3DCoat 2024 development thread

[Carlosan]

broken how ?

[jdoublej]

I'm having performance issues in lasso mode with plane and sphere brushes, which are super nice tools for chiseling forms.  In 2024.18 the performance is much better with these same tools.  Glad my presets work tho, thanks guys for fixing that.

[Stefka]

Hi 

I updated to the latest beta version 2024.22.

After trying to start the program there is an error message

"Die Ausführung des Codes kann nicht fortgesetzt werden, da tiff.dll nicht gefunden wurde. Durch eine Neuinstallation des Programms kann das Problem möglicherweise behoben werden."

My translation for you:

"Execution of the code is not possible because tiff.dll is not found. Reinstalling the programm may solve the problem."

Programm can´t be executed any more. Is there another solution except reinstalling the programm?

Thank you, best regards

Walter

[Andrew Shpagin]

3 hours ago, Stefka said:

Hi 

I updated to the latest beta version 2024.22.

After trying to start the program there is an error message

"Die Ausführung des Codes kann nicht fortgesetzt werden, da tiff.dll nicht gefunden wurde. Durch eine Neuinstallation des Programms kann das Problem möglicherweise behoben werden."

My translation for you:

"Execution of the code is not possible because tiff.dll is not found. Reinstalling the programm may solve the problem."

Programm can´t be executed any more. Is there another solution except reinstalling the programm?

Thank you, best regards

Walter

please check if there is tiff.dll is in the install folder "C:\Program Files\3DCoat-2024" 
I checked the installer, and the updater - both created it.

 

Is it Coat or Textura? Have you used installer or updater?

 

Anyway, I attached it, but need to understand why it is missing...

tiff.dll

[Mighty Pea]

I sent a two bug reports with a file to support, but haven't heard back. One's pretty bad, where deleting one layer also deletes other layers, so I'd at least like to hear if a: the file was received, and b: if it can be reproduced on your end!

[Stefka]

Hello @Andrew Shpagin

Thank you for the reply.

I used the update function within 3DCoat. I updated from 2024.20 to 2024.22

The file tiff.dll is not in the corresponding folder.

After copying the tiff.dll to the coresponding folder, there is at first a long message that the previous session could not be started, due to different possible reasons. When removing the message, the program starts correct. The next following start works flawless.

Astonishiong is, that the program reports that the blender APP link is outdated. I updated the App Link already in the Version 2024.20. (This is just for your informations, after updating, it works fine)

Now version 2024.22 program start is working

[Carlosan]

1 hour ago, Mighty Pea said:

I sent a two bug reports with a file to support, but haven't heard back. One's pretty bad, where deleting one layer also deletes other layers, so I'd at least like to hear if a: the file was received, and b: if it can be reproduced on your end!

Please resend that mail to Andrew Shpagin at <andrewshpagin@gmail.com>

[Andrew Shpagin]

2 hours ago, Mighty Pea said:

I sent a two bug reports with a file to support, but haven't heard back. One's pretty bad, where deleting one layer also deletes other layers, so I'd at least like to hear if a: the file was received, and b: if it can be reproduced on your end!

Please excuse me, I asked the support team, and they did not find it. As Carlos stated, please send it to me directly.

[Oleg Shapov]

11 hours ago, Mighty Pea said:

One's pretty bad, where deleting one layer also deletes other layers

I answered your letter yesterday. And today I wrote the answer.

[Mighty Pea]

15 hours ago, Oleg Shapov said:

I answered your letter yesterday. And today I wrote the answer.

For the sake of starting a discussion about it: Deleting a layer that's clipped by another also deletes the clip layer. This seems crazy to me, especially in light of the absense of any visual indicator (as there is in Photoshop).
I don't think this should ever happen, especially when the layer being deleted isn't even the clip layer itself, it's a layer _referencing_ the clip layer. This is a recipe for disaster, there should never be silent deletion of data that wasn't specifically requested.

my email also had a second bugreport in it, namely that I regularly get the message ' 'you're attempting to paint over an invisible layer when attempting to paint on a (visible) layer's mask. This also happened in the file I sent you, and should hopefully be reproducable on your end in order to fix it.

