 icons on the left for voxels. it's too much. I am convinced that the software would benefit from it being better tidied up. you can customize, but when you want to reinstall a new version, the layout is added to the new page. and it must be said, there are a lot of icons that we almost used. the next functions, that will make even more icons and even more menus?

sometimes the translations in French are more incomprehensible than in English. often, I wonder if I will not use the software in English instead of French. we gain in ease of use when it's simplified better than when there are a ton of functions in all directions

I know you can make your own room for yourself but removing what is duplicated or doesn't change anything is not a bad idea

unless the goal is to have functions or icons to give the impression that there are always more functions than among competitors...

comfort of use is important

too many examples that are useless and do not make you want to... there are some everywhere in the software.
this is from the opening, we immediately understand that it will be heavy.

I say it because it would be really good to do it lightly. it's because zbrush is heavy that I chose 3dcoat. now, where is the difference?

 

3dc.thumb.JPG.1fd188d09a3fdfbd6df5c9f3e92655b0.JPG

 

 

Edited by ludo_si
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another example, the icons are made so as not to have to read the functions. it's visual so it's faster. here we have both, it takes up space unnecessarily. can't we have the name that appears when we pass the mouse over the icon?

It may seem like details, but it really isn't. the new brush engine, you really have to want it. too much is not better than not enough.

can't we choose to decrease their size? or keep the icons without the icon names? Ideas, possibilities, it must be possible.

we eat with our eyes, I think we work with our eyes too

 

I don't know others but whenever I want to start a voxel project or open a voxel project, the 3d grid is gone.
I have to go to print area for it to appear again. it's embarassing

 

blender 3d has exactly the same problem although it's better now

3dc2.JPG

Edited by ludo_si
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Carlosan
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Yousung was awarded the badge 'Helpful' and 1 points.

23 minutes ago, ludo_si said:

or keep the icons without the icon names?

1919059790_bandicam2022-02-1416-37-03-600.thumb.jpg.764283e6fddc9bcebc9769650de7a967.jpg

 

The upper part of the toolbox (next to the E-Panel)
You can change it by clicking the 'T' icon.

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13 minutes ago, Yousung said:

1919059790_bandicam2022-02-1416-37-03-600.thumb.jpg.764283e6fddc9bcebc9769650de7a967.jpg

 

The upper part of the toolbox (next to the E-Panel)
You can change it by clicking the 'T' icon.

Hi all!

Now There are really double tools in the Clay/Draw Palette. As you can see in the picture. So I agree with @ludo_si:)  Example: Clamp layer Depth in the Paintroom does nothing. 3DCoat can do so many things! A bit of decluttering and structure would be really good.  

A default room setting for startup would be nice!

Freezing and Unfreezing is good in .05! Black Mask, very good to see.

How about masking for voxel brushes, is that possible?

Greetings to all.

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50 minutes ago, ludo_si said:

3dcoat is messy. too many icons, too many duplicate similar functions, many functions found several times in menus. it makes the software cumbersome to use.
more than 80 icons on the left for voxels. it's too much. I am convinced that the software would benefit from it being better tidied up. you can customize, but when you want to reinstall a new version, the layout is added to the new page. and it must be said, there are a lot of icons that we almost used. the next functions, that will make even more icons and even more menus?

sometimes the translations in French are more incomprehensible than in English. often, I wonder if I will not use the software in English instead of French. we gain in ease of use when it's simplified better than when there are a ton of functions in all directions

When you simplify, you remove functionalities.

Blender's solution seems to be to hide functions within panels that are themselves hidden until you meet the right conditions and even then you need to find a tiny icon that is not obvious. To me that is a horrible solution.
3d-Coat also has a few tools in retopo room that are hidden from the left panel until you select the corresponding tool. To me that is a mistake. The solution of having tool-specific functions in the tool options panel like in the rest of 3d-coat is much better in my opinion.

There was a time when tools and buttons were simply greyed out in a software's UI until the right conditions were met. That was an ideal solution to me.

French translation is only partial and yes it makes it more difficult both for the user to learn and to teach them. But then again it is a choice for the user.
maybe it would help a little bit if the english name of each tool was written at the top of hover tips ?

