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zogthedoomed

view rotation drives me potty.

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The only program I've used that does it right is Lightwave. The imaginary trackball that you rotate in the same way that 3DCoat and many other programs use PLUS .. if you click OUTSIDE the imaginary trackball, ie outside of the circle of control .. you rotate the camera around the viewing direction, effectively the BANK value in LW. I must lose so much time trying to rotate a model into just the right place (especially given the way shading can make some areas difficult to see) yet I know in Lightwave it would be two clicks and no frustration. Honestly give it a go in Lightwave and you'll see how easy it is.

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The only program I've used that does it right is Lightwave. The imaginary trackball that you rotate in the same way that 3DCoat and many other programs use PLUS .. if you click OUTSIDE the imaginary trackball, ie outside of the circle of control .. you rotate the camera around the viewing direction, effectively the BANK value in LW. I must lose so much time trying to rotate a model into just the right place (especially given the way shading can make some areas difficult to see) yet I know in Lightwave it would be two clicks and no frustration. Honestly give it a go in Lightwave and you'll see how easy it is.

in customize navigation you can add a key+mouse combination to "roll" the camera. OR you can, as I do, use rotate around screen space instead of around vertical axis which allows easy (to me anyway) positioning of the model at whatever angle. Which, is important for exactly why you said, for seeing areas.

either way...

in the camera menu, click on customize navigation.

add an action, change it from whatever it comes up as to "roll" or "roll in screen space" and then "Assign Keys" to make it work. (As you can see I used Ctrl+Shift+RMB)

good luck...

post-2065-12563043996395_thumb.jpg

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Honestly I've been wishing I could get 3DC's navigation to work like LW since I started using it a couple of years ago. However, I've just gotten used to how it works for the most part.

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Honestly I've been wishing I could get 3DC's navigation to work like LW since I started using it a couple of years ago. However, I've just gotten used to how it works for the most part.

And I wish the "Maya" setting ACTUALLY worked like maya.

When the Y Axis is upside down, the rotation should be inverted (so the visual rotation matches the mouse direction)

as is, left / right movement ALWAYS rotates around the Y axis in the same numerical direction. so when upside down you slide your mouse right and the model rotates left. ;)

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I'm currently checking out 3DCoat 3.2 and the navigation is what is stopping me from purchasing.

I'm used to the modo (and Blender) way of navigating and it's a breeze, unlike 3DC where I am getting crazy trying to rotate the object in the direction I want it to go.

I have found no custom navigation setting that solves this.

Too bad really as 3DC really seems to be maturing.

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Keep cool. If the navigation of a 3D tool is the only reason, not to buy or use it, then an artist have more problems than this...

Come on: "This problems and a lot of money, and you are the happiest man in the world." ;)

I could say this to blender, too. I have a lot problems to navigate in blender, but no problems in industry standards tools like, maya, max or softimage. But it's ok. I will learn it, like I've learned 3D Coats navigation. Now I am switching between my softimage installation and 3D Coat without problems.

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Hey Taros.

I am cool about it you know.

I just think it's a pity that what you do the most (navigating the view) is so counter intuitive to me in 3DC.

I am looking for a way to rapidly block in models and retopo them.

3DC has the advantages over ZBrush that it has voxels (I like voxels more than ZSpheresII) and that its retopo tools are much better than ZBrush's.

And 3DC is very well priced too for the capabilities it offers.

I just can not come to terms with buying a soft when I know I will stay frustrated when simply navigating in it : I have been checking 3DC out for more than a week now and my feeling hasn't changed.

It's not my intention to bash on 3DC, not at all but for me the navigation is simply a deal breaker.

EDIT : I will continue to check out future versions though, maybe 3DC will get more customizable in the future.

But by then maybe ZBrush 4 will have been released and that might solve my problems because in ZBrush 4 I will be able to go back and forth between Modo and ZBrush with GoZ, which will significantly improve my modeling workflow in terms of speed.

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Hi 3dommi :)

I can't understand what's wrong?

LMB for rotation

MMB for panning

RMB for zooming

In Blender (which I use):

MMB for rotation

SHIFT+MMB for panning

WHEEL for zooming

I wouldn's say it's easier or more intuitive than in 3DC

Or you can customize navigation like cakeller said... Don't give up! ;)

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3DC's navigation is different from LightWave and it's a pain whenever I've been using one a lot then switch to the other. You don't hear me complaining (unless you count this post). Different programs navigate differently.

