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3DCoat 2024 development thread


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11 hours ago, Henry Townshend said:

Actually I think we can do better than Blender. There is a very popular Blender add-on called "MACHIN3TOOLS". It has some extra features that're not built in Blender. Every Blender user I know uses this add-on.

For example, it can slide a vertex on the surface:

 

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18 minutes ago, Kodra said:

Actually I think we can do better than Blender. There is a very popular Blender add-on called "MACHIN3TOOLS". It has some extra features that're not built in Blender. Every Blender user I know uses this add-on.

For example, it can slide a vertex on the surface:

 

you can slide vertices on the surface in 3dcoat ... just not follow an edge .... but the amount of editing one vertex is minimal ...

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9 hours ago, Kodra said:

Actually I think we can do better than Blender. There is a very popular Blender add-on called "MACHIN3TOOLS". It has some extra features that're not built in Blender. Every Blender user I know uses this add-on.

For example, it can slide a vertex on the surface:

 

Hey, jeah I'm aware of Machine Tools, I use it also, can't imagine using Blender without it ever again. But I did not know about Surface Slide, pretty interesting!

However, as @MJonathanstated, Vertex Slide along edge is a pretty agnostic to specific modeling package. It is a global concept/function present in all of these packages, it is nothing special, nor anything that needs to do "better" or outperform the "competition" really.  It is just a very basic feature. It does something entirely different also than Surface Slide.

Vertex Slide is needed to alter vertex positions while keeping edge flows intact. While it is not always necessary to place vertices with mathematical precision, there are frequent cases where you don't wanna destroy already carefully layed out existing edge flow. This is jus one example, you basically can't slide that vertex vertically without destroying the vertical alignment of that edge:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rrixcm7uzzw79p9/2023-02-19 11-57-08.mp4?dl=0

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47 minutes ago, Gorbatovsky said:

Can change tool Move add modifier Ctrl. If Ctrl active ->  Do Slide Vertex along edges.

It's a nice idea. However, I think users would not like to switch to Move tool explicitly just for this. As users during retopo need to use a lot of different tools where they freely can and need to move verts around (Add/Split, Points to Polygons, Quads, etc) I think having this CTRL key modifer globally for vertex sliding would be more beneficial.

Otherwise users need to do a tool switch only for this basic tasks. What about selecting a vertex and hitting "G" twice to perform the slide? :) Jus adapting Blender way. But this would also include switching to Select tool first, so again, interrupting workflow.

My personal preference would be the global modifer key. It would be much more efficient. Could be as soon as I drag a vertex around, hit CTRL afterwards to edge constraint it, with any tool you can freely drag vertices with (Quads, Split/Add, Points to Polys). That would fit best with 3D Coat's artistic and "hand's on" pleasent ways of doing this. But maybe this interferes with something I am not thinking about. But if not, it would be awesome!

Edited by Henry Townshend
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18 hours ago, Elemeno said:

Looks like this case was working correctly for many years, I tested even on 2021... This is because back face also created. This is really not good and needs to be fixed even if it is not related just to 2023.01.

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27 minutes ago, Gorbatovsky said:

We'll discuss tomorrow at the meeting.
Honestly, I don't want to add a new tool.
We are sometimes scolded by designers for the fact that there are already a lot of buttons.

i completely understand , even if slide edge is renamed as just slide ,i do find that alot of features are hidden or left in areas that dont seem correct like bake curvature and ambient occlusion being in Edit ...

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Hey, Congrats to Coat2023!!

The Factures/Vertextures stopped working. While you can Paint with Color and Glossiness, the Textures are not applied in Factures Room. 

Please add Opacity Slider in Factures Room.

The new Tabs look very good.

Script recording Button in Modelling very good, but No recording for 2D Primitives. I will try Core instead.

Edited by Ctc_nick
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5 minutes ago, Ctc_nick said:

Hey, Congrats to Coat2023!!

The Factures/Vertextures stopped working. While you can Paint with Color and Glossiness, the Textures are not applied in Factures Room. 

Please add Opacity Slider in Factures Room.

The new Tabs look very good.

Script recording Button in Modelling very good, but No recording for 2D Primitives. I will try Core instead.

--> I was in Voxel Mode. Solution: Switch to Surface Mode if Factures are not applied.

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On 2/19/2023 at 4:07 PM, Gorbatovsky said:

We'll discuss tomorrow at the meeting.
Honestly, I don't want to add a new tool.
We are sometimes scolded by designers for the fact that there are already a lot of buttons.

I can echo what these other members are saying about the need for vertex sliding. It is something I used all the time when modeling in 3ds Max and it is hard to imagine modeling without it. The CTRL (or perhaps SHIFT) key modifier while RMB dragging a vertex, should work with all the Retopo tools that have the RMB vertex movement functionality (QUADS, ADD/SPLIT, POINTS TO POLYGONS, STROKE, SMART RETOPO). It helps the user keep the topological flow intact, but make an adjustment of a vertex position along an existing edge-loop.

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On 2/19/2023 at 4:37 PM, Elemeno said:

i completely understand , even if slide edge is renamed as just slide ,i do find that alot of features are hidden or left in areas that dont seem correct like bake curvature and ambient occlusion being in Edit ...

