multires + conform retopo mesh issues

[Tieguaili3D]

the current multires + conform retopo mesh workflow doesn't work as stated before in the multires feature request, the fact that conform is basically just a shrinkwrap projecting one mesh on top of another causes all these distortions, overlaps, and merged verts while you're in the process of sculpting normally, something that wouldn't be an issue with a proper multires that preserves the original topology without triangulation and without having to rely on reprojection after every single operation (something that is also gonna start causing a lot of lag the second you want to work on details and need more than a few million polygons)

the fact that it's a triangulated mesh also means your high poly is covered in these pinches when you subdivide that no amount or sculpting can clean up, which is unacceptable for baking cause you're gonna have them showing up in the normal map.

hopefully this is finally enough proof of why this feature is incomplete and needs to be finished with proper topoology preservation, it's a good start, the performance is great, rebuilding lower seems to work fine (hopefully it won't break the second you try it on quads), but as it is this multires meethod offers absolutely no benefits over the old decimation multires we had before, and has every single one of the same problems.

[Oleg Shapov]

It is advisable to snap the polygons to the sculpted surface.

And also merge the vertices to avoid surface breaks or the formation of artifacts.

[Oleg Shapov]

I don't see a problem. After baking the multi-resolution object, everything looks smooth.

[Tieguaili3D]

6 hours ago, Oleg_Shapo said:

It is advisable to snap the polygons to the sculpted surface.

And also merge the vertices to avoid surface breaks or the formation of artifacts.

low poly was imported to the retopo room and the sculpt object picked from there so there were no issues with the low poly at all, it was already exactly the same as the sculpt mesh which has conform on.

 

6 hours ago, Oleg_Shapo said:

I don't see a problem. After baking the multi-resolution object, everything looks smooth.

try this with an actual low poly rather than an already high poly voxel object, the issue is when working on game-res basemeshes the triangulation causes all kinds of pinching as shown in my screenshots

[Oleg Shapov]

27 minutes ago, Tieguaili3D said:

try this with an actual low poly rather than an already high poly voxel object

As I understand it, for this we gathered here to make a high-poly model, bake a normal map from it and dress it in our low-poly model. Correct me if I didn't understand something.

[Elemeno]

54 minutes ago, Tieguaili3D said:

low poly was imported to the retopo room and the sculpt object picked from there so there were no issues with the low poly at all, it was already exactly the same as the sculpt mesh which has conform on.

 

try this with an actual low poly rather than an already high poly voxel object, the issue is when working on game-res basemeshes the triangulation causes all kinds of pinching as shown in my screenshots

i believe they are sorting the triangle issue.. and getting quads soon , should help alot with this issue especially shading etc

[Tieguaili3D]

30 minutes ago, Oleg_Shapo said:

As I understand it, for this we gathered here to make a high-poly model, bake a normal map from it and dress it in our low-poly model. Correct me if I didn't understand something.

the main use of multires sculpting is to be able to use your game-ready basemeshes to make variations on that asset without breaking your UVs, and to be able to create blendshapes for your character and creatures, and to be able to bring in that low poly game-res mesh to work on because it gives you the flexibility to make large proportional changes at the base resolution while also sculpting in details to bake later at higher resolutions, the fact that you can't do any of that effectively is why the new multires offers no benefit over the old decimation levels system

 

9 minutes ago, Elemeno said:

i believe they are sorting the triangle issue.. and getting quads soon , should help alot with this issue especially shading etc

it won't help with the fact that conform retopo mesh just doesn't work well when you're doing anything more than a few very minor edits, unless they're also gonna be preserving UVs as well

[Elemeno]

2 hours ago, Tieguaili3D said:

the main use of multires sculpting is to be able to use your game-ready basemeshes to make variations on that asset without breaking your UVs, and to be able to create blendshapes for your character and creatures, and to be able to bring in that low poly game-res mesh to work on because it gives you the flexibility to make large proportional changes at the base resolution while also sculpting in details to bake later at higher resolutions, the fact that you can't do any of that effectively is why the new multires offers no benefit over the old decimation levels system

 

it won't help with the fact that conform retopo mesh just doesn't work well when you're doing anything more than a few very minor edits, unless they're also gonna be preserving UVs as well

yea but multires currently just creates random triangles... when you look at topology its not even.. its not a proper multires when you actually look at it.. its like the software stores high poly and low and just tries to interpolate between them with random topology...

[Elemeno]

 

alot of work needs doing to mutires... personally i dont use it, its more trouble than good

[Tieguaili3D]

37 minutes ago, Elemeno said:

 

alot of work needs doing to mutires... personally i dont use it, its more trouble than good

i've not had issues nearly that bad with it but you're right, we need proper multires before we can actually work in 3d coat with basemeshes, all of this i did point out in the original feature request thread but hopefully we get there eventually

[Elemeno]

1 minute ago, Tieguaili3D said:

i've not had issues nearly that bad with it but you're right, we need proper multires before we can actually work in 3d coat with basemeshes, all of this i did point out in the original feature request thread but hopefully we get there eventually

yea .. to be fair , alot of the main requests hopefully come in 2023 but for now they are trying their best to get everything done

[MJonathan]

I have the same issue! I'm going to explain why I need to work in this way! Firts I work in animation and vfx industry, the modeling department have already base meshes from other projects, sometimes we need to create the model from scratch! But most of the time we use existing models to start to work! These models have good topology for rigging and good UDIMs for texture department! Modeling department import the model to zbrush with uvs and correct topology, and start to create deformation for a new character, when the character shape is ready, it's time to create pores, likeness in the character! We need to create a 32 bits displacement map or a vector displacement map. When the model is finished! The rigging team update the rig with the new model mesh. Obviously there are more pipeline process, but this is one of them. Now I'm going to show the images!!

When I watched the new 3dcoat video about multi-res and conform retopo, I thought that it can be good for the necessaries! But it doesn't work I expected! Conform retopo is amazing to create blendShapes!! I tried with layers and it works very cool!

Image 1: When I started to move the nose with move brush! The topology in that part was broken! EDIT: It was my error, conform mesh works, but it merge vertex in some areas. The same as the Tieguali images.

Image 2: This is the base mesh imported in retopo room, all its good here!

Image 3: Model imported from retopo room to sculpt room. It looks smooth and the multires tool is off. All good, Technically the model doesn't need to be smooth because I don't have subdivitions enabled, but this is not a problem at this moment.

Image 4: When I enabled the Multi-Res subdivistion and started to increase the subdivisions, artifacts started to appear in the surface! that's wrong 'cause I'll need to add pores and start the likeness process. So I won't get a good displacement or normal map.

Image 5: I imported the same model in zbrush for illustration purposes. It looks like I expected, in the level 1, it looks as maya mesh, with no smoothed normals.

Image 6: I increased the subd levels to 4! The same level that 3dCoat. But the surface looks smooth and clean of artifacts! That's good 'cause I can modify the topology with Move brush or wherever brush! And I'll maintain the topology and the Uv's, and I'll create a good displacement map without artifacts in it!.

Thanks for read, I love 3dcoat voxel algorithm! I hope you can improve the algorithm for this part. Thanks developers.

Edited January 29, 2023 by MJonathan

[hdc15729]

Hello, I also have not switched to 3d coat yet because of this reason. I do blendshapes a lot and this way of wrapping a repoto mesh over the high poly just isn't ideal. I'd like to just have a proper multires like in zbrush/blender.

[Carlosan]

Please test version 2023.23
Many detected problems have been improved