Advanced Member David Walters Posted December 3, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Some tools do switch automatically but this proved to be problematic because there was a slight delay every time you lifted up the stylus, it's also caused some artifacts if I recall correctly. That's why the Surface mode was implemented so there's only one slight delay and minimal artifacts due to the switching. Oh okay, but I imagined the switch would happen only when you switch between tools - not after every stroke. A delay here wouldn't be nearly as annoying as it's reasonably fast - just not fast enough for per-stroke. Artifacts are bad though, is this why they are seperate? and assuming those were fixed - do you agree that a flat/unified set of sculpting tools should be the goal? Ultimately my point is that it seems really messy to have to manually enable 'fast mode' when it's something that could happen automatically. I don't mind that there are radically different technical implementations for these tools, but IMHO that could be streamlined by totally concealing it from the artist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted December 3, 2009 Applink Developer Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 I changed paradigm of surface tools (to test )- will it be better? Surface will be transformed to voxels not after stroke, but by request. I haven't tried this yet but it really sounds that it could work much better than the old way. And I have to say that the next update's feature list really sounds amazing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 I haven't tried this yet but it really sounds that it could work much better than the old way. And I have to say that the next update's feature list really sounds amazing... We will see. I hope there will be a lot of bug fixes, too. I'm shure the guys do their best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 From the sounds of it the next update will be 3.2, I think I recall Andrew saying that 3.2 would be delayed until some time in December, which it is now. I kind of like having the separate modes. Every complicated software will have features that are important, but may not be apparent right away. Heck, most of zbrush's features are not apparent right away! *rim shot* Even Photoshop has little tiny buttons like the Layer Panel menu. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted December 3, 2009 Contributor Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 ITs great news to see surface tools getting some love!! And new freeze tool is very intriguing and exciting news. I cant wait to use Flatten and SF.Pinch without streaks artifacts ...its gonna be like breathing fresh air!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 With all of these changes to Surfaces, I wonder if rendering in Surface mode would be any faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted December 17, 2009 Contributor Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 "E" Panel improved. All rectangular and other effects can be limited by depth and act until some limit Pretty cool! http://bit.ly/5D0pUW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member polyxo Posted December 17, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Pretty cool! http://bit.ly/5D0pUW This is a nice addition but I preferred when this worked differently, in order to follow the Tools-Logic. Ctrl generally inverts the tool-action. Therefor pressing Crtl should by default only press/cut inward with the current depth value. Its Strength is easy to adjust, we all know how that works - there's no new Slider needed. If we want to cut through instead we could e.g. press CTRL+SHIFT. Those who don't like hotkeys could instead use a Checkbox "Cut through when Subtracting" inside the E-Panel, the Depth-Limitation slider was not necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted December 17, 2009 Applink Developer Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Have to agree with you polyxo. We already have enough sliders and buttons. Now we have to think how to compine them. Maybe Ctr+Shift is better but I don't want to go too far that direcrion too. For example Everytime when I use Freeze tool I have to check tip to know how to invert freeze ( Crt + Shift + I) I just don't remember that. I haven't use this feature so it's hard to say how it works. It may work just fine in the end. I just red that it works with hide too. Niceeeee!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 17, 2009 Report Share Posted December 17, 2009 Everytime when I use Freeze tool I have to check tip to know how to invert freeze ( Crt + Shift + I) I just don't remember that. Heh I didn't realize there was a keyboard shortcut for that. It's actually pretty easy to remember since it's the same as Invert Selection in Photoshop. I'll have to try this to see how I like it. Darnnit I was all excited 'til I started reading this thread and started questioning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3DArtist Posted December 24, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 24, 2009 So, brushing speed in all modes (paint and voxels) was really improved. Can't wait to try this out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3DArtist Posted December 27, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 I improved interface visualisation scheme. During brush stroke interface processing will not take time. Andrew, have you considered doing a type of "partial redraw" (i.e. silo, blender) for painting and sculpting? It only