I think the reason the Bake curvature and occlusion were moved to the EDIT menu was because the Paint Tools were moved to the Sculpt workspace, and there is currently no TEXTURES menu in the Sculpt workspace. Andrew tried to place those in a menu that already existed in the Paint and Sculpt Workspaces.

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On 2/19/2023 at 4:07 PM, Gorbatovsky said:

We'll discuss tomorrow at the meeting.
Honestly, I don't want to add a new tool.
We are sometimes scolded by designers for the fact that there are already a lot of buttons.

The addition of new tools is never a bad thing, so if anyone complains about that, keep in mind that they are in a very tiny minority. The real issue is having a lot of individual tools, when much of the functionality can often be incorporated into one (this helps de-clutter the UI and make the workflow more efficient). An example of this is Maya's Quad Draw, toolset...a lot of 3DCoat's Retopo tools are combined into one tool, in Maya...by simply using different hotkeys on the fly. This exists somewhat in the POINTS to POLYGONS tool, where a number of tools are stored in CTRL and CTRL + SHIFT menus. This way, a user can invoke the functionality of many tools, on the fly, by using hotkeys and yet still stay in the POINTS to POLYGONS tool. This was why I asked if these menus could be added to the SMART RETOPO toolset, also.  

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I still believe this software is being developed for an elite group or artists who actually do use all the functions and we are paying to test the software for them :D

I also believe that Andrew and the dev team is not finishing or polishing the software so we keep complaining and they keep their jobs :D

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Just now, Koray said:

Andrew and the dev team is not finishing or polishing the software

We fix bugs quickly.
In addition, we try to take into account the suggestions of designers.
For example, more than 20 changes were made to the Smart Retopo tool in 2023.

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53 minutes ago, Koray said:

I still believe this software is being developed for an elite group or artists who actually do use all the functions and we are paying to test the software for them :D

I also believe that Andrew and the dev team is not finishing or polishing the software so we keep complaining and they keep their jobs :D

But their strategy is absolutely failing: It's really a very useful tool for everyone! :D

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Hello, dear 3d-coat team.
In the last release I've got strange issue with stroke. simple surface sculpt draw tool make very wired stroke when the brush is a certain size. Smaller and biger size works fine but on some size value stroke completely ruined. Below the screenshot with the problem. Also it not depends on a device, mouse and tablet make same reasault, and it don't depends on surface or voxel mode.
d0e216d1e108175eb3c7fdfe4c6967f6.png

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5 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

We fix bugs quickly.
In addition, we try to take into account the suggestions of designers.
For example, more than 20 changes were made to the Smart Retopo tool in 2023.

See, I made 3 request threads and many posts about bugs and suggestions and no dev responds but here I made one making fun and I got a reply :D

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26 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

We try to get 3DC bug free and take note of suggestions.

But nothing is done automatically, there is already a development agenda.

Basically, core developers have other priorities.

We too have other priorities you are right. 

 

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1 hour ago, Koray said:

See, I made 3 request threads and many posts about bugs and suggestions and no dev responds but here I made one making fun and I got a reply :D

I see some open software/linux systems mentality in 3D-Coat development... Not quite, but many similarities. Making tons of "fancy" and cool tools that are often half baked and not fixing tool that were working previously. Sometimes I have feeling that 3D-Coat is developed for fun and with hobby artist in mind rather than people working in, let say game industry, etc.

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7 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:

We fix bugs quickly.
In addition, we try to take into account the suggestions of designers.
For example, more than 20 changes were made to the Smart Retopo tool in 2023.

I'm not denying that bugs are fixed but sometimes other things are screwed along the process.

Some things are not working since V4 - flat shading for example, which have been used as clown pass. It's broken for a very long time. Unoftunately, there is no dedicated Clown Pass in Render Room settings, so... that's that.

I'm currently using V4 which is more reliable for me for now, but some things are pissing me off, like curves in cut off tool that often are not working on "outside" of the object.

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52 minutes ago, Mihu83 said:

I see some open software/linux systems mentality in 3D-Coat development... Not quite, but many similarities. Making tons of "fancy" and cool tools that are often half baked and not fixing tool that were working previously. Sometimes I have feeling that 3D-Coat is developed for fun and with hobby artist in mind rather than people working in, let say game industry, etc.

ah see the problem is ... you've only scratched the surface...

 

when you use 3dcoat with other tools you speed up your workflow loads!

bbut i understand what you mean , topology gives weird bakes ... the shading is blotchy

tools arent as reliable as others.. voxels destroy the edge flow of anything .

but what you do have is a great software for building things fast..

 

i have no idea who said too many tools is bad because the more tools at my disposal the better ...

if they can make surface mode have quad only and tools that can polish properly .. then it would be alot better!

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19 hours ago, Koray said:

We too have other priorities you are right. 

 

I think what Carlos meant was that (based on user feedback/input/requests) development has to prioritize requests, but always working to fix bugs/issues that are reported. Bug reports always have the highest priority, but sometimes we may have to repeat a bug report once in a while, because the developers are so busy

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  • Carlosan changed the title to 3DCoat 2024 suggestions
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