3D-Coat 3.3 updates thread

[AbnRanger]

Currently impossible to autoretopo regular meshes. Only voxel models can be autoretopologized. That is a point I mentioned some posts before, we need this function in the future.

@Michalis: I can understand your point of view. If you really have this isses on the mac (what seems to be), then this problems should be fixed soon, there is no discussion about it.

Best wishes

Chris

I have a hard time understanding the logic behind trying to RETOPO an OBJ without merging into Voxels first. Even if you could, why is it such a hindrance to merge the model to voxels, when you are building a completely new mesh? Why does it matter if you're building it from an OBJ or a Voxel model? One or two clicks for a one time procedure? Are we really going to make an issue of a click or two?

[Crispy4004]

Yeah, just import you model as a voxel. Problem solved. Worked fine for me.

[philnolan3d]

If you're building a non-closed model it can be a hindrance. Suppose it's a game environment for example where you're inside a building. Sure you could make it solid, but it's extra work. Or if someone game you a character model and the mouth / eyes are not water tight. The "make mesh closed" button isn't always ideal for some meshes.

[AbnRanger]

If you're building a non-closed model it can be a hindrance. Suppose it's a game environment for example where you're inside a building. Sure you could make it solid, but it's extra work. Or if someone game you a character model and the mouth / eyes are not water tight. The "make mesh closed" button isn't always ideal for some meshes.

Good point, but I guess I'd have to see it in practice. When building a retopo mesh, it doesn't really matter if the mouth is closed and solid, you build what you want, where you want...the substance underneath (voxel or geometry) is not so important. Game artists are going to have pretty tight models, and 3ds Max has built-in mesh diagnosis tools. So, you won't have an experienced Max artist having those issues. I'm sure that is the case with other major 3D applications as well.

[philnolan3d]

I actually thought of a perfect example after posting. A while back I did a job that was all retopology. I had to retopo the clothing for 14 characters. Here's the shirt for one of them before retopo. You can see it's totally open and worked fine to retopo manually, but would be some extra work to get it done with the new quadrangulation.

http://screencast.com/t/Y2M2NjMwYzQ

[ifxs]

If you're building a non-closed model it can be a hindrance. Suppose it's a game environment for example where you're inside a building. Sure you could make it solid, but it's extra work. Or if someone game you a character model and the mouth / eyes are not water tight. The "make mesh closed" button isn't always ideal for some meshes.

I've run into this too, I now use the "solidify" modifier in blender 2.5 that automatically solidifies a mesh with non-destructive thickness and edge-tuning. It helps(me at least) before bringing the mesh into 3D Coat. I use this for certain meshes that aren't solid before merging as voxels. This ROCKS for clothing & architecture IMO. Lots of this has been in 3DSMAx for some time, but is now in blender(free & open-source ;-)

http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-250/solidify-modifier/

[philnolan3d]

Yeah that's the same as the free Thicken plugin for LW from DStorm, though not sure if you can set the thickness amount in real world scale or surface names.

[michalis]

Michalis if 3DC is crucial for your work you should buy PC, most ported application crashes on MAC including Zbrush, go and read the forums.There is simple solution - buy PC,MAC people are niche market and they should be happy app are ported at all, there are consistent reports about many serious app crashing under Macs and there must a reason for that, it's too complicated to port or there is something messed up with mac OS.

@Taurus

What is messed up here is probably your thoughts about OSs.

I may trash 3DC but I wont trash OSX my friends. I have to remind you that I bought the mac version.

If this "buy windows, buy the win 3DC version" will be official then Andrew should stop the mac version immediately!

Andrew has a very different opinion from all of you here, after some PM I'm very sure about it.

But all these sound like nonsense to me. The problems of 3DC probably exist on PC version too, I started a new thread about this here

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6190

If you want to participate you're most welcome, I wont continue this discussion here.

BTW can you re-topo or even texture this shirt in 3DC? I started and soon I had to export to blender to finish it and most importantly to texture it. Seams have to be visible sometimes lol.

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6148&view=findpost&p=46527

[lc8b105]

Don't take this into a Mac - PC war.

If there are bugs, let's help Andrew to fix them one by one. (Provides him the steps as details as possible to reproduce the bug)

[Taros]

Yup, just as I thought, this Auto Re-topo stuff rocks. Best of all, I can have all the benefits of apps like Mesh Mixer and Sculptris without worrying about the tris.

There is still room for improvement, I had to maybe an hour of work in Maya cleaning up the symmetry line and the fingers, but I'm absolutely convinced this is the future.

Why modify it in Maya? You have a lot of good tools in 3DC too. Try them.

