3D-Coat 3.1 updates thread

[AbnRanger]

Andrew, where are you going with the new surfacing paradigm and tools, if I may ask? Speed only, or are you trying to make it a similar workflow to ZB and MB and allow users to bake the result straight to a normal/displacement map (to be applied to a low-mid poly model)?

[Javis]

The new surface tools are only an extension of voxel sculpting, but a much faster way of sculpting. So the end result is the same (Retopo/baking to a map).

The only downside is that there are less tools in this mode... EDIT: At least for the moment.

[bwtr]

I can not find how/where these free-form primitives are?

Brian

[Andrew Shpagin]

I can not find how/where these free-form primitives are?

Brian

Voxels page->Primitives

[bwtr]

Thanks

Brian

[splodge]

Andrew, where are you going with the new surfacing paradigm and tools, if I may ask? Speed only, or are you trying to make it a similar workflow to ZB and MB and allow users to bake the result straight to a normal/displacement map (to be applied to a low-mid poly model)?

I'm not sure if you know this, but you can export a low poly model from surface mode and then go to retopo and import the low poly model back into 3D Coat and bake the details onto it. And it works great too!

ps - This is me trying to be helpful, not contrary.. so don't you be getting your underpants in a twist!!

[JamesE]

I really like the new chisel brush! It definitely makes it easier to work with hard surfaces the way I would in zbrush 3.5. I mostly ignored the surface mode until now except for the early stages of a sculpt, where I'd just use the clay and rapid brushes for blocking out. Now I'm able to shape hard surfaces much more quickly. I still see the odd bit of corruption happening when switching back and forth between surface and voxel mode though. Hasn't been a real issue yet because I'm not refining anything. I think that would get annoying though having to clean up messy voxels on a piece that was already close to final. If that can be worked out I'll feel more confident in the surface sculpting mode.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Re-uploaded (only Windows build for now) to solve tearing problem after getting back from surface mode in some cases (mentioned by artman in support area and in this thread too).

Also uv problem (looooooond faces) mentioned by haikalle solved there too.

[wailingmonkey]

nice build, Andrew!

some interesting shapes can be acquired very easily.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Andrew, where are you going with the new surfacing paradigm and tools, if I may ask? Speed only, or are you trying to make it a similar workflow to ZB and MB and allow users to bake the result straight to a normal/displacement map (to be applied to a low-mid poly model)?

I plan to introduce multiresolution in surface mode too.

So full pipeline will be (as I suppose):

- voxels until 5-8M (or even 1M if someone likes)

- surface + subdiv levels until very high limit

- painting over surface vertices, painting with not only color but with shaders too to achieve "faked" resolution up to many billions of polygons - because shaders can give bigger resolution. For example there is no need to paint every pore on skin, it is enough to paint with different types of shader over different areas, mixing them together.

Anyway, it is the future where we are running.

[haikalle]

Sounds amazing.

[asche]

would it be possible to import meshes in the surface mode of the voxels ? not as voxels but as a polymesh

i really like the voxels, but for some purposes i think its quite cumbersome to do the retopology step ... i.e. if i have a basemesh, want to do some more sculpting it would be awesome to somehow unite the sculpting room with the surface tools of the voxels (if there will be a multiresolution mode in the future). is it possible to put all the surface tools into the sculting room ? or is there a different paradigm behind it ?

if you import a basemesh into the voxel room, sculpt a bit, you always have to retopologize the mesh (importing the basemesh doesnt really work in retopolgy, because some serious changes in voxelmode will mess it up).

if you need to change some stuff, like make one part way bigger, or changing the direction, you always have to do that step again.

another thing is : it would REALLY be helpfull to texture the model in voxelmode (as i understand you are planning it)

i.e. if i have the texture of a brickwall and need to sculpt some gaps and stones sticking out it cant be done in voxels because i need to put the texture on first, then sculpt the details ... that would help so much.

[Mykyl]

Where is the polish brush?

Thanks

Mike R

[asche]

Where is the polish brush?

Thanks

Mike R

voxel, surface mode (litte icon next to the layer) and its called chisel (which is a way better name than polish by the way, thanks for that )

[Mykyl]

AH right. I read it wrong. I thought it was a different tool.

Cheers

Mike R

[AbnRanger]

I plan to introduce multiresolution in surface mode too.

So full pipeline will be (as I suppose):

- voxels until 5-8M (or even 1M if someone likes)

- surface + subdiv levels until very high limit

- painting over surface vertices, painting with not only color but with shaders too to achieve "faked" resolution up to many billions of polygons - because shaders can give bigger resolution. For example there is no need to paint every pore on skin, it is enough to paint with different types of shader over different areas, mixing them together.

Anyway, it is the future where we are running.

Thanks...sounds very promising.

[splodge]

Anyway, it is the future where we are running.

[philnolan3d]

Sounds like a really nice plan. I wonder about these faked billions of polygons though. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but as I understand it a shader is only good inside 3DC. What happens when you want to export to another program?