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Seems there is some web caching problem and 2022.05 changes not shown, so posting it there

3DCoat-2022-05
- Fixed FBX importer channels usage recognition (correct textures assignment).

- Fixed problem related to "Unfreeze all" in Sculpt room

- Fixed problem of presets compatibility between 2021 & 2022.

- Fixed windows-style window that arrears sometimes as warning (for example fill warning).

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38 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:

When you simplify, you remove functionalities.

Blender's solution seems to be to hide functions within panels that are themselves hidden until you meet the right conditions and even then you need to find a tiny icon that is not obvious. To me that is a horrible solution.
3d-Coat also has a few tools in retopo room that are hidden from the left panel until you select the corresponding tool. To me that is a mistake. The solution of having tool-specific functions in the tool options panel like in the rest of 3d-coat is much better in my opinion.

There was a time when tools and buttons were simply greyed out in a software's UI until the right conditions were met. That was an ideal solution to me.

French translation is only partial and yes it makes it more difficult both for the user to learn and to teach them. But then again it is a choice for the user.
maybe it would help a little bit if the english name of each tool was written at the top of hover tips ?

 

4 hours ago, ludo_si said:

3dcoat is messy. too many icons, too many duplicate similar functions, many functions found several times in menus. it makes the software cumbersome to use.
more than 80 icons on the left for voxels. it's too much. I am convinced that the software would benefit from it being better tidied up. you can customize, but when you want to reinstall a new version, the layout is added to the new page. and it must be said, there are a lot of icons that we almost used. the next functions, that will make even more icons and even more menus?

sometimes the translations in French are more incomprehensible than in English. often, I wonder if I will not use the software in English instead of French. we gain in ease of use when it's simplified better than when there are a ton of functions in all directions

I know you can make your own room for yourself but removing what is duplicated or doesn't change anything is not a bad idea

unless the goal is to have functions or icons to give the impression that there are always more functions than among competitors...

comfort of use is important

too many examples that are useless and do not make you want to... there are some everywhere in the software.
this is from the opening, we immediately understand that it will be heavy.

I say it because it would be really good to do it lightly. it's because zbrush is heavy that I chose 3dcoat. now, where is the difference?

 

3dc.thumb.JPG.1fd188d09a3fdfbd6df5c9f3e92655b0.JPG

 

 

Guys, you are right to some degree, but in the end, no UI can reflect functionality without hurting your eyes, some do it better then others. 

In all the apps i deeply learn -  I learn all hot keys and hide 80% of the panels. "expert mode", large viewport in the middle and all is hidden, this is the only solution, there is no way around it in my opinion. 

The detailed description on hover tools was a lot of help to me and still is, as i am still learning the app.
I do agree about the duplicated icons, that should be address immediately. very confusing. 

Created my first hotkeys in the "space" quick menu, tried to drag and drop them into the numbers. had to read each one to know its the right name because of duplicated icons.

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3 hours ago, ludo_si said:

another example, the icons are made so as not to have to read the functions. it's visual so it's faster. here we have both, it takes up space unnecessarily. can't we have the name that appears when we pass the mouse over the icon?

It may seem like details, but it really isn't. the new brush engine, you really have to want it. too much is not better than not enough.

can't we choose to decrease their size? or keep the icons without the icon names? Ideas, possibilities, it must be possible.

we eat with our eyes, I think we work with our eyes too

 

I don't know others but whenever I want to start a voxel project or open a voxel project, the 3d grid is gone.
I have to go to print area for it to appear again. it's embarassing

 

blender 3d has exactly the same problem although it's better now

3dc2.JPG

You may think it's unnecessary. I often forget what icon is for what tool. Plus for new people they wouldn't know at all. We had this discussion when the icons were first added.

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16 minutes ago, philnolan3d said:

You may think it's unnecessary. I often forget what icon is for what tool. Plus for new people they wouldn't know at all. We had this discussion when the icons were first added.

I remember a survey, I believe it was done by Autodesk, resulting in the conclusion that functions are most readable when displayed with both icon and function name.

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Hello guys,

Using the 2022-05 build I'm having an issue with padding not behaving as expected :

Few issues, maybe having layer 0 off and opening an old saved file (4.8.44) led to these issues ?

