Member MJonathan Posted December 20, 2024 Member Share Posted December 20, 2024 3dCoat does what it needs to do and provides the necessary tools to work with layers and other tools, which is great, and it is an amazing software, however, the design should not only work well, it should also be easy to understand and visually appealing so that users enjoy it. This can motivate people to use 3dcoat more frequently. This is my analysis of User Interface and User Experience specifically in the layer system. The comparison between the two presented images, highlights significant differences in terms of User Interface design and User Experience. While both systems are functional and allow for layer management, the visual design and organization of each interface directly impact user clarity, accessibility and satisfaction. Both interfaces enable basic layer management tasks, such as organizing, grouping and applying specific properties. This demonstrates that, from a functional perspective, the programs achieve their primary purpose. The first interface stands out due to its design, which prioritizes visual clarity and hierarchical organization, Its main strengths include: * Use of Iconography: Icons make it easy to quickly identify the purpose of each layer or adjustment without needing to read excessive text.* Visual Differentiation: Colors, effects, and specific labels help distinguish layers and their properties, improving navigation.* Clear Hierarchy: Grouped layers are represented with indentations and visual elements that reinforce their logical relationship, enhancing the understanding of project structure.* Visual Appeal: The interface is modern and pleasant, contributing to a better perception of the program and a more satisfying user experience. The second interface (3dcoat), while functional, presents shortcomings that negatively affect the user experience: * Excessive Plain Text: The lack of icons and colors forces users to rely solely on reading to understand each element, which can be tiring and less efficient.* Lack of Visual Hierarchy: Layer groups are visually indistinguishable from individual layers, creating confusion and making the project structure harder to follow. As a programmer imagine that the code does not have indentation, in some languages this is permitted, but programmers generates this indentation to read the lines of code easily.* Monotonous Design: The absence of visually appealing elements makes the interface feel "dry" and uninviting, which could discourage users. The first interface delivers a positive experience by being intuitive, clear and visually appealing, reducing the user's cognitive load and speeding up workflow. In contrast, the second interface, though functional, may frustrate users due to its flat design and lack of visual differentiation, requiring more effort to complete the same tasks. In the third image, the left panel is overcrowded with tightly packed options, lacking visual hierarchy or grouping, which overwhelms users and makes navigation challenging. Some parameters names, like "Gloss modulator" or "Use as Weight M", are unclear, requiring additional effort to understand their purpose. The overall monotony of gray text on a dark background further detracts from usability. Improvements such as better grouping, intuitive naming, consistent design, and the use of colors, icons, and spacing could significantly enhance clarity, accessibility and user satisfaction. That's what I want to say about the 3dcoat user experience in general. I work creating shotgrid tools using PySide6 in a vfx/anim studio integrating user experience to give to the artists an easy understanding of the functionality of the tools. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 20, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 20, 2024 Thank you for taking the time to specify what you think can be improved. It's far more helpful and constructive than just repeating what you may have heard someone else say...ie, "The UI sucks." IMHO, it doesn't suck, but still has plenty of room for improvement. I don't disagree with much of what you suggested, but the comparison images you use are a bit outdated because we got image thumbnails on each layer + Photoshop style layer mask thumbnails in 3DCoat 2024. I do disagree a little bit regarding the layer grouping. In my opinion, it is noticeably/visually different from individual layers the same way PS group layers are. It's offset to the right, labeled specifically GROUP X, and has an arrow to the left of that text indicating that it is currently collapsed. Some others will also disagree about text vs icons. In 3DCoat, I think there is a good blend of both and you can choose to have all icons in the tool panel. Therefore, I am not personally in favor of cluttering the UI with more icons. We all have different preferences on that topic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member MJonathan Posted December 21, 2024 Author Member Share Posted December 21, 2024 It’s amazing that they are improving the user experience with these updates! Most of the new features related to the layers system are already here. I have 3DCoat 2024, but not the latest version. Two months ago, they released updates for 3DCoat Textura, and the layers system there is quite similar to the one I’m using, but this update seems to be very recent. It's great, thanks so much for pointing me to this update. I'm sure they'll continue making improvements in this area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 21, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 21, 2024 1 hour ago, MJonathan said: It’s amazing that they are improving the user experience with these updates! Most of the new features related to the layers system are already here. I have 3DCoat 2024, but not the latest version. Two months ago, they released updates for 3DCoat Textura, and the layers system there is quite similar to the one I’m using, but this update seems to be very