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Daniel posted :

I can't understand what's wrong?

LMB for rotation

MMB for panning

RMB for zooming

In Blender (which I use):

MMB for rotation

SHIFT+MMB for panning

WHEEL for zooming

I wouldn's say it's easier or more intuitive than in 3DC

Or you can customize navigation like cakeller said... Don't give up! ;)

Thanks and yes I know.

I even added a custom navigation for the roll of the camera.

But rotating in 3DC is just a lot harder than in LW or Modo, even ZBrush.

Just compare the two and you know what I mean.

And when sculpting, rotating around is what I do most, a lot more than the sculpting itself and I don't want to continuously have to adjust the roll of the camera when having rotated, something which in other packages happens while you are rotating.

And also when you rotate something upside down, then the rotation is inverse which leads to me continually rotating the object in another direction than I expected.

I don't even want to think about where I'm going, something I don't have to think about in just about every package I've used (Maya, Modo, ZBrush, Blender, XSI, Messiah, Lightwave).

I've checked out several releases of 3DC already and every time this stops me from buying a license, which is a huge pity.

philnolan3d posted : Different programs navigate differently.

Yep they do, but the way 3DC does it unfortunately is not intuitive enough for me.

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Just compare the two and you know what I mean.

I'm afraid to say I have compared and I don't really see. Mostly with LW and 3DC since I use that combo the most, I forget how modo works but I assume it's like LW since it's based on LW.

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philnolan3d posted: I'm afraid to say I have compared and I don't really see.

Come on, there's a huge difference as far as rotating is concerned.

I guess the best way to describe it is like in the first post where zogthedoomed rightfully says :

... "The imaginary trackball that you rotate" ... "if you click OUTSIDE the imaginary trackball, ie outside of the circle of control .. you rotate the camera around the viewing direction, effectively the BANK value in LW. I must lose so much time trying to rotate a model into just the right place"

Maybe you don't mind the way 3DC does it, but I do.

It's that 'imaginary trackball rotation' thingy that zogthedoomed talks about : in LW and Modo (and other progs) this lets you rotate objects in every single way you want in very few manipulations. I just can not do that in 3DC : it takes far too much time to rotate in the desired viewing angle for 3DC to be a time saver for me.

My aim with posting in this thread was only inspired by hope that 3DC would evolve to a soft that I like using, not to start a heated discussion here, but I seriously doubt that you don't experience the difference between the LW and 3DC way of rotating, it's so obvious...

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Oh you didn't say trackball rotation. I don't use that in LightWave, I don't like it at all.

Me neither. I switched trackball to turntable in Blender too. And feel myself very happy :yahoo:

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Continuing to explore 3DC : the retopo tools.

I was still annoyed with navigating until I switched the camera to "Rotate around current pick point".

This setting actually seems to work for me a whole lot better and this actually finally makes me feel good about 3DC :) .

As to the retopo tools : they're the best I've encountered so far.

Feels to me they alone are worth the purchase ...

I hope I will continue to feel this way and if this is the case I definitely will buy a copy of 3DC.

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I was still annoyed with navigating until I switched the camera to "Rotate around current pick point".

This setting actually seems to work for me a whole lot better and this actually finally makes me feel good about 3DC :) .

That's why you didn't like the navigation!!! :) Now I understand! Yep, I should tell you to switch to "Rotate around current pick point"! lol

Good luck with your further exploration ;)

Dan

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Whats all this then, I am pretty sure you can set it up exactly like lightwave ... (3 options being ... Rotate around vertical axis, rotate in screen space and roll in screen space) I have just done it.

Zooming doesnt zoom to pen/mouse cursor, always to screen centre i.e camera plane normal... shame.

Fit all is iffy and ocaisionally off centre and sometimes misses the mark completely.

The default should be a modo/lightwave setup, either with ZBrush ortho snapping OR even better Modo workplane ortho snapping (this is just the way to go). Having used many apps I am obviously biased, but when using a pen the last thing you want to do is be pressing buttons on it to navigate.

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Zoom to 3d-pick point - OR in other words, zoom toward mouse point - whatever it's sitting on. Also Zoom toward a fixed-picked point.

These two things would improve usability 10 fold. One of the hardest things to navigate around is inside small spaces (tunnels or eye sockets, etc.) if the zoom center (and pan center for that matter) is not related to your real-world focus, navigating around your WORKING area is a PITA!