[Taurus]

I've run into this too, I now use the "solidify" modifier in blender 2.5 that automatically solidifies a mesh with non-destructive thickness and edge-tuning. It helps(me at least) before bringing the mesh into 3D Coat. I use this for certain meshes that aren't solid before merging as voxels. This ROCKS for clothing & architecture IMO. Lots of this has been in 3DSMAx for some time, but is now in blender(free & open-source ;-)

http://www.blender.org/development/release-logs/blender-250/solidify-modifier/

What's the big deal ? Silo had thicken called there 'shell' for years already - is there any difference between the one in Silo and Blender?

Guys - Is it possible to make this autoretopo mesh more lowpoly when doing autoretopo ?

[ifxs]

I was just pointing out that there are lots of solidify options for architecture and clothing(or the like), from many different apps(I mentioned 3DS Max too).

I mentioned blender(and Max, and could have mentioned other apps with non-destructive modeling modifiers), because I like non-destructive modifiers, and didn't know what I was missing until I started using them years ago. I used to snicker at my 3DS Max friends(way back in the day) until I actually used a modifier and did an about-face(years and years ago ;-). One of the reasons I dont use lightwave(and other 3d modeling apps) much anymore, is IMO a lack of non-destructive modeling options, I'm not sure about silo though, havent used it for some time now(though Silo is a VERY solid app IMO). Plus, I figured i'd mention blender because anyone not familiar with the method could try it for FREE, a benefit IMO compared to other 3d suites/apps. I meant no disrespect to anyone who favors any particular app, I use many apps for what I feel they do best in my particular workflow.

[renderdemon]

About using autoretopo with obj,I'm not sure if it's possible.

Voxel have a special meshing(tri meshing),that probably is used as the starting of the computation for the new mesh.

Probably if Andrew will give support for obj,at the end,3dcoat will do(internally) what you can do yet,so importing a mesh,transforming in a voxel and after doing a new mesh with autoretopo.

Remeshing doesn't need a huge mesh as starting point(more than 20 millions),so converting in voxel should be safe.

Of course if the mesh is not periodic you have to close it first,but I don't thik it's a great problem(if you use a mesh for concept sculpt probably it will be always a cube,a sphere,a torus or some kind of simple closed humanoid/creature primitive)

And autoretopo should help here,IMO it's not a replacement for modelling skills.

[michalis]

Just curious. How many time it could take to manually retopo fast at 100 poly (some tri are acceptable) and use subdivide and snapping? Topology could be even better then. There's a problem though, snapping wont work. Have a good day all of you.

[AbnRanger]

Just curious. How many time it could take to manually retopo fast at 100 poly (some tri are acceptable) and use subdivide and snapping? Topology could be even better then. There's a problem though, snapping wont work. Have a good day all of you.

Are you trying to be sarcastic here? Why the attitude lately? If you have a pressing issue, contact Andrew directly and see if you can get a resolution more effectively than trying to poison the whole pot here on the forums?

I just don't understand what is going on here with a few members. It seems the more Andrew does, the more people come forward to complain. I mean he has tackled a lot of major bottlenecks in the past few months and is trying to let us in early on a major new feature, and already people like yourself are dumping on it.

EDIT: I was very frustrated too, a while back with certain bottlenecks and some bugs, and felt like they weren't being heard or addressed. After a quick discussion with Andrew, I realized voicing those frustrations here on the forum, was not the most productive way to get a resolution. Not trying to preach...just pointing out lessons learned the hard way, I guess.

[geo_n]

Are you trying to be sarcastic here? Why the attitude lately? If you have a pressing issue, contact Andrew directly and see if you can get a resolution more effectively than trying to poison the whole pot here on the forums?

I just don't understand what is going on here with a few members. It seems the more Andrew does, the more people come forward to complain. I mean he has tackled a lot of major bottlenecks in the past few months and is trying to let us in early on a major new feature, and already people like yourself are dumping on it.

I think he said english is not his first language.

Anyway I think out of the thousand of 3dcoat users only a few are complaining, that's a good sign. Other softwares, so many complaints. Hehe.

[Andrew Shpagin]

I know about michalis's issues. And they are in high priory queue, but I should finish current task (quadrangulation) first, othervice it will be really difficult to me. If I have essentially unfinished stuff and have to drop it to solve other issue that will take several days I feel itself really not good. Of course I am resolving urgent tasks that come to e-mail. So if some task is urgent, just drop it to email with clear description.

[splodge]

[juanmanuel]

Agreed.

[digman]

Hi all, I been taking a break from computers but still have been following with keen interest 3DCoat's development, Great work Andrew on your new quadranqulation routine. I'm working on some acrylic paintings and painting stuff I get at the thrift store...

