Issue with Exported File and File Size ? - 3DCoat / DAZ / ZBrush

[Laticis]

Hi,

Seeking some advice please and any insight regarding an issue I am dealing with.

Software being used:
3DCoat 2023.27 / DAZ Studio 4.21 / ZBrush 2022.0.7 / Windows 10

Issue:
Exported file size from 3DCoat larger than expected and the exported file disables my ability to create morphs or updates using the original base mesh.

Process:
I have created a cluster of rocks, with a decimated triangulated mesh in ZBrush and created a UV Map at 4096 x 4096 - File Size after export = 5,328 KB
The UV Map created in ZBrush was full of under-utilized space, so I brought it into 3DCoat to utilize the UV packing features.
Imported settings attached and the result of repacking the UV's in 3DCoat.
New UV Map applied and the mesh exported - File Size after export = 8,649 KB
New mesh Imported into DAZ Studio.
New mesh would not accept changes made in Zbrush to the original mesh via GoZ

Problem:
The first noticeable difference is the file size exported from 3D Coat is quite larger compared to the original from ZBrush.

I started looking at this because when I re-imported the new mesh from 3DCoat and I wanted to create an adjustment morph for the rocks.
For this I generally work with ZBrush and GOZ and create the morph or adjust the placement of the rocks.
Unfortunately, I could not do that with the newly imported mesh and the original file.
It not a big issue, because I can just port the new mesh.

But I wanted to know why. Its generally because the vertices count changes which is what my initial assessment was.

After comparing the original file and exported file from 3DCoat, in Zbrush I get the following results: same poly count: 77,538

BUT the Active Point count was different:
Zbrush Original mesh: 39,239
Exported 3D Coat  mesh: 77,607

So, ran Mesh Integrity & Fix Mesh in ZBrush and this certainly worked, repairing the imported 3DCoat mesh rverting the mesh back to 39,239 active points while maintaining the new UV's created.

Not only that, during the process the repaired 3DCoat mesh with UV's 4096 x 4096 has a new file size: after export = 4,806 KB

But even now, with the matching polys and points match, I can't create a morph or mesh change from the original mesh to the new.

Questions:
Why does there seem to be extra vertices created by 3DCoat upon export of the mesh?
Why if the mesh is now match after repair it wont recognise chnage to the original mesh?
Am I doing something wrong?

All I wanted to do was to update the UV's but boy, did that lead me down a rabbit hole

Any input, feedback or advice is greatly appreciated.
 

[Laticis]

Hey Carslon,

Issue 1 - importing into retopo
I am getting the same issue in the Retopo Room....it's like scaling issue.

[Laticis]

Reverted back to 2024-20 and no issues, imports fine.

It's what was happening before.

Sorry I need to call it for a night it's 10pm here. Thanks again for all the assistance...all the best for your day/evening.
I'll touch base again tomorrow.

Cheers Ady

[Carlosan]

I found this - Part 1

hope it help

exporting an object back to DAZ at a different resolution will break the object when you apply the morph.

[Carlosan]

last test - 2 steps

- Polygroups: 

Import daz model into retopo/model to make/modify polygroups or add UVs to existing polygroups (as was show above).

- Sculpt +morph

Bake from R/M to Paint selecting MicroVertex mode (here we have an issue, MV baking dont have udims support as option)

Until this issue is solved I exported the model from R/M and importing into Paint Room for MV painting (Load object options is complete)

- Udims and polygroups are preserved

Paint w/displacement

or move

Export the model and import into original model on daz, apply morph

Morphs are loaded OK (both: painted displacement and move)
Surfaces are preserved ok

You can also paint or move by Layer, File > export model and textures
and then import Layers as morphs on Morph loader.

[Laticis]

Good morning Carlosan,

Regarding Step 1 - I'm a DAZ PA so I have access to that functionality to create HD morphs with DAZ & ZBrush via GoZ, unfortunately that's not the issue for this mesh.
None of the testing meshes have had Sub-D levels applied. I still think it's a vertices order change, I guess it has to be considering the polycount is the same.

Step 2 - this is looking like a very awesome workflow, I love where this is going. Exactly what's needed for a DAZ figure...paint and morph at the same time.

"You can also paint or move by Layer, File > export model and textures and then import Layers as morphs on Morph loader." - very, very, very cool


Something to considered....
Inside of DAZ Studio under surfaces, there is a system called LIE ( Layered Image Editor ) it's used to create Make-up mainly.
Imagine a workflow between 3DCoat and DAZ where you can bridge your character across, use Paint w/displacement to create details, morphs and a texture layer. Bridge back to DAZ ( like GoZ but better ) and a morphs gets created plus a layered textured that works with the LIE system. Then, we have a completely non-destructive workflow and content creators for DAZ can create addon asset packs.

----------------------------------------------------------------

With last nights testing, I had no issue creating new UV's and creating morphs with the mesh using 3DCoat.
The only issue left standing for me is that exported mesh updated inside of 3DCoat does not match the original mesh from ZBrush.
Once again, only a minor thing has I will adapt the workflow...it's just been driving me nuts for so long LOL

Side note: many of the morphs I create in Zbrush takes advantage of two main factors. 1. masking 2. deformation panel functions ie: contrast, inflate etc.

[Carlosan]

step 1A

Your model as subtool imported on zb

Picking the same subtool, I have imported the model from 3DC (paint MV) to replace it, no error popups

Also UVs remains, no problem

[Carlosan]

retopo/modeling: use this room to import the low level mesh from daz, add new polyg or modify polygroups done in zb, make UVs

paint w/MV: use this room to import the low level or sub-d mesh to paint w/displacement to create details, morphs and a texture layer.