recent. It's great, thanks so much for pointing me to this update. I'm sure they'll continue making improvements in this area Yeah, you can see the new layer thumbnails and Photoshop style (and compatible) Layer/Clipping Masks here in this video: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member MJonathan Posted December 21, 2024 Author Member Share Posted December 21, 2024 Amazing! I've downloaded the latest version of 3dCoat, and there are significant improvements in both the UI and UX. If they keep enhancing it, more artists will be interested in learning the software, and the learning curve will become less step. I hope developers work on improving the creation of pie menus. These types of widgets are highly flexible and provide a much better user experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Elemeno Posted December 22, 2024 Advanced Member Share Posted December 22, 2024 10 hours ago, MJonathan said: Amazing! I've downloaded the latest version of 3dCoat, and there are significant improvements in both the UI and UX. If they keep enhancing it, more artists will be interested in learning the software, and the learning curve will become less step. I hope developers work on improving the creation of pie menus. These types of widgets are highly flexible and provide a much better user experience. theres been changes to ui/ux? i have 2024/31 and ui looks the same .. all menus look the same too ... since like v2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member MJonathan Posted December 22, 2024 Author Member Share Posted December 22, 2024 Hi Elemo, I noticed that the painting layers look different now, and I understand the excitement for big changes but it is complicated because it depends on the 3dcoat architecture. While small improvements are always welcome, I believe the focus should first be on improving the user experience (UX). Why? Because although 3dCoat has a lot of powerful tools, it can be overwhelming for users to understand and navigate them effectively. For example, yesterday I was working with polygroups in the Retopo Room, but when I switched to the UV Room, my model disappeared. I couldn't figure out how to transfer my polygroups to the UV Room to create UVs. Each room feels like a completely separate entity, with no clear connection between them. This disconnect makes it challenging for new users to grasp the workflow and overcomplicates the pipeline for something as simple as creating a basic asset. Additionally, the inconsistency in shortcuts across rooms adds another layer of frustration. For instance, I'd like to assign different shortcuts for modeling and painting tasks, but the current system doesn't seem to support that flexibility. While the UI is not bad, it could definitely be refined with small improvements (as kaizen methodology). However, improving the UX should be the priority to make 3dCoat more intuitive and accessible, especially for new users as me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 27, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 27, 2024 On 12/22/2024 at 4:16 AM, Elemeno said: theres been changes to ui/ux? i have 2024/31 and ui looks the same .. all menus look the same too ... since like v2 There has been a ton of incremental UI/UX work since V4.9 and these are clearly demonstrated on the Youtube channel. It's like none of the UI work done ever gets any appreciation. Nobody said there was going to be a complete overhaul and I honestly don't see the need for one. Why? Because no other 3D application has had one except Blender, and they received big donations from Mega sized corporations/companies. Every other app has only added minor cosmetic changes to the icons, essentially. 3DCoat changed ALL the icons in v 2021 and you say you have seen no changes since V.2? The Activity Bar was added and then recently modified to help minimize the number of panels in the UI. There was a Minimalist mode (toggled via the TAB key) added, so you can work with a very simple UI if you don't like the current UI layout. You can work in a practically bare UI and simply access the panels you want via hotkeys (or button assignments on a Wacom Tablet and/or 3DConnection Device). You have a nice, new Viewport Gizmo similar to what you see in other 3D apps such as Blender. You have Gizmo-Less Transforms like in Blender. You have Workspace tabs or Workspaces hidden away in a list menu...your choice. There are object highlights in the viewport, when a Sculpt Tree layer is selected. There are layer colors, new Layer/Clipping Masks with Thumbnails like in Photoshop...and best of all they are totally compatible with Photoshop's masks. UI Icon color changes have been made highly customizable. You can choose which fonts you want used in the UI. There are 3ds Max style RMB menus in the Modeling/Retopo Workspaces. Andrew did a LOT of work improving the UI/UX the past few years and it's really disheartening to hear so many critics dismiss all that work as nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 27, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 27, 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 27, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 27, 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 27, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 27, 2024 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 27, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 27, 2024 On 12/22/2024 at 4:16 AM, Elemeno said: theres been changes to ui/ux? i have 2024/31 and ui looks the same .. all menus look the same too ... since like v2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 27, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 27, 2024 On 12/22/2024 at 4:16 AM, Elemeno said: theres been changes to ui/ux? i have 2024/31 and ui looks the same .. all menus look the same too ... since like v2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Elemeno Posted December 27, 2024 Advanced Member Share Posted December 27, 2024 those are all new features ... i still have v4.9installed and the ui and ux is exactly the same , dont get me wrong they have added tons of new features and improved workflow and efficiency for some of the tools , but in terms of using the software properly , having a good workflow and using the software for professional reasons ... its harder and takes more time that using others ... where 3dcoat thrives right now is the retopology tools , its not that 3dcoat has got worst but other softwares are gaining ahead of 3dc , in terms of sculpting ,texturing and modelling , even blender has become my new tool for hand painting textures. they need to revise the whole workflow , make the software stable and efficient . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted December 30, 2024 Reputable Contributor Share Posted December 30, 2024 On 12/27/2024 at 11:19 PM, Elemeno said: those are all new features ... i still have v4.9installed and the ui and ux is exactly the same , dont get me wrong they have added tons of new features and improved workflow and efficiency for some of the tools , but in terms of using the software properly , having a good workflow and using the software for professional reasons ... its harder and takes more time that using others ... where 3dcoat thrives right now is the retopology tools , its not that 3dcoat has got worst but other softwares are gaining ahead of 3dc , in terms of sculpting ,texturing and modelling , even blender has become my new tool for hand painting textures. they need to revise the whole workflow , make the software stable and efficient . It's rather unfair (to the developers) to be criticizing a software company for (supposedly) neglecting an area of the application while using an old version, and the areas you are critical of, have since been significantly improved. They are also continually undergoing incremental changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Elemeno Posted December 31, 2024 Advanced Member Share Posted December 31, 2024 On 12/30/2024 at 3:18 PM, AbnRanger said: It's rather unfair (to the developers) to be criticizing a software company for (supposedly) neglecting an area of the application while using an old version, and the areas you are critical of, have since been significantly improved. They are also continually undergoing incremental changes. im not using an old version , im using 2024.31 , but im saying since the software has been made , the workflow hasnt been improved , theres alot that could be done to help artists and even new comers , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted January 3 Reputable Contributor Share Posted January 3 On 12/31/2024 at 4:25 PM, Elemeno said: im not using an old version , im using 2024.31 , but im saying since the software has been made , the workflow hasnt been improved , theres alot that could be done to help artists and even new comers , I am still pushing for changes, too, such as unification/merging of PAINT & RETOPO/MODELING meshes, so the workflow and UX is less complicated, confusing (ie. 2 different workspaces with UV tools) and consolidated. However, one of your long time requests is to add Quad-Sculpting to the Sculpt workspace, and in my view that would not help the UX...but would only make it more complicated and hard to use with yet another mesh type/platform in the Sculpting environment (Voxels/Dynamic Subdivision of Tris/Quad Mesh.). It might beneficial to your specific workflow, but that may not be the case for most 3DCoat users, who could benefit from the development effort used in other areas. Personally, I have never run into a situation where I thought "if only I could sculpt with quads right now." I can sculpt whatever I need to, from the earliests block out/rough stages, all the way through the uber high frequency detail stages. Sometimes I encounter holes in the Surface mesh, but I can usually fix those quickly with the tools that are available to do so (Clean Clay, Close Holes, etc.). Voxels are fantastic for early to intermediate stages of a sculpt, especially with the newer Clay Brushes. Surface Mode is perfect for Intermediate - Late stages of a sculpt, where topological flow (of quad meshes) doesn't really add much (if any) benefit, IMHO. Therefore, for me and I think most 3DCoat users, development time would be better spent consolidating meshes (and Workspaces) to simplify the workflow and make it more efficient + easier to learn. I also think the Paint Workspace needs some love, to make it more competitive with Substance Painter. With all of that said, there have indeed been a lot of changes to improve the UI/UX since V4.9x, and those were mentioned in my previous posts. The Layer/Clipping Masks addition is actually quite HUGE! That has been requested for several years, and it not only works for Low poly/UV mapped meshes (Paint Objects), but also for Vertex & Voxel Painting. Nobody else offers Volumetric painting, let alone Photoshop style Layer Masks to be used with it! People have also requested the Viewport Navigation Gizmo (like other Major 3D apps have had for a while), and that has been quite handy. The Activity Bar is another major improvement that I don't even see in other applications. There has also been periodic performance improvements, quietly included in various builds (one very recently). The Tweak room tools were consolidated into the Paint Workspace. It's not a major new improvement, but it makes access of those tools easier and more convenient. There was the addition of the Minimalist layout, easily accessed/toggled via the TAB hotkey. It doesn't get any more cleaner and uncluttered than that. Tools/panels can be quickly accessed by hotkey, SpaceBar Menu or via the Activity Bar. The Retopo/Modeling tools have been steadily improved. Why does Andrew and the other developers get no credit for any of this work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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