We've been asking for this for what... over a YEAR?

PLEASE this is the biggest thing that, to me feels like it ought to be a trivial addition. Perhaps I am wrong though - perhaps it is enormously challenging? Or more than likely this wheel isn't squeeky enough - and it's just ONE MORE THING.

Zoom toward pick-point is critical, a must add!

Pan in screen units - current pick-point (so that the mouse movement across the screen is relative to the picked point)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!

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Zoom to 3d-pick point - OR in other words, zoom toward mouse point - whatever it's sitting on. Also Zoom toward a fixed-picked point.

These two things would improve usability 10 fold. One of the hardest things to navigate around is inside small spaces (tunnels or eye sockets, etc.) if the zoom center (and pan center for that matter) is not related to your real-world focus, navigating around your WORKING area is a PITA!

We've been asking for this for what... over a YEAR?

PLEASE this is the biggest thing that, to me feels like it ought to be a trivial addition. Perhaps I am wrong though - perhaps it is enormously challenging? Or more than likely this wheel isn't squeeky enough - and it's just ONE MORE THING.

Zoom toward pick-point is critical, a must add!

Pan in screen units - current pick-point (so that the mouse movement across the screen is relative to the picked point)

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!

Yes please, on all counts. :)

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Yes please, on all counts. :)

you know - more than anything (kidding with smiles) I LOVE THE TITTLE of this post... W T Heck does "Potty" mean? cracks me up every time I read it. ;)

:)

so - with that, I will repeat myself:

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!

zoom to picked point

zoom to arbitrary point

zoom current layer - zoom so the current' voxel object is centerred and fills the screen.

pan so picked point moves in screen space (not faster or slower)... it should be as if you've just grabed the object with the mouse cursor.

I don't want any new features until this is done! seriously - this is a time-sucking annoyance. think about it - zooming and panning is something you do almost as much as the strokes... so if you improve the user-efficiency by orders of magnitude, and that's what you would do by implementing these things... think of the improvement in output from the users!! --- more output = more gets done with less effort = users happier!

ok ok - I won't repeat myself again, unless this goes on another 2 months being ignored.

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I believe "potty" is European slang, like being driven around the bend. At least I've never heard any American say "around the bend".

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I believe "potty" is European slang, like being driven around the bend. At least I've never heard any American say "around the bend".

thanks - that is a funny expression - and it makes me happy :D

Wonderful improvement has been made, and not noted, that I could see, in the change-log.

It appears Andrew has made the adjustment to panning so that when you pan, it's like you're grabbing the object, not some random point in space. THIS IS FANTASTICO!

I look forward to the day when, finally, the zoom follows this paradigm.

however - it does appear that zoom no longer flies past the object, so maybe we've made a step in the right direction on that ... zooming up to the plane, on which lives, the current pick point. that's not PERFECT, but it's about 1,000,000 times better than flying through and past your object.

I LOVE when stuff improves! :D really important fundamental stuff like this - it's like being able to breath! :D

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When the Y Axis is upside down, the rotation should be inverted (so the visual rotation matches the mouse direction)

as is, left / right movement ALWAYS rotates around the Y axis in the same numerical direction. so when upside down you slide your mouse right and the model rotates left. wink.gif

This is a CONSTANT problem for me. It's not that I can't navigate in reverse, just not nearly as fast. I get all caught up adding detail and then when I go to bottom of the model I have to make this mental shift. It's pretty much the only time I have to think about the software anymore. I would LOVE a fix.

Just wondering if there is a fix for this that anyone has come accross... it would make my life easier for sure.

Otherwise, 3DC navigation has always felt beautifully intutive to me. Sculpting with my tablet is fun, easy, fast, and even relaxing compared to poly-modelling. Retopo is like a game instead of slogging through a relentless bog, and painting a 3D model feels like painting a 3D model finally.

I love this program.

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Every program is different and takes a while to get used to. Personally, even though I have used them for some time, I find myself having to find my bearings so to speak, when having a good session with 1 program then staring up another. Wouldn't it be nice if every program could be used with the same keys, but well, life wasn't meant be easy I guess. Though some AutoDesk programs you can do it to a certain degree.

My wife is a Pom, I am well familiar with potty. You get like that after eating too many mad cows.

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