updates the poly's that were modified or the area within a bounding box around the pen. Using partial redraw in blender really speeds up sculpting for high poly objects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 27, 2009 Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 This is what 3DC currently does with voxels. You can actually turn it off if you like, look under Voxels > Incremental Render (checkbox). It can actually cause some minor display issues like turning on or off the symmetry plane doesn't show any change until you move the camera. If you turn off Incremental Render this doesn't happen. You can see it happening if you have it on, then turn off the symmetry plane, but do not move the camera so the plane is still visible. Now paint a little over the plane. You can see the plane disappearing only around where you paint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member 3DArtist Posted December 27, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 27, 2009 This is what 3DC currently does with voxels. You can actually turn it off if you like, look under Voxels > Incremental Render (checkbox). It can actually cause some minor display issues like turning on or off the symmetry plane doesn't show any change until you move the camera. If you turn off Incremental Render this doesn't happen. You can see it happening if you have it on, then turn off the symmetry plane, but do not move the camera so the plane is still visible. Now paint a little over the plane. You can see the plane disappearing only around where you paint. I completely forgot about that, thanks. I remember seeing those artifacts. Anyway, hopefully not updating the interface while sculpting\painting will minimize the choppyness i'm getting (mainly while painting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 The latest sounds pretty exciting: -Working over (almost done) free -form primitives. You may create smooth or sharp forms using control points. -Examples - cube, cylinder, bezier plane, egg - all controlled by control points or transformed as a whole. -It will work well for creating initial forms and for both - hard surface and organic modeling. -Also, while making it, some routines was done that will make possible multiresolution in near future (in surface mode at least). -Also I hired guy to make Hypersmooth - select contour and make surface maximally smooth inside it. Waiting for results from him... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taros Posted December 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I hope there will be a better differentiation between surface- and volume mode in voxelsculpting, soon. The surface mode is growing fast and is faster in most cases than the regular voxel mode. Currently there became more an more tools, but I think some of the implemented tools could be overworked, combined or removed. Not every voxel tool is really needed, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 29, 2009 Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I will agree there are some tools that seem to do the same thing, only slightly different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member splodge Posted December 29, 2009 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 29, 2009 I hope there will be a better differentiation between surface- and volume mode in voxelsculpting, soon. The surface mode is growing fast and is faster in most cases than the regular voxel mode. Currently there became more an more tools, but I think some of the implemented tools could be overworked, combined or removed. Not every voxel tool is really needed, in my opinion. Yep. I was thinking it might be nice to see a basic mesh mode which acts as the main mode. It would act as a general scene manager where you can create primitives or import meshes etc. From the main mode you could select an object (or object group) and hit 'sculpt', 'voxelize', 'paint' or 'retopo' etc and then be taken into the corresponding mode. 'Sculpt' would become the current surface mode that's currently accessed from 'voxel' mode. So no more switching between the two modes. Instead you make your voxel object and then switch back to main mode. Then from the main mode you go into 'Sculpt' mode to add in the details with the surface tools. Edit: But wait.. perhaps change the name of the proposed 'Sculpt' mode to 'Detail'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Wondering what exactly Andrew meant by "multiresolution". Up/down res like mb and zb or more dense res where it's needed like Sculpris? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member splodge Posted January 1, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Wondering what exactly Andrew meant by "multiresolution". Up/down res like mb and zb or more dense res where it's needed like Sculpris? up/down res Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 From my conversation with Andrew, I was under the assumption it was up/down res like ZB/MB, for voxels. I believe it was using surface mode in some way as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Yeah he said it was in surface mode in the Twitter post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted January 8, 2010 Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 "Primitives cage can be tweaked using not only points but edges and faces too." This is nice, I was just wishing I could move two adjacent points at once, like I would select both and move in LightWave. Selecting an edge takes care of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted January 8, 2010 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted January 8, 2010 I'm wondering if Surfacing tools/mode aren't being worked to provide a similar workflow and alternative to ZB's and MB's, as I thought I saw a comment on one of the updates about being able to bake out a normal/displacement map...not sure if I read that wrong. If we were able to merge in a low poly model and use all the surfacing/voxel tools, and bake the results to a normal map on the original model (no need for retopologizing), that would be fantastic. That would be awesome thus saving tons of work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member JamesE Posted January 12, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 I'm wondering if Surfacing tools/mode aren't being worked to provide a similar workflow and alternative to ZB's and MB's, as I thought I saw a comment on one of the updates about being able to bake out a normal/displacement map...not sure if I read that wrong. If we were able to merge in a low poly model and use all the surfacing/voxel tools, and bake the results to a normal map on the original model (no need for retopologizing), that would be fantastic. I'm a bit confused by this since part of the reason I like and use 3dc as an alternative to zb or mud (both of which I own and have used in production) is because it allows me to not only work faster, but more fluidly by sculpting first in voxels, retopologizing over that, then uvs, then baking and painting - all within the same app. Retopologizing over a sculpt is much faster for me than buidling a poly mesh first and then sculpting detail over it. This becomes more true the more detailed and complex a project is. For simple things like head busts or the occasional low poly body it's not as noticeable, but for a detailed cinematic piece, it's much easier to retopo over a sculpt as a start and then finish off with polygon modeling. 3dc is the first app I've used where I could literally start a project from scratch and finish it within the same app. I find the need for editing polygon models by hand vert by vert is becoming more and more unnecessary in general. I love that 3dc allows for this. For me, the surface tools are only really necessary because they allow you to squeeze a bit more performance out of the app when detailing, and because they are easier to implement tools for that match zb in terms of brush control - as with the new chisel brush or pinch, for example, not to mention the freeze/masking capability. The biggest weakness in voxels for me has been the difficulty in achieving more extreme detail in sculpts. Hopefully the evolution of the surface tools will fix that. Anyway, I actually wanted to discuss this recent tweet from Andrew: "Every volume will be merged to the separate layer while merging from voxels to per-pixel. It gives much better control over baked color." I don't understand what it means. Is it only something that will happen if you want to quadrangulate from voxels or does it apply to retopologized stuff as well? WIll it create separate mesh chunks and bake their unique color/shader properties to separate UV and image maps? Or does it mean that volumes with their own shader and color settings will simply get their own image layer when baked, but stay within a single mesh/uv set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted January 12, 2010 Contributor Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Or does it mean that volumes with their own shader and color settings will simply get their own image layer when baked, but stay within a single mesh/uv set? I think its gonna be that. Just a wild guess . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member JamesE Posted January 12, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hope so! =] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted January 12, 2010 Contributor Report Share Posted January 12, 2010 Hope so! =] Yes it is!!! But it does not work with all shaders,I get marble2 but not marble1 . It works very well and the layer can be used as a mask to. The only remaining problem is shader bump being prisoner of the main normal map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 Looks like Ptex may not be a plugin after all? I made save/load scenes with Ptex support and possibility to merge from voxels/retopo to paint room using Ptex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted January 30, 2010 Contributor Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 I made save/load scenes with Ptex support and possibility to merge from voxels/retopo to paint room using Ptex. It opens possibilities for this workflow: -Voxel design with med/hires details done with surface tools- -Quadrangulation to Ptex with shader baking- -texture work on Ptex model(color,spec and depth)- -retopo and UVs using 3DCoat tools(1X lowpoly for game+ 1x higres mesh for cinematics(subdivided game lowpoly)- -texture baking tool(normal map for lowpoly,Displacement for mesh for cinematics)- You get 2 versions of same character ready for both movie and game. (Exactly like Microverts but with no artifacts due to islolated uv islands generated by automapping, and much better resolution and speed in texture work with depth, color and spec using Ptex.) Of course,I have no idea what king of displacement is using Ptex. But the screenshot Andrew posted looks very crisp. And many approaches beside this one can be thought of. Very exciting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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