newbie questions on UV Mapping?

[3dCoatWannabe]

I've read descriptions and watched a few videos, but I'm still a bit confused.

1. Is the main purpose of UV Mapping to allow the user to sculpt a model in 3D-Coat, paint on an surface, retopologize the model, UV Unwrap the model, and finally in a poly modeling and animation tool like Lightwave, take the UV map and apply it to the poly model?

2. Does 3D-Coat perform all the necessary UV Mapping operations? I read the Avatar Issue of HDRI 3D, where the author mentioned using UVLayout, and seemed to think it was better than badword. I'm kind of hoping that 3D-Coat is a more elegant solution than UVLayout.

3. Any basic question I'm missed. As you can see, I don't even know what I don't know - yet!

Thanks!

[AbnRanger]

I've read descriptions and watched a few videos, but I'm still a bit confused.

1. Is the main purpose of UV Mapping to allow the user to sculpt a model in 3D-Coat, paint on an surface, retopologize the model, UV Unwrap the model, and finally in a poly modeling and animation tool like Lightwave, take the UV map and apply it to the poly model?

2. Does 3D-Coat perform all the necessary UV Mapping operations? I read the Avatar Issue of HDRI 3D, where the author mentioned using UVLayout, and seemed to think it was better than badword. I'm kind of hoping that 3D-Coat is a more elegant solution than UVLayout.

3. Any basic question I'm missed. As you can see, I don't even know what I don't know - yet!

Thanks!

No...UV's just interpret 3D coordinates into 2 dimensional maps, so anytime you go to painting, it is going on an image map (including depth channel that gets exported as Normal and Bump maps). Before you go to painting it, you need to add UV's, if you didn't do them in the host program. Last fall Andrew did a major overhaul of the UV tools, and you would be hard pressed to find a better solution, IMHO. I don't do UV Unwrapping in 3ds Max anymore, as they are much faster and easier done in 3DC.

[Yearoftheox]

No...UV's just interpret 3D coordinates into 2 dimensional maps, so anytime you go to painting, it is going on an image map (including depth channel that gets exported as Normal and Bump maps). Before you go to painting it, you need to add UV's, if you didn't do them in the host program. Last fall Andrew did a major overhaul of the UV tools, and you would be hard pressed to find a better solution, IMHO. I don't do UV Unwrapping in 3ds Max anymore, as they are much faster and easier done in 3DC.

I agree 3dc Is great for quick uv layouts, 90% perfect,but in organic uvs there is always some distortion that I find hard to tweak out in 3dc, But being able to paint directly on the model negates that pretty much.

answer to question 2- 3dc can auto-unwrap uvs for you, but Learning to do it yourself will always give better results.

[3dCoatWannabe]

No...UV's just interpret 3D coordinates into 2 dimensional maps, so anytime you go to painting, it is going on an image map (including depth channel that gets exported as Normal and Bump maps). Before you go to painting it, you need to add UV's, if you didn't do them in the host program. Last fall Andrew did a major overhaul of the UV tools, and you would be hard pressed to find a better solution, IMHO. I don't do UV Unwrapping in 3ds Max anymore, as they are much faster and easier done in 3DC.

I'm still a bit confused.

Does it work like this? All steps in 3D-Coat except for #6

1. Sculpt in 3D-Coat

2. Add UV's to model (by adding UV's, you are also adding the 'instructions' to unwrap them later?)

3. Paint on model

4. Retopologize

5. UnWrap the model

6. Open the model in Lightwave, etc. and apply the UV Map from the UnWrap step to get the appearance of the original sculpted model?

Thanks!

[Yearoftheox]

I'm still a bit confused.

Does it work like this? All steps in 3D-Coat except for #6

1. Sculpt in 3D-Coat

2. Add UV's to model (by adding UV's, you are also adding the 'instructions' to unwrap them later?)

3. Paint on model

4. Retopologize

5. UnWrap the model

6. Open the model in Lightwave, etc. and apply the UV Map from the UnWrap step to get the appearance of the original sculpted model?

Thanks!

My workflow is more like...

1. Sculpt

2. Retopo

3. Uv retopo (also called unwrap)

4. Merge into scene for per pixel painting

5. Paint

6. Export model as obj for 3ds max * (which I cant do any more because my demo ran out.)

Im not sure how light wave handles the export, but most likley your uv's and maps will all be apllied when you import in lightwave.

