Contributor artman Posted October 20, 2014 Contributor Share Posted October 20, 2014 @Andrew: What about skin simulation? I mean skin shaders and subsurface scattering. The world is not made of metal only... answer is in previous page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 21, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 21, 2014 And what if you add one more? It's already really cluttered on the top bar, IMHO. All these parameters (diffuse color, depth, spec, metalness, steady stroke, invert, etc.) should really all be in the Brush Options panel. Maybe the top bar could be customizable instead, allowing users to put what they want up there. But by default all those options, is too much. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member RobertH Posted October 21, 2014 Member Share Posted October 21, 2014 And what if you add one more? It's already really cluttered on the top bar, IMHO. All these parameters (diffuse color, depth, spec, metalness, steady stroke, invert, etc.) should really all be in the Brush Options panel. Maybe the top bar could be customizable instead, allowing users to put what they want up there. But by default all those options, is too much. +1 AbnRanger has a great suggestion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 link to Trello vote card with AbnRanger suggestion https://trello.com/c/YPBO8KNJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Aleksey Posted October 21, 2014 Advanced Member Share Posted October 21, 2014 100% on abn suggestion! i see how its borrowing on photoshops interface with the bar on top, but i think that's photoshop reminants from the old times. Should 100% be like in screenshots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Its contemplate ? Be able to work in 2.2 gamma link to Trello vote card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Personally I would hate keeping an extra panel open all the time instead of just having them available neatly at the top. Takes up too much room. Not all of us prefer having 75% of the screen filled with panels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 Personally I would hate keeping an extra panel open all the time instead of just having them available neatly at the top. Takes up too much room. Not all of us prefer having 75% of the screen filled with panels. That's why Javis mentioned it as an OPTION. Plus, what is wrong with putting all the tool parameters/options in the.......TOOL OPTIONS panel? I don't get the criticism of this. If your tool/brush has parameters to set, why fragment them all over the UI, rather than in one tidy location? What's more is, knowing all your tool options will be in the Tool Options Panel, you would naturally want to keep it in your right column, as a mainstay....just as critical as your layer panels in each room. Most tools have some sort of parameters to adjust, so complaining about it taking up space in the UI is utterly nonsensical, to me. You do know you can undock the Tool Options panel and it will just pop up whenever you use a tool/brush with options.....right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 No need to get all defensive, just sharing an opinion, like others have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 No need to get all defensive, just sharing an opinion, like others have done. I understand that, but I'm just expressing my opinion that it makes more sense to put all the controls in one location than spreading them all over the UI. Think about how the new user feels seeing all these different parameters, littered all over the place. Artman criticized the request, too...and I just don't get it. It's NOT adding another panel to the UI, taking up more space. It's consolidating parameters so that they take up LESS space. I'm sure Andrew could make it optional, so we are all happy, but if this community is divided on the idea...guess which feature request gets pushed back to the end of the line? That's right...the one folks don't agree on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 ...plus myself and Beat spent hours on our mockups to show Andrew what better consolidation would look like. If you spent your own valuable time toward a request, you naturally are going to take it a little personal when someone walks up and urinates all over the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 To keep order, will all suggestion, discussion, opinions about UI be done in another specific thread ? Open a new one if needed. One thing is to talk about top UI cluttered by tools, just to keep Andrew attention about an issue. Another is a wall of text in a thread titled What Andrew is currently doing. Please: order If not... i move all the post unrelated to this thread to another new. ty all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 If you want the same functionality (i.e. having it visible all the time) It does mean an extra panel. I don't normally have these type of options visible all the time in a panel so that means one extra panel to show them in. Also, sharing an opinion politely is not "urinating" as you so crudely put it. I'll keep quite on the topic now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Fast Floating tool panel is useful for that, but need more love for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 To keep order, will all suggestion, discussion, opinions about UI be done in another specific thread ? Open a new one if needed. One thing is to talk about top UI cluttered by tools, just to keep Andrew attention about an issue. Another is a wall of text in a thread titled What Andrew is currently doing. Please: order If not... i move all the post unrelated to this thread to another new. ty all Carlos, it's relative to Javis' request to put the PBR controls in the Tool Options or Brush Options panel....to keep from cluttering the UI up further. This has been a long-standing request, with lots of Yay votes. For some reason, Artman and Phil are trying to shoot down the idea. Thus the discussion. But it does relate to "what Andrew is doing." