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// Too slow sliders - Paint Room and overall


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Hey guys!

Loving 3D Coat in almost every regard. Thanks for listening to my feedback so far! It feels good to be part of the community of this treasure program.

I said I'll be back for more, so here it goes:

There is one thing that is unfortunately somewhat still a show stopper for me regarding texturing, but also present when using "Textures->Adjust" operations and the Layer Blending panel, and that is that

almost all of 3D Coats sliders are too laggy to be used efficiently.

When texturing, one wants to work fluently fast. When blending complex layer content together,

or doing adjustments, one needs to rely on very fast lookdev and detailed finetuning of the opacity of laeyers.

Currently, the sliders are lagging to such an amount that is unpleasant to work with them. Thing is: Fast subtle blending via layer opacity adjustment is the bread and butter of daily complex texturing work, where you need to make stuff look good fast. Often times, this depends on 2-3% difference in the opacity of a layer, or even in the 1% range for depth tweaks.

3D Coats sliders currently prevent the user to be able to work fast and efficiently, the sliders almost move in increments of 10-25% range when dragging, with serious stutters. This is not really workable unfortunately.

I especially noticed this once I returned to Substance Painter for a texturing job. The layer sliders there are smooth like butter, which enables me to feel much more comfortable and work faster than in 3D Coat, which is a pity.

I know in some recent update the sliders where already made faster, but unfortunately, the effect seems minimal improvement and far from solved.

It is strange that this is such an issue, cause imho this should be basic functionality that needs to work first before any other feature. Maybe it is something deep in 3D Coat's architecture that is not easy to solve. However, I think this is a mild show stopper and prevents 3D Coat from being 100% usable in that regard. I can imagine especially with textura being offered as a texturing software, this aspect will maybe put off a lot of users coming from other software to trust to get work done efficiently and flexible in 3D Coat.

I catch myself wanting to go back to Substance Painter or Marmoset cause of this, even though I love 3D Coat texturing (besides the lack of Black and White Masks), because it is really interfearing with texturing workflow on a fundamental level.

If there would be a way to make this as responsive as it is in Painter, that would be amazing and make 3D Coat much more convenient to work with.

Greetings and Love,

Walter

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@Andrew Shpagin

I hope this problem can be improved too
If there is a voting button, I want to press it ^_^

I mainly do UV Paint (Per-Pixel Painting), but
The larger the painting area of the layer, the more you suffer from this.
Even if it's a solid-colored layer, it suffers from extreme performance degradation.

I want the developers to test it once and confirm it.
1. Turn on the basic Per-Pixel sample example
2. After painting the entire layer with the Fill tool
3. Try Textures - Adjust - Hue/Saturation/Lightness (or other adjustments with Preview option)

Edited by Yousung
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Hey @YousungI too can confirm these problems, they've been present for a long time. In my experience, the moment one goes 2k+ resolution, even on desktop hardware, the sliders struggle and become slow.

It works well with vertex paint but not so much textures.

Maybe it's not of help, but if you set up an external 2d editor e.g. Krita, Photoshop, Clip Studio, SAI... Anything
then this option can be used to send a layer to that program, and usually something like HSV manipulation is much faster in there. Then can send back, by just saving, and then going into 3DCoat again. It's become my goto for changing something like contrast/hue/values/rgb because of this

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3DCoatGL64_k64OlhhZeW.thumb.jpg.78c2fa316a91b340067b92cc43a891a1.jpg

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2 hours ago, poeboi said:

but if you set up an external 2d editor e.g. Krita, Photoshop, Clip Studio, SAI... Anything
then this option can be used to send a layer to that program, and usually something like HSV manipulation is much faster in there. Then can send back, by just saving, and then going into 3DCoat again. It's become my goto for changing something like contrast/hue/values/rgb because of this

Yes, it's also good to send it to an external 2D tool and edit it.
I did that in my previous work as well.:)

However, I would like 3DC to improve its own functions.
Obviously, there are people who come across the painting functions through the 3DC Textura tool, so I think it should be improved.

We need to make sure users have a good experience.

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On 1/17/2022 at 12:25 PM, Yousung said:

Yes, it's also good to send it to an external 2D tool and edit it.
I did that in my previous work as well.:)

However, I would like 3DC to improve its own functions.
Obviously, there are people who come across the painting functions through the 3DC Textura tool, so I think it should be improved.

We need to make sure users have a good experience.

I agree. Having to send back/forth between 3d/2d app for simply being able to smoothly do adjust operations like this let 3D Coats texturing be left behind by other options out there,  where you have smoothly working sliders and adjustments. Namely Substance Painter and newly Marmoset Toolbag, with the latter becoming very powerful once they continue with development, as it really combines the best of both worlds: Painter and 3D Coat. It is even more advanced than Painter already in certain, but crucial aspects regarding layer handling.

3D Coats texturing shoots itself a bit in the foot with these usability problems. Sad as it is. But if it would be possible to fix things like these, it would probably change that. It is weird: such a breathtakingly powerful, masterfully crafted program, but yet, simple things like sliders lag terribly.

To me this is far beyond just having a "good experience", it is crucial for being able to use the texturing room in a professional viable manner, even if other aspects of the it are beyond amazing.

It is the basic functionality that is always more primary than layered functionality on top. If layer sliders are laggy, that is unfortunately a show stopper for a serious texturing toolset. No matter how much you love the tool, you can't keep using it sadly due to these issues. For fine tune textures is it crucial that you have immediate visual feedback while using sliders.

Currently I work on a game with very low res textures (max 256px) and I still get subtly affected by the issue depending on the layer. When I try it with 1k or even 2k, it is simply unusable. So using 3D Coat can not really be an option for me for texturing regular "this gen" assets, which really makes me sad.

Of course you can still do amazing texturing with 3D Coat no question. But we are in 2022 now, and I don't want to frequently exchange my textures with a 2D editor, that is not why people buy 3d texturing software for and it slows down the workflow significantly. Also, it is not all about color: gloss, metallic and height are equally important.

The problem is also far more worse than adjustments, as it also affects the general PBR channel sliders and layer blendings, like gloss, and gloss modulator, height, replace height etc. which is exactly the place where you need to have smooth fine control. Typing in numerical values is not an option for this.

@Andrew Shpagin This would be a much needed fix. It is probably not easy or you would have already done it I assume. But is too crucial to be left like it is. It is really a fundamentally plaguing issue in an otherwise great texturing software.

Edited by walter_sullivan
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5 hours ago, Carlosan said:

Could you please test v2022.17 ?

Thanks

Was there some new change in that build, which would address this longstanding problem? I have reported sluggish slider performance to Andrew, a few times over the past several years. My guess is that he didn't really know how to improve it, at the time.

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