[philnolan3d]

It's funny you mention that issue of HDRI3D, I just came from picking it up at the store like 2 hrs ago. I saw the article on UV Layout but I haven't had a chance to read it yet. However I have tried the demo of UV Layout a couple years ago. Assuming hasn't changed much it's very similar to an old tutorial I wrote for UV mapping in LW. William Vaughan did a video version of that tutorial here (of course I got no credit, thanks William). It gets the job done OK, but I feel like 3DC does the job better and with more control.

My workflow is more like...

1. Sculpt

2. Retopo

3. Uv retopo (also called unwrap)

4. Merge into scene for per pixel painting

5. Paint

6. Export model as obj for 3ds max * (which I cant do any more because my demo ran out.)

Im not sure how light wave handles the export, but most likley your uv's and maps will all be apllied when you import in lightwave.

This is the same technique I use except substituting .LWO for .OBJ. Exporting for LW actually works better than the other formats because the .LWO export is all set up for you with the textures already applied to the model including the nodes set up for the normal map. So all you have to do is load it into LW and you're ready to go.

BTW there's my original tutorial, it's still on NewTek's server, just hidden so you can't find it easily and the page design is messed up.

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave_old/tutorials/uvmapping/ClothFX/index.php

[AbnRanger]

UV layout/Unwrapping is generally the last step before doing textures, as that is the step needed to make sure you have a good, even distribution of pixels when your maps are applied to the model. Auto-UV mapping may work for very primitive shaped objects, but 95% of the time, you want to set them up manually. You'll run into all kinds of issues (stretching, seams...you may want to have islands joined, etc.), if you don't. One of the most tedious aspects of UV layout/Unwrapping is selecting all your seams....if it's a relatively complex model, like a character. There is nothing faster than 3DC for this task. With the Shift Key held down you can select entire edge loops in a single click. If you want to select a specific portion of an edgeloop instead, you can click the edge where you want to start, click the one where you want to end and hit Shift to select all in between. Check out this video tutorial, for a little more explanation, and the one following that is not 3DC, but you can observe where the seams are being placed, and study it to see where and perhaps why they chose to place them where they did.

This is a really efficient Unwrapping plugin I have for 3ds Max, that uses the same flattening method 3DC does. The difference for me is seam selection isn't as fast and efficient as 3DC's, nor are the relaxing methods as simple and efficient as those in 3DC.

http://www.raylightgames.com/xrayunwrap/xrayunwrap.htm

Video tutorials

http://www.raylightgames.com/xrayunwrap/video.htm

[3dCoatWannabe]

I'm starting to appreciate UV Mapping (at least until Ptex makes it irrelevant sometime in the future).

I purchased a 3ds model converted to Lightwave with some UV Mapped eyes that are slightly messed up.

1. Is it possible for me to create new UV Maps for the Lighwave object using 3D-Coat?

2. Are there any non-obvious steps to accomplish this I should know about?

BTW - would love to see Lightwave & Modo added to the tutorials on

http://www.3d-coat.com/tutorial/connection-with-other-apps/

Thanks!

[AbnRanger]

I'm starting to appreciate UV Mapping (at least until Ptex makes it irrelevant sometime in the future).

I purchased a 3ds model converted to Lightwave with some UV Mapped eyes that are slightly messed up.

1. Is it possible for me to create new UV Maps for the Lighwave object using 3D-Coat?

2. Are there any non-obvious steps to accomplish this I should know about?

BTW - would love to see Lightwave & Modo added to the tutorials on

http://www.3d-coat.com/tutorial/connection-with-other-apps/

Thanks!

UV maps carry over with OBJ's and LWO's if they were ever created. You can clear the one that was imported into 3DC if you want...that's up to you. As soon as you go into the UV Room, you can see what they look like.

[Nyteshade]

BTW there's my original tutorial, it's still on NewTek's server, just hidden so you can't find it easily and the page design is messed up.

http://www.newtek.com/lightwave_old/tutorials/uvmapping/ClothFX/index.php

Sorry for hijacking the thread....Oh I could kiss you!! I had an old tutorial on making hair bookmarked and thought it was lost for good...didn't know I just had to plugin _old to see it again! Thank you thank you thank you!!

[philnolan3d]

Sorry for hijacking the thread....Oh I could kiss you!! I had an old tutorial on making hair bookmarked and thought it was lost for good...didn't know I just had to plugin _old to see it again! Thank you thank you thank you!!

Well assuming that's actually you in your avatar I don't think I'd complain! Yeah I actually just found out about that _old thing a few days before I posted it here.

[probiner]

Sorry for hijacking the thread....Oh I could kiss you!! I had an old tutorial on making hair bookmarked and thought it was lost for good...didn't know I just had to plugin _old to see it again! Thank you thank you thank you!!