[Oleg Shapov]

2 hours ago, Mighty Pea said:

you're attempting to paint over an invisible layer

I answered you in a letter

[Mighty Pea]

You did just now yes, but... it's confusing. You're saying this:

The point being, I'm trying to paint into the mask, not the layer!
Am I misunderstanding you? I want to paint into the mask, and on some layers (and only some), it tells me 'you're attempting to paint over an invisible layer'. Which, yes... I am, it's a mask, it's not directly visible!

[liok]

Hi, whenever I add a tool preset, I get this error message. The solution for now is just to run Coat in Admin I think.


More annoying, I see now that alphas fail to be selected by tool presets. You save or update a preset with an alpha, and whener you pick this tool preset, the alpha is the first default one, instead of the one displayed in the preset thumbnail:


If I manually re-select the correct alpha, it works, but the tool preset fail to select it.

[Carlosan]

You can Run as admin as Compatibility on shortcut Properties.

Testing v2024.22, I cant replicate this issue, sorry
Presets are working as expected.

[liok]

I have a systematic crash after deleting one or a few AUTOPO curves guide. (selecting one point and pressing Delete.)

Also sometimes when re-running the Autopo, all the previously drawn curves are gone.
The density painting step is ignored in some cases and skip directly to the curve draw step, and in this cases it seems like the resulting poly count is 10 times lower than what was input.
Basically it seems possible to AUTOPO a simple mesh like a foot, but for the entire chest of a character it's impossible, without curves it's too random, and with curves it always generates something extremely low poly:

Example file: https://www.dropbox.com/t/seIh90vELSR5l2Vn

[liok]

The Unwrap algorithm seems unable to tackle a shape that's a bit curved, like one side of a thigh / leg. We have to export fbx to blender, seams from island, unwrap, export back fbx to retopo room.
Coat unwrap:

Blender unwrap:

[liok]

Wait no that only works when going for a decimated low poly.
If we have a quad based retopo mesh we cannot polish it in Blender, as there is no way to prevent Coat from triangulating the imported fbx, which destroys the UVs...

[liok]

There's a massive issue with the retopo room, whatever you do, retopo objects keep getting emptied. I don't know what does it, but something is wrong. If you just work, normally, another object will eventually get emptied. And you can't lock them, to make sure they are safe. You can't export and re-import them as they get triangulated and Uvs get destroyed.
So at the moment it's really not safe to use Coat for production, it hasn't been tested enough.
Someone should just produce some asste with it, and note all these massive issues, and prioritize this over any new feature.
I've been using Coat professionally for around 5 years, I know so many details about it, but there's still massive blocker to just use it normally.
Sculpting is stable now, but retopo, bake, and paint is really not advisable, given the amount of pitfalls.
Working on a retopo object will systematically silently delete (empty) the previous ones, somehow.
Baking will silently fail if the active sculpt object has symmetry ect...
 

[Andrew Shpagin]

8 hours ago, liok said:

The Unwrap algorithm seems unable to tackle a shape that's a bit curved, like one side of a thigh / leg. We have to export fbx to blender, seams from island, unwrap, export back fbx to retopo room.
Coat unwrap:

Blender unwrap:

Please excuse for all that problems. Please attach that mesh that unwraps wrongly. Do you use 22? Try 20 because there was some hardware - based problems recent week, so there some probability that it unfluenced 22... 

[Carlosan]

@liok work with a model so small it is not good for autopo algorithm.

I am testing your model using Edit > Scale master: enlarging 10x

- Scale 10x
- Autopo params - no guides

- Result

---------------------------------------------------------

* Crash reproduced and fixed on 2024.23

scale10.fbx

Edited July 8 by Carlosan
Crash reproduced and fixed on 2024.23

[Mighty Pea]

On 7/4/2024 at 5:23 PM, Mighty Pea said:

You did just now yes, but... it's confusing. You're saying this:

The point being, I'm trying to paint into the mask, not the layer!
Am I misunderstanding you? I want to paint into the mask, and on some layers (and only some), it tells me 'you're attempting to paint over an invisible layer'. Which, yes... I am, it's a mask, it's not directly visible!

So... no more emails or replies, is this being looked into?

[Oleg Shapov]

12 minutes ago, Mighty Pea said:

is this being looked into?

Yes, under consideration.

[Elemeno]

22 minutes ago, Mighty Pea said:

So... no more emails or replies, is this being looked into?

you cant paint black or white on masks?

[Carlosan]

3DC is a vast program with many possibilities. We try to offer the best, but sometimes it is not enough.