[philnolan3d]

Hi all, I been taking a break from computers...

Blasphemy!

[Taurus]

Fill tool in paint mode should be fixed as soon as possible, many features in this tools are broken and it's most important tool in paint mode

3DC priority should be very simple :

1) Bugs first

2) New features later

New features will make people happy they are always hungry for new stuff but fixing bugs won't make people frustrated.

[philnolan3d]

If you have bugs to report, please post them in their individual support forums where Andrew can see them and fix them more easily.

[AbnRanger]

Fill tool in paint mode should be fixed as soon as possible, many features in this tools are broken and it's most important tool in paint mode

3DC priority should be very simple :

1) Bugs first

2) New features later

New features will make people happy they are always hungry for new stuff but fixing bugs won't make people frustrated.

Can you do a brief video screen capture of the problems in practice and send Andrew a copy of the file you're working on (I usually zip it and if it's too big to attach to an e-mail, then use something like Adrive.com to store it and then send a link to it).

The more you can do to help Andrew go straight to the problem the quicker it will get resovled. Vague assertions that a tool is not working doesn't help a great deal, because oftentimes when he tries on his end, it works properly.

However, if he sees it demonstrated by video, not only does it show how it's occurring, but he may be able to pick up on some small thing that points to the heart of the problem. For example....the Strokes tool. If it's having trouble when "snap to outer surface" as opposed to "snap to nearest"...he may be able to see that it's having trouble with thin objects or something.

It's a bit of a hassle to have to go through these steps, but the result is worth it.

[philnolan3d]

I personally find Jing is best for this. It's super easy and free, including free hosting of the videos. Andrew uses it himself.

[Javis]

Can you do a brief video screen capture of the problems in practice and send Andrew a copy of the file you're working on (I usually zip it and if it's too big to attach to an e-mail, then use something like Adrive.com to store it and then send a link to it).

The more you can do to help Andrew go straight to the problem the quicker it will get resovled. Vague assertions that a tool is not working doesn't help a great deal, because oftentimes when he tries on his end, it works properly.

However, if he sees it demonstrated by video, not only does it show how it's occurring, but he may be able to pick up on some small thing that points to the heart of the problem. For example....the Strokes tool. If it's having trouble when "snap to outer surface" as opposed to "snap to nearest"...he may be able to see that it's having trouble with thin objects or something.

It's a bit of a hassle to have to go through these steps, but the result is worth it.

Quote for agreement. This is the kind of stuff that will help solve an issue.

I personally find Jing is best for this. It's super easy and free, including free hosting of the videos. Andrew uses it himself.

Indeed, it's free and easy to use. Video demos of bugs are uber helpful.

[Ghostdog]

If you have bugs to report, please post them in their individual support forums where Andrew can see them and fix them more easily.

Not having a go at you Phil, but I don't visit much these days as this particular thread seems at times to be a free-for-all-comments at times and I just don't have the energy to sift through for update juice. Reading your response about the bug report, shouldn't this particular thread be update-related only?

Ok I feel better now... carry on - nothing to see here

Robbie

[Taurus]

Can you do a brief video screen capture of the problems in practice and send Andrew a copy of the file you're working on (I usually zip it and if it's too big to attach to an e-mail, then use something like Adrive.com to store it and then send a link to it).

The more you can do to help Andrew go straight to the problem the quicker it will get resovled.

I don't want to jump on anybody and demand personal attention .There is bug report forum and I think posting there is enough ?

The problem is you post on the bug report forum and you have no idea if your bug report has been noticed to-do/fixed or rejected as non-existent.

The are already multiple bug reports about fill tool but there is no idea if they have been noticed by the developer.

I wrote about it in this thread - like most people write here their wishes and demands - because Andrew shows up here so there is at least some probability he will notice it.

[PolyHertz]

I saw theirs going to be the ability to paint density via freeze in an upcoming build (via twitter). If it hasn't already been suggested, would be nice to have a density-by-angle auto-paint feature. So if the surface is more curved it'll be denser then a flat area.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Fill tool in paint mode should be fixed as soon as possible, many features in this tools are broken and it's most important tool in paint mode

3DC priority should be very simple :

1) Bugs first

2) New features later

New features will make people happy they are always hungry for new stuff but fixing bugs won't make people frustrated.

I agree and usually I do bugfixes until almost nothing is reported - and then start something new. While doing this new thing I am really not able to pay much attention to bug reports. But after finishing new feature I am beginning to fix all scope of bugs. It is my usual workflow.

EDIT: And I feel that I should make some short pause in autoretopo development (several days) to be able to fix the load of bugs. So my plan is to finish waht is possible for today, fix bugs for several days and make update during Sunday-Monday.