Member walter_sullivan Posted January 16, 2022 Member Report Share Posted January 16, 2022 Hey guys! Loving 3D Coat in almost every regard. Thanks for listening to my feedback so far! It feels good to be part of the community of this treasure program. I said I'll be back for more, so here it goes: There is one thing that is unfortunately somewhat still a show stopper for me regarding texturing, but also present when using "Textures->Adjust" operations and the Layer Blending panel, and that is that almost all of 3D Coats sliders are too laggy to be used efficiently. When texturing, one wants to work fluently fast. When blending complex layer content together, or doing adjustments, one needs to rely on very fast lookdev and detailed finetuning of the opacity of laeyers. Currently, the sliders are lagging to such an amount that is unpleasant to work with them. Thing is: Fast subtle blending via layer opacity adjustment is the bread and butter of daily complex texturing work, where you need to make stuff look good fast. Often times, this depends on 2-3% difference in the opacity of a layer, or even in the 1% range for depth tweaks. 3D Coats sliders currently prevent the user to be able to work fast and efficiently, the sliders almost move in increments of 10-25% range when dragging, with serious stutters. This is not really workable unfortunately. I especially noticed this once I returned to Substance Painter for a texturing job. The layer sliders there are smooth like butter, which enables me to feel much more comfortable and work faster than in 3D Coat, which is a pity. I know in some recent update the sliders where already made faster, but unfortunately, the effect seems minimal improvement and far from solved. It is strange that this is such an issue, cause imho this should be basic functionality that needs to work first before any other feature. Maybe it is something deep in 3D Coat's architecture that is not easy to solve. However, I think this is a mild show stopper and prevents 3D Coat from being 100% usable in that regard. I can imagine especially with textura being offered as a texturing software, this aspect will maybe put off a lot of users coming from other software to trust to get work done efficiently and flexible in 3D Coat. I catch myself wanting to go back to Substance Painter or Marmoset cause of this, even though I love 3D Coat texturing (besides the lack of Black and White Masks), because it is really interfearing with texturing workflow on a fundamental level. If there would be a way to make this as responsive as it is in Painter, that would be amazing and make 3D Coat much more convenient to work with. Greetings and Love, Walter 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Yousung Posted January 17, 2022 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 17, 2022 (edited) @Andrew Shpagin I hope this problem can be improved too If there is a voting button, I want to press it I mainly do UV Paint (Per-Pixel Painting), butThe larger the painting area of the layer, the more you suffer from this.Even if it's a solid-colored layer, it suffers from extreme performance degradation. I want the developers to test it once and confirm it. 1. Turn on the basic Per-Pixel sample example 2. After painting the entire layer with the Fill tool 3. Try Textures - Adjust - Hue/Saturation/Lightness (or other adjustments with Preview option) Edited January 17, 2022 by Yousung 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor poeboi Posted January 17, 2022 Contributor Report Share Posted January 17, 2022 Hey @YousungI too can confirm these problems, they've been present for a long time. In my experience, the moment one goes 2k+ resolution, even on desktop hardware, the sliders struggle and become slow. It works well with vertex paint but not so much textures. Maybe it's not of help, but if you set up an external 2d editor e.g. Krita, Photoshop, Clip Studio, SAI... Anything then this option can be used to send a layer to that program, and usually something like HSV manipulation is much faster in there. Then can send back, by just saving, and then going into 3DCoat again. It's become my goto for changing something like contrast/hue/values/rgb because of this 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Yousung Posted January 17, 2022 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 17, 2022 2 hours ago, poeboi said: but if you set up an external 2d editor e.g. Krita, Photoshop, Clip Studio, SAI... Anything then this option can be used to send a layer to that program, and usually something like HSV manipulation is much faster in there. Then can send back, by just saving, and then going into 3DCoat again. It's become my goto for changing something like contrast/hue/values/rgb because of this Yes, it's also good to send it to an external 2D tool and edit it. I did that in my previous work as well. However, I would like 3DC to improve its own functions. Obviously, there are people who come across the painting functions through the 3DC Textura tool, so I think it should be improved. We need to make sure users have a good experience. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member walter_sullivan Posted January 18, 2022 Author Member Report Share Posted January 18, 2022 (edited) On 1/17/2022 at 12:25 PM, Yousung said: Yes, it's also good to send it to an external 2D tool and edit it. I did that in my previous work as well. However, I would like 3DC to improve its own functions. Obviously, there are people who come across the painting functions through the 3DC Textura tool, so I think it should be improved. We need to make sure users have a good experience. I agree. Having to send back/forth between 3d/2d app for simply being able to smoothly do adjust operations like this let 3D Coats texturing be left behind by other options out there, where you have smoothly working sliders and adjustments. Namely Substance Painter and newly Marmoset Toolbag, with the latter becoming very powerful once they continue with development, as it really combines the best of both worlds: Painter and 3D Coat. It is even more advanced than Painter already in certain, but crucial aspects regarding layer handling. 3D Coats texturing shoots itself a bit in the foot with these usability problems. Sad as it is. But if it would be possible to fix things like these, it would probably change that. It is weird: such a breathtakingly powerful, masterfully crafted program, but yet, simple things like sliders lag terribly. To me this is far beyond just having a "good experience", it is crucial for being able to use the texturing room in a professional viable manner, even if other aspects of the it are beyond amazing. It is the basic functionality that is always more primary than layered functionality on top. If layer sliders are laggy, that is unfortunately a show stopper for a serious texturing toolset. No matter how much you love the tool, you can't keep using it sadly due to these issues. For fine tune textures is it crucial that you have immediate visual feedback while using sliders. Currently I work on a game with very low res textures (max 256px) and I still get subtly affected by the issue depending on the layer. When I try it with 1k or even 2k, it is simply unusable. So using 3D Coat can not really be an option for me for texturing regular "this gen" assets, which really makes me sad. Of course you can still do amazing texturing with 3D Coat no question. But we are in 2022 now, and I don't want to frequently exchange my textures with a 2D editor, that is not why people buy 3d texturing software for and it slows down the workflow significantly. Also, it is not all about color: gloss, metallic and height are equally important. The problem is also far more worse than adjustments, as it also affects the general PBR channel sliders and layer blendings, like gloss, and gloss modulator, height, replace height etc. which is exactly the place where you need to have smooth fine control. Typing in numerical values is not an option for this. @Andrew Shpagin This would be a much needed fix. It is probably not easy or you would have already done it I assume. But is too crucial to be left like it is. It is really a fundamentally plaguing issue in an otherwise great texturing software. Edited January 18, 2022 by walter_sullivan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Yousung Posted March 31, 2022 Advanced Member Report Share Posted March 31, 2022 Any news on this issue? 2022 is officially release, but still experiencing terrible lags. I also tested it with Textura (trial version), but it's the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted April 4, 2022 Report Share Posted April 4, 2022 Painting over fewer big faces will be much slower than over divided faces. Try to avoid too big faces in UVspace. Divide faces that are too big whenever possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Yousung Posted April 5, 2022 Advanced Member Report Share Posted April 5, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Carlosan said: Could you please test v2022.17 ? No, it's the same as before.. // Edit 1) The attached video did not play, so I switched to YouTube. Edited April 5, 2022 by Yousung 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted April 5, 2022 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted April 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Carlosan said: Could you please test v2022.17 ? Thanks Was there some new change in that build, which would address this longstanding problem? I have reported sluggish slider performance to Andrew, a few times over the past several years. My guess is that he didn't really know how to improve it, at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Henry Townshend Posted June 30, 2022 Advanced Member Report Share Posted June 30, 2022 It would be really, really urgent to fix this problem. This is one of the major things that blocks 3D Coat's full PBR texturing potential. I have written Andrew a pm. Hope that it is somehow possible to fix this by now as 3D Coat has progressed in a lot of areas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Henry Townshend Posted July 30, 2022 Advanced Member Report Share Posted July 30, 2022 (edited) Did some more testing and added findings on this topic here: Also shot Andrew another email with the same text and demonstration video. Edited July 30, 2022 by Henry Townshend 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member def9 Posted September 13, 2022 Member Report Share Posted September 13, 2022 I see the same issue. Sculpting has improved a lot in 2022 version but PBR texturing in 3DCoat is too slow right now. I hope @Andrew Shpagincan look into it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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