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 Ranger Both solutions are good, i agree. I prefer Tool option because i like to have all the info related in ONE window so the mouse only move in ONE direction. is fast But... what about users as Phil and others that dont like the new workflow ? my suggestion to make it optional: let it be hide/unhide as left tool panel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 If you want the same functionality (i.e. having it visible all the time) It does mean an extra panel. I don't normally have these type of options visible all the time in a panel so that means one extra panel to show them in. Also, sharing an opinion politely is not "urinating" as you so crudely put it. I'll keep quite on the topic now. It does NOT mean the addition of another panel! Most of the tools in 3D Coat involve a TOOL OPTION. If you want to keep an Attributes panel hidden you are in the vast minority. It would be like trying to hide the Attributes Panel/Channel Box in Maya or the Command Panel in Max. Sure some users might want to hide them, but the vast majority of users leave them up because they have to use it 90% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted October 24, 2014 Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 Funny thing: I saw those message quickly on my phone, didn't look at the author, and figured it was Phil going all "nay" on an OPTION suggestion. Guess there's a pattern... As always: the original talk back in 2011 was all about OPTION (see the top bar !) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 Currently, every time a user wants to select a new tool they have to move all over the UI to make adjustments: 1) E-Panel 2) Brush Alpha's 3) Brush Options Panel 4) Tool Options Panel 5) Toolbar/CTRL & CTRL + SHIFT options/Ghosting And rather than consolidating that down to 3, you claim it would ADD another panel? That makes no sense. In any given room, there are 3 main panels that should be accessible at all times. 1) Layers 2) Tool Options 3) Brush Options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 Funny thing: I saw those message quickly on my phone, didn't look at the author, and figured it was Phil going all "nay" on an OPTION suggestion. Guess there's a pattern... As always: the original talk back in 2011 was all about OPTION (see the top bar !) I really like that one, Beat. Everything all in one nice, tidy panel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted October 24, 2014 Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 I think it would help, but to be honest (and that's only because of my workflow): I don't really care about those now. I would prefer to have centralized access if I want to, but at this point I only use presets, and only vary brush size and depth. The rest I never touch... But if I put myself in an objective "new user" perspective: the params are too scattered. My mockup actually centralized 4 UI "panels": topbar (at the time, it changed), stroke options, tool options and a bit of e panel. And again, just a mockup, at the time the idea was to offer choice not make them mandatory: the sections could be "tear off" enabled/collapsables, and the subsections (little lines with arrow) collapsed to keep more space. It was about centralization, space efficiency, and customization/choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted October 24, 2014 Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 Carlos, it's relative to Javis' request to put the PBR controls in the Tool Options or Brush Options panel....to keep from cluttering the UI up further. This has been a long-standing request, with lots of Yay votes. For some reason, Artman and Phil are trying to shoot down the idea. Thus the discussion. But it does relate to "what Andrew is doing." Trying to shoot down ?!... I haven't replied or posted anything relative to Javis' request to put the PBR controls in the Tool Options or Brush Options panel....So please Don, don't make me a part of your little war here.You guys can do whatever you want with the Ui ,Im confident I'll find my way around...anyway,this has nothing to do with Andrew's twitter feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 Trying to shoot down ?!... I haven't replied or posted anything relative to Javis' request to put the PBR controls in the Tool Options or Brush Options panel....So please Don, don't make me a part of your little war here.You guys can do whatever you want with the Ui ,Im confident I'll find my way around...anyway,this has nothing to do with Andrew's twitter feed. Yes...you opposed my requests to move the toolbar to the Tool Options Panel, in another thread, previously. You made the same claim Phil did....that it would force you to display yet another panel. Again, Beat and I spent a good deal of our own free time to create the mockups so Andrew and others here, would have a better idea what it would look like. Just because you might not find it helpful, it doesn't mean the vast majority of users wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted October 24, 2014 Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 Don't go all rage AbnRanger, I also remember Artman saying he wasn't bothered by one way or another (which he said again here). I honestly can't say he was adamantly against it there (and certainly wasn't earlier, he just underlined a few issues which are valid). There's a slight difference in bringing doubts to a proposition and saying "no it's not good, I don't want it" when we're talking options Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 24, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 24, 2014 Don't go all rage AbnRanger, I also remember Artman saying he wasn't bothered by one way or another (which he said again here). I honestly can't say he was adamantly against it there. Well, even before I ever made the mockups, there were a number of people requesting roughly the same thing. So, I know it's not just you, me and Javis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlosan Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 Other example of material in upcoming 3D-Coat with PBR support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted October 25, 2014 Reputable Contributor Share Posted October 25, 2014 Other example of material in upcoming 3D-Coat with PBR support. Wonder what material that is supposed to be? Ceramic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted October 25, 2014 Contributor Share Posted October 25, 2014 It could also be painted wood where the grain shows on edges with a bit of wear, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor BeatKitano Posted October 26, 2014 Contributor Share Posted October 26, 2014 Painted wood or cardboard with edge wear. I'm wondering how that work though. I mean this obviously detect angle to apply wear or there's masking involved. Meaning substances are already in ? Or masks are ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Yeah, I was thinking wood, but cardboard works too. Either way very nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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