Daz Studio uses Catmull-Clark Subdivision Surface technology.
3DC support Catmull-Clark Subdivision or HD Morphs.

To import sub-d levels you can select this options:

 
Specify if CC - smoothing is required.
Otherwise, the flat subdivision is applied.

 
The mesh consists of two levels of detail: display mesh resolution or initial resolution (mid - poly mesh) and high resolution mesh.
Usually you see the mid-poly mesh in the viewport with a normal map created using the high-poly mesh.

sidenote: as I see to create a daz bridge it is not an easy task. Dev scheduling mark the priorities.

[Carlosan]

Now I am learning how to create this Layered Image Editor

This can be done easily on 3DC using Layer mask

The Layered Image Editor (often seen shortened to L.I.E.) is builtin to DAZ Studio.
You can access it by opening the Surfaces tab and clicking on any texture map (usually Diffuse) which will open a drop down list of options, including the Layered Image Editor.
Click on that and it will open a new window for the utility with a copy of your selected texture map loaded.
You will see that there are a number of settings pertaining to that image that you can adjust there, but the primary use of the L.I.E. is to add additional layers to the image. For example, you might want to add a tattoo, or blemishes, or a scar or bruise, etc.
These additional layers can be added (or removed) by using the + or - buttons near the edge of the right pane. Then click on Resource > Browse to locate and open the desired image for the new layer (containing the scar, tattoo, etc.).
You can then adjust the position, scale etc. to suit.
Click accept and the combined image will be added to the surface and the result can be seen in the viewport. It does require that you have created or obtained the necessary images you wish to add as layers in advance, with any parts of the image background not wanted set as having 0 opacity. The documentation (dated but still valid, I believe) can be found here:

http://4eyes.code66.se/?p=7608

[Laticis]

Regarding Step1A I don't have any issue with that workflow either...in fact everything all works great between apps ( except for that one little issue )
The moment I start working with a new mesh all is perfect...

Ooh, I have been painting the mask today in PPPMode with an initial Sub-D level ( with Catmull-Cark ) and the textures are translating quite well.

I am working on a Gold, Wooden and now a Leather version (just trying to get the studs right ) - all will be free and posted to Render Hub. ( I have added morphs but all done in Zbrush for now )

[Laticis]

Yeah, the L.I.E. has been an awesome addition to the DAZ workflow ( sometimes a little slower though ) great way for the end user to mix and match.

[Carlosan]

many of the morphs I create in Zbrush takes advantage of two main factors. 1. masking 2. deformation panel functions ie: contrast, inflate etc.

on 3DC you can create Layer Mask for painting 

Or mask (freeze) for Geometry

[Laticis]

It's tough using Genesis 8 after using Genesis 9 ( both have strong and weak points )

Heres the wooden mask with a quick render in DAZ. ( Not spending too much time on it because they are a freebies ) 

[Carlosan]

Adjust

Can be on colors by strokes

Or height by strokes

Or on the overall layer/model/surface

And on Blending Panel

Edited June 19 by Carlosan
typo correction

[Carlosan]

We need to wait Gen 9 import implementation to perform more test.

[Laticis]

I actually used the Layer Mask today for the first time...( I felt a bit awkward but trying to adopt it into the workflow but it's a great asset to have when texturing )
I would like to do more modelling and texturing but Hair is my main priority ATM.

I've never messed with the Freeze Tool before.

 

[Carlosan]

As I remember, hair in daz its a fine task.

Morphs of original hair models can be done as any other object morphs in paint room > Tweak category using PPP or MV.

To create new hair I use this blender addon, slow learning curve at first but very effective

[Laticis]

Sorry, where do I find these functions when in painting mode ?



I can see the Tool Options Panel but can't see those settings underneath.

Also, how would I go about creating the follow mask.

So the leather has a pattern in it layer 6. But I've added a gloss coat ( layer 7 ) now I would like to use the texture underneath to control the intensity and variation of the gloss coat using a layer mask. Originally I tried more on Bump or Dent but I did get much a result there.

Actually am I am to take a layer into Photoshop to create a mask there and bring it back?
 

[Carlosan]

Did you select the coloring tool to see that controls on Tool options ?

[Laticis]

Yeah, hair for DAZ is certainly a fine task indeed.

Oooh, if you want an awesome addon for Blender Hair, I thoroughly recommend this product:
https://blendermarket.com/products/blender-addon--3d-hair-brush-v3?search_id=30814272

I used it to help me finish this product ( which I submitted yesterday ) 

[Carlosan]

looks very nice !

[Laticis]

2 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

Did you select the coloring tool to see that controls on Tool options ?

 

No, it's been sitting there all day... I just closed it though.

[Carlosan]

Windows > Panels > Tool Options

[Laticis]

1 minute ago, Carlosan said:

looks very nice !

 

Thanks, going to be a very versatile hair product. All done with the same mesh, guide curves inside of DAZ with surface settings and density maps.
 

[Laticis]

4 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

Windows > Panels > Tool Options

 

Thanks..okay I got that Panel back but can't see those Options

[Carlosan]

you need to select coloring tool

//typo correction, no brush but strokes

[Laticis]

Oh doh......LOL...Thank you

[Carlosan]

I would like to use the texture underneath to control the intensity and variation of the gloss coat using a layer mask

Press the down icon right to layer name...

to open the Blending Panel

select Clip Mask Layer at botton

[Laticis]

Awesome...very much appreciated

[Laticis]

Ooooh yeah...this opens up so many doors.

Only a test for now but I will finalize it tomorrow...time for dinner.

As usual, thank you for the support and information. 

[Carlosan]

Enjoy your meal and thanks for all !

I'm going to take a day trip, I will have limited connection so I can give less feedback.

See you later !