3D Coat 2021 Symmetry issues in Poly mode

[Ratchet]

There is some issues with Symmetry i try to resume here so perhaps we could get some bug fix later.

 

1) Adding a cube and turning Symmetry after the cube have been added, will cause those issues

Weird polygons

Keeping Symmetry in retopo and choose bake will result in only baking in the modified cube, the other symmetry is not taken in account,

because symmetry polygons have not been created , but only displayed.

Turning Symmetry off in Retopo shows the initial cube before Symmetry was turned on, and the modification in one side like there was not real symmetry

How to force 3D coat to produce real polygons Symmetry when we turn Symmetry on in poly mode ? 

 

 I tried to turn symmetry before adding the cube in poly mode, but it creates two cubes and we can only select inside faces ?

 

It would be nice to have Symmetry working smoothly any time after adding a primitive and modifying it,

or from start before adding a primitive,

and without having to do some work around, just click on Symmetry on and off and it works adding real symmetry polygons any time.

 

Perhaps like Blender some polygon Object object instance , that would be a real polygon object modified as the source object is modified ?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Ratchet

[digman]

Windows version: 2021.40

My educated guess is below.

Go to the Mesh Menu- Deselect Virtual Mirror Mode if it is selected.

Side Note: I normally work in real symmetry mode but that is a artist call as others like using virtual mirror mode.

[Ratchet]

Forgive me to report issues in my free time,  and as i'm not paid for that like software testers.

 

 Version  2021.39

1) Add cube

2) turn symmetry on

3) and move cube to have space between original cube and the symmetry one

Make modification in the original cube they appear in the symmetry one, all is correct.

 

Turn symmetry off :

Left cube symmetry and it's geometry remains without modifications.

If this is not a bug, then what is is ?

 

1) Turn symmetry on again.

2) Choose sculpt mode

3) choose Voxelize from retopo with symmetry on

Move objects and we can see the same bug, the original cubes before modifications.

 

 

The solution is delete the symmetry remaining cube when symmetry is not on

 

2) Switch to sculpt and choose voxelize from retopo

No remaining original cube before modifications.

No more issues.

 

Perhaps that could be fixed in a later release even if it's easy work around.

But never mind as it's not really important.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Ratchet

[Carlosan]

Sorry i am asking too: Is Virtual Mirror Mode tuned ON ?

If yes, when finished your edition you need to Apply Symmetry to Current or All layers

[Carlosan]

  

 

On 4/13/2012 at 3:05 AM, TimmyZDesign said:

If Virtual Mirror Mode is unchecked then 3D-Coat will create REAL polygons on both sides of the symmetry plane (not virtual polygons).

This in turn makes "mirror snapping" inactive, so I prefer to turn "Virtual Mirror Mode" on, finish my retopo work, and then select "Apply symmetry to the current layer" in the Retopo menu to get the real polygons on both sides of the symmetry plane.

In order to check that the polygons connected properly along the symmetry line, don't forget to then turn symmetry off. Otherwise the virtual polygons will hide the real polygons underneath. I hope that makes sense to you. Good luck!

  

On 4/29/2012 at 4:04 PM, TimmyZDesign said:

Basically Virtual Mirror Mode is useful because it allows you to work exclusively on one side of your mesh while viewing a virtual preview for the other side. It is a nondestructive method of working, which I really like. It also allows you to snap the edges of polygons along the symmetry line using "mirror snapping". It is a nondestructive method of working, allowing for quick and easy changes to symmetrical models. I prefer to always leave it on during retopo, but it does have one slightly annoying bug: It doesn't work with the strokes tool. The workaround is to turn symmetry off temporarily and delete the unwanted faces it has created. This isn't a big deal, but I will report this bug when I get around to it.

 

 

 

[Ratchet]

Thanks Carlosan i will try.

So Symmetry is global in 3D coat ?

Retopo mode symmetry settings should not interfere with polygon modeling symmetry settings ?

Should not symmetry be per mode ? and not interfere with other modes ?

 

Version  2021.39

Another bug or it could be related to settings.

I started in Modeling mode, so like any user i would expect symmetry to work without having to look at retopo and it's symmetry or virtual mirror settings, as i 'm only interested in modeling first.

 

Symmetry off, but symmetry object remains.

 

3D coat file if someone interested testing

https://ufile.io/2nx79e0n

 

 

[Carlosan]

Sorry if i was not clear, but everything i told was found inside Modeling room > Mesh Menu

Symmetry is global in 3D coat.

Retopo mode symmetry settings interfere with polygon modeling symmetry settings, Retopo and Modeling room work as one being the extension of the other. 

* Maybe later both rooms should be unified... 

[Carlosan]

I tried to turn symmetry before adding the cube in poly mode, but it creates two cubes and we can only select inside faces ?

Yes, because the cube created remains in middle of global space, so faces are duplicated.

Symmetry off, but symmetry object remains.

Yes, because Virtual mirror mode is off. If you activated it again real and virtual faces are duplicated. If you turn symmetry ON, any change performed in one side is mirrored on the another.

How to force 3DCoat to produce real polygons Symmetry when we turn Symmetry on in poly mode ? 

 

 

 

[digman]

Carlosan is correct, You duplicated your mesh somehow. From looking at your first posting pictures it appear that Virtual Mirror mode was on as one side is more transparent than the other side.

You have to be a little careful with Virtual Mirror Mode.  

Choose with method you want to work in. If you have real geometry on the opposite side of the symmetry axis and you turn on Virtual Mirror Mode it will duplicate the mesh. 

You still have the real geometry there hidden by the virtual geometry. 

Just make sure you do not have real geometry across the symmetrical axis when using Virtual Mirror Mode. 

First picture. Virtual Mirror Mode on and Symmetry on.

Second picture. Virtual Mirror Mode on and Symmetry off. The virtual polygon disappears.

Side Note >Third picture. You can invert the mirror with the icon marked in red.

Symmetry setting is global as the rooms are interconnected because you work with the same mesh or if you have converted to a sculpt model.

Virtual Mirror Mode is global because of the same reason.

3DC has one model and several rooms vs one model and one room where you do all your work no matter what it is. That was Andrew's developers design back all the way to version 2. Less rooms back then but still the interface was divided by rooms. Once a user understands how 3DC works then it is easy to work with 3DC. I am using one model as an example.

[digman]

I as stated in an earlier post I like using real geometry across the symmetrical Axis.  I do use Virtual Mirror Mode depends upon my workflow atm.  

I also put my mesh at 100% opacity, default is around 62%.. That again will depend upon what I am doing at the moment.

[Ratchet]

Thanks both digman and Carlosan.

 

Yes mirror, and virtual mirror can bring such conflict.

 

So we must be cautious when choosing a different workflow approach

Start working in Low Poly Modeling -> sculpt ->Retopo : choose previous polygon model

 

What are your opinion about proposing the Virtual mirror inside the Symmetry panel ?

Perhaps a label : "Reropology : Virtual Mirror"

So all settings about mirror even virtual would be more easy to check and could not be missed, all at once in a same panel and without having to swith modes.

 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by Ratchet