The rhythm of the market and the needs of users push us to develop new tools.

And to build new development add new issues. Without community help to find it, growth is much slower.

Thank you ALL very much for your valuable help and sorry if sometimes we don't fix all the errors quickly.

Retopo/Modeling Room bug hunt - report it here

Paint Room bug hunt - report it here

Modeling Room - Next Steps

Retopo Room - Next Steps

Future development wishlist

[L'Ancien Regime]

First I want to say the polygon modeling room is really excellent.  I like it a lot and it exceeds my expectations. I like it better than Blender's polygonal modeling and it's a good rival to Maya and even Houdini's polygonal modeling suite.

 

And now that we have s NURBS/BREP room in the works, while it's still at an embryonic state, I'd like to suggest one thing. Both NURBS and BREP are completely dependent upon curves, B splines and I think that if it already isn't being planned then I would strongly recommend a complete reworking of the curves suite of tools, both in functionality and in presentation/interface. In its present state it's not parametric enough and it's not precise enough. Curves needs to be made easier and more intuitive to use while also affording a setup for great precision and modification in a totally ergonomic manner.

Your new CAD  room will stand or fall on this. Splines are the absolute foundation of NURBS and BREP work flow. 

MOI3D, Rhino and of course Alias Automotive and ICEMSurf have this nailed.

I find that the current curves setup while adequate in voxel/surface room, in fact quite enjoyable to use there, won't cut it in a CAD/BREP environment. It's somewhat inchoate in its presentation currently. I'm sure if it's given some serious rethinking something incredible will come out of it.

 

When things get complex and tangled it's going to require a combination of refinement and rigorous interface organization.

Have some inspiration;   https://www.behance.net/gallery/99440287/Satellite-Hardware-Simulation-Test

Edited July 8 by L'Ancien Regime

[Gorbatovsky]

6 hours ago, L&#x27;Ancien Regime said:

Both NURBS and BREP are completely dependent upon curves

Thank you. I have a dream to make curve modeling tools precise and flexible. I thought about it something like this. It is necessary to combine the accuracy of AutoCAD and the flexibility and convenience of CorelDRAW. 

For solid parametric modeling, an absolutely necessary tool is a sketch on a plane, which allows you to easily impose geometric and dimensional constraints

[gbball]

Don't forget about Organic Nurbs modeling too.  I've shared similar ideas before, but I'll share again.

[L'Ancien Regime]

1 hour ago, Gorbatovsky said:

Thank you. I have a dream to make curve modeling tools precise and flexible. I thought about it something like this. It is necessary to combine the accuracy of AutoCAD and the flexibility and convenience of CorelDRAW. 

For solid parametric modeling, an absolutely necessary tool is a sketch on a plane, which allows you to easily impose geometric and dimensional constraints

 

For sketch on a plane a fast intuitive trim tool like MOI3D is essential. 

Really looking forward to seeing this entire  CAD and BREP toolset being given Pilgway's original rethinking.

 

 

Also a strong crossover from the Modeling room's Smooth Selection (Catmull Clark) SubD tool, perhaps developed in functionality from its present incarnation which is already adequate for its needs would be awesome as NURBS manual retopology of Catmull Clark polygonal modeling is de rigeur in Alias AutoStudio and Rhino 7 and 8..

 

https://www.rhino3d.com/features/subd/

 

This shows SubD to NURBS retopo automatically performed but initially it could be done manually..

 

Edited July 9 by L'Ancien Regime

[Mighty Pea]

19 hours ago, Carlosan said:

3DC is a vast program with many possibilities. We try to offer the best, but sometimes it is not enough.

I understand that, but I feel like I'm just shouting into the wind.

So, my bug is 'under consideration' now. That's language more appropriate for a feature request, but fine.

As I've submitted a file where it's 100% reproducable for me though, I'd like to know: Did you test it, can you preproduce?

 

I've been submitting bugs for 15 years, and have over that time managed to help track down some of the more egregious ones like a broken Undo. To then be met with a dismissive email that says 'you gotta paint _on_ the layer silly' just doesn't feel like you've got your support system in order...

Edited July 9 by Mighty Pea

[Oleg Shapov]

1 hour ago, Mighty Pea said:

Did you test it, can you preproduce?

Tested. The main developer knows about this. I don't know whether there will be preproduce.