Always good to know several creative ways to solve things.

I would not go anymore to layout to make that type of UV. PLG can make that relaxation nice and easy.

Cheers

[AbnRanger]

Well assuming that's actually you in your avatar I don't think I'd complain! Yeah I actually just found out about that _old thing a few days before I posted it here.

And assuming that's you in your avatar, I think she would (complain).

[Nyteshade]

And assuming that's you in your avatar, I think she would (complain).

[3dCoatWannabe]

UV maps carry over with OBJ's and LWO's if they were ever created. You can clear the one that was imported into 3DC if you want...that's up to you. As soon as you go into the UV Room, you can see what they look like.

Ok, I imported a Lightwave object (originally created in 3ds so UV map was a bit off) of a spherical eye, removed the irregular looking UV map, added a loop down the middle and created a new UV Map composed of two identical looking circles.

In the original 3ds model, there's an image of the eyeball that maps onto the eye, but the eye is several degrees off in its alignment.

1. Can I display the eye's image on the eye while in 3DCoat and position it properly - or do position it using 'Transform UV' in Lightwave?

2. Is it possible to bring in in the eye's image, which has two highlights, and paint over one of them in 3D Coat?

3. Is the output from 3D Coat going to be a UV Map inside the LWO object and also an image file that I'd have to associate in Lightwave with the UV Map?

I guess I'm a bit confused about how the 'coats' created in 3D Coat end up being used in Lightwave (which I'm also learning).

[3dCoatWannabe]

I was able to generate the UV Map and bring in the low poly LWO into Lightwave.

However, even though I can see the UV Map and position it (with the orginal, I can see the image position change on the right as I move the UV Map on the left), the image does not show up as mapped on the right in Texture view.

This is the 3D Coat UV map (with no image showing on the Texture view on the far right).

and this is the original UV Ma (with an image showing on the Texture map on the far right).

What obvious thing and I doing wrong?

[philnolan3d]

I can't tell when the UV map names are or anything but do you have the correct map chosen in the Surface editor?

Here:

[3dCoatWannabe]

I noticed that the LWO object exported from 3D Coat didn't have anything setup in the surfaces (which it did when imported), so was able to see the image on the eye finally when I set that up in 'surface editor' (thanks Phil!).

1. Is there a way to have an exported LWO from 3D Coat keep the initial setups of the imported object (with the exception of the new UV Map)?

I'd like to us 3D Coat for all Lightwave/Modo UV mapping if possible, so I need to know what doesn't make it thru an import/export.

2. Obviously, my choice of a UV map was not a good one to map that image. Is there a way to preview a mapped image in 3D Coat? I understand that this is a different use than for painting, but again, I'm hoping to be able to use 3D Coat for a lot of purposes.

3. Is it possible to create a Lightwave UV Map for an image, and then paint over that image to some degree, and then output the LWO with all this preserved? I'm a bit fuzzy on that.

I'll continue reading on UV Mapping! Thanks!

[philnolan3d]

I'm not 100% sure I'm following but you can do some of the painting in Photoshop or whatever, then load your model into 3DC, then Go to Textures > Import > Diffuse Map. That might be a little confusing if you're just getting into 3D and starting with LW. Some 3D apps like max & maya call their color "diffuse" for some reason. 3DC says Color in some places and Diffuse in others but it's always referring to a color texture.

[3dCoatWannabe]

I'm not 100% sure I'm following but you can do some of the painting in Photoshop or whatever, then load your model into 3DC, then Go to Textures > Import > Diffuse Map. That might be a little confusing if you're just getting into 3D and starting with LW. Some 3D apps like max & maya call their color "diffuse" for some reason. 3DC says Color in some places and Diffuse in others but it's always referring to a color texture.

Phil - I tried importing the diffuse map, and got this:

I guess what I was hoping for, is a way to import my Lightwave LWO model that already has a UV Map setup in surfaces, replace that UV map with one created in 3D Coat, be able to see what the image would look like on the UV map, position the UV map in 3D Coat so that the image 'lines up properly', export the LWO object with surfaces setup, and use that in Lightwave unchanged.

1. Am I reaching too far with trying to use 3D Coat to UV Map an existing image?

2. If I forget about the case of using UV Maps to map an existing image like an eye ball - I'll be able to paint with Ptex, retopologize and UV, then export and LWO object that references the UV Map and the ?? images ?? created by 3D Coat that store the Ptex painting in a form Lightwave can understand?

Thanks!