First one : seams clearly visible when painting (no realtime padding seems being made)


image.png.b6d02ce19d2161a368a431ed927215da.png

image.thumb.png.a844d3789f2a72021ab20868d05a42a5.png

Please notice the beige border near red painted areas along islands borders.

Second one, as you can see, I can paint outside of the uv islands (never could do that before, usually I'm constrained in the existing islands). Here's what I have in 3DCoat's Texture Editor window :

image.png.1e4690cb7cf83ed248b16e2c91ec045c.png

Anyone knows how this can happen and how I may avoid it ? (I've just sent the issued 3dcoat file to Andrew)
I'll revert back to 4.8.44 so no worries I can pursue my own work, but I think this issue might affect compatibility with old files so it was worth warning you about it ;)

Edited by Vexod14
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2022-05, when using "eat detail" modifier at tight space it messes up the surface.  Is it a bug or is there some other setting to prevent it?  I don't remember it did that when the new brush engine was available in v 4.9 as beta tools.

 

Edited by animk
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10 hours ago, Vexod14 said:

Hello guys,

Using the 2022-05 build I'm having an issue with padding not behaving as expected :

Few issues, maybe having layer 0 off and opening an old saved file (4.8.44) led to these issues ?

First one : seams clearly visible when painting (no realtime padding seems being made)


image.png.b6d02ce19d2161a368a431ed927215da.png

image.thumb.png.a844d3789f2a72021ab20868d05a42a5.png

Please notice the beige border near red painted areas along islands borders.

Second one, as you can see, I can paint outside of the uv islands (never could do that before, usually I'm constrained in the existing islands). Here's what I have in 3DCoat's Texture Editor window :

image.png.1e4690cb7cf83ed248b16e2c91ec045c.png

Anyone knows how this can happen and how I may avoid it ? (I've just sent the issued 3dcoat file to Andrew)
I'll revert back to 4.8.44 so no worries I can pursue my own work, but I think this issue might affect compatibility with old files so it was worth warning you about it ;)

The problem is the huge intersection between islands. Need to move (eye?) into separate UV set.

image.png

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7 minutes ago, animk said:

 

2022-05, when using "eat detail" modifier at tight space it messes up the surface.  Is it a bug or is there some other setting to prevent it?  I don't remember it did that when the new brush engine was available in v 4.9 as beta tools.

 

 

Please send me the scene to test

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14 minutes ago, animk said:

Scene attached.  Thanks.

test.3b 51.38 MB · 0 downloads

I looked at the file, seems Eat details have problem on edges because it is Projection-based tool. It projects all the local geometry on the pen as picture, relaxes the image pixels color, then restores back. So, it achieves valence-independent relaxation in the pen. But on tight places this algo may not work well because upper regions of geometry projected on pen in pen's normal direction. The solution in your case is to set Pick normal method to View direction.

image.png

Please test it, maybe it is worth to set View direction as default in this brush?

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1 hour ago, Andrew Shpagin said:

The problem is the huge intersection between islands. Need to move (eye?) into separate UV set.

image.png

This is attached to a separate material ID so no reason to shift UV coordinates. But this could explain why I'm able to paint outside islands and "solve" a first issue. UV layouts should always stay separate using their matID
The same file in 4.8.44 shows seam issue if I save it with layer 0 off and reopen it, but once I toggle back layer 0 I no longer have the seam issue. In the latest version, once it breaks, it breaks and you can't retrieve a workable (except using source control like SVN/Dropbox, etc)

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I've reported this error & crash several times across several releases through the crash reporter. An instability message pops up followed by this window. Happens while opening a file from saved location.

error.jpg

Edited by ThomasJohann
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3 hours ago, Vexod14 said:

This is attached to a separate material ID so no reason to shift UV coordinates. But this could explain why I'm able to paint outside islands and "solve" a first issue. UV layouts should always stay separate using their matID
The same file in 4.8.44 shows seam issue if I save it with layer 0 off and reopen it, but once I toggle back layer 0 I no longer have the seam issue. In the latest version, once it breaks, it breaks and you can't retrieve a workable (except using source control like SVN/Dropbox, etc)

Just separate intersecting items to other texture in UV room. Anyway, intersecting islands (in this way) will produce problems. Generally, intersection allowed, but in case if it designed that way (for example reusing similar features).

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  • Carlosan changed the title to 3DCoat 2022 development thread

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