[splodge]

would it be possible to import meshes in the surface mode of the voxels ? not as voxels but as a polymesh

i really like the voxels, but for some purposes i think its quite cumbersome to do the retopology step ... i.e. if i have a basemesh, want to do some more sculpting it would be awesome to somehow unite the sculpting room with the surface tools of the voxels (if there will be a multiresolution mode in the future). is it possible to put all the surface tools into the sculting room ? or is there a different paradigm behind it ?

I'm guessing there will eventually be a way to import a mesh directly into surface mode and bypass voxel mode. I see voxels as eventually being an equivalent to ZBrush's zspheres - a good way to create a base mesh.

[artman]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but as I understand it a shader is only good inside 3DC. What happens when you want to export to another program?

Since build 3.00.08N 3DCoat can bake the color+lighting and bump of the shaders to texture maps.

This is what people do in game industry,they load model in max and use "render to texture" option

to bake shaders(ex :bake metal shader on armor parts to give big headstart for texture artists.)

3Dcoat's shader baking is better because ligthing is even,you dont need to setup a big lighting orchestra.

Also 3DCoat in surface mode can reach far more polycount than any model loaded in 3DSMax.

The only problem now is that shader editing is very incomplete(streamlined)and that it sends shaders bump inside the main normal map.

3DS Max bakes the shader properties to all needed separate texture(bump,spec,reflect ect..).

to be further tweaked by texture artists .

Anyway,from what I perceive Pilgway's direction is much more ambitious than what is currently possible to do.

Its the ability to paint and mix those shaders directly on the higres model.(Hopefully solid Editing also)

They are a few steps away from true coating power.

[artman]

- voxels until 5-8M (or even 1M if someone likes)

It has to be even less than 1 mil.

One of the main reasons why Zb and MB users want subdivision levels is to go back to use move brush with big radius to make global tweaking of character's form.

(tweak shoulder,head,pose arms differently ect while not destroying the details that are sculpted at the higher multimillion levels).

1 million is too much to use move brush comfortably with big radius.

(testing with brush as big as half a torso will help you find best start level).

It has to be 50000-300000 range.

- painting over surface vertices, painting with not only color but with shaders too to achieve "faked" resolution up to many billions of polygons - because shaders can give bigger resolution. For example there is no need to paint every pore on skin, it is enough to paint with different types of shader over different areas, mixing them together.

Masterplan!

Ps:If you implement this idea + direct import of polygon meshes with Uvs in surface mode,it would be a frightening selling point.

[philnolan3d]

Since build 3.00.08N 3DCoat can bake the color+lighting and bump of the shaders to texture maps.

This is what people do in game industry,they load model in max and use "render to texture" option

to bake shaders(ex :bake metal shader on armor parts to give big headstart for texture artists.)

Yeah LightWave also has this with the Surface Baking Camera, I understand that it could be baked to a texture, but how massive of a texture would you need to support detail that fine. Unless the idea is to have a bunch of different UV maps / textures.

[mwgrafx]

I dont want to sound like an idiot, but I dont quite understand the difference between voxel mode and surface mode. I understand voxels and the benefits. Understand how to get to surface mode. I read the manual on the benefits of surface mode, but what is the surface mode? Does it convert the voxels to polys? That is my assumption.

[philnolan3d]

I dont want to sound like an idiot, but I dont quite understand the difference between voxel mode and surface mode. I understand voxels and the benefits. Understand how to get to surface mode. I read the manual on the benefits of surface mode, but what is the surface mode? Does it convert the voxels to polys? That is my assumption.

Yes it converts them to polys. You can really see the difference if you hold W to show the wireframe while putting down a few brush strokes in each mode.

Like this: http://screencast.com/t/YjdlNzYx

[mwgrafx]

Thanks Philnolan3d. Those are some sweeeet ideas Andrew! I can't wait to see what you come up with.

[artman]

but how massive of a texture would you need to support detail that fine.

Who said the details had to be fine?

Example:A metal shader on a 7 mil metal shield.

The shield is 7 million because its covered with a bunch of scupted ornements on it.

It had to be 7 million otherwize the sculptor wouldn't have been able to sculpt all those ornements.

Im talking about ornements the size of pocket watches here,nothing microscopic.

Well the metal shader is still making it look like metal.

When you bake it you get all the ornements,the metal finish(lighting+color),even reflect if you like.

Doesnt even need a whole 1024x1024 to hold those details.

But if you had only an occlusion and normal map,painting that metal finish would take a full hour.

Its like occlusion but with material properties if I may say .

Of course you can make shader with fine details too.

EDIT:Sorry, Phil I think i misread your post,you were referring to Andrew talking about billions of polys details.

I guess people who like to do outofthisworld renders or hollywood people could do that...but,yeah it would require a whole bunch of textures.

[stevecullum]

When merging poly meshes into voxel sculpt, I get these strange artifacts. Is this a known issue - anyone else got the same problem?

[splodge]

When merging poly meshes into voxel sculpt, I get these strange artifacts. Is this a known issue - anyone else got the same problem?

Did you select 'Make mesh closed' before applying?

[stevecullum]

Tried that - doesn't make any difference. I went through all options, but still the same.

[stevecullum]

I've attached the object if anyone else wants to have a go. I'm using Cuda 64 version.