3D-Coat 3.3 updates thread

[philnolan3d]

Here's a little test I did with the retopo earlier today (before the real update was released). I painted density for the hands and the face, including ears and jaw line. Also placed some quick strokes along major shapes. maybe this is fixed in the real release, but I noticed when smoothing the density freeze by holding shift, symmetry doesn't work.

[AbnRanger]

Thanks Andrew...coming along nicely.

[splodge]

Getting better!

[philstopford]

The Mac build seems to be a couple of revisions behind. Is there a scheduled update for this version of 3D Coat?

[lino]

Here's a little test I did with the retopo earlier today (before the real update was released). I painted density for the hands and the face, including ears and jaw line. Also placed some quick strokes along major shapes. maybe this is fixed in the real release, but I noticed when smoothing the density freeze by holding shift, symmetry doesn't work.

Looking at the image, I really think the produced topology is so far from being nearly usable (well, to be true, everything I see looks wrong to me). I'm sure 3d Coat auto-retopology can produce better results...this feature can really be a big time saver.

This is a lot more encouraging:

Very cool video!

I'm not sure a full autoretopology tool is the best way to go. Maybe being able to apply that to masked/selected parts of a model would be great!

[Maximus3D]

Thanks for the new update, it looks promising!

I have tested it late last night and i stumbled upon a annoying problem, as soon as i import any object for autoretopo it comes in as a completly black mesh, i can't see what it is by adjusting lightintensity, angle or anything else. This makes it very difficult to use. Same problem happens in both the DX and the OpenGL version of 3DC.

/ Magnus

[AbnRanger]

Looking at the image, I really think the produced topology is so far from being nearly usable (well, to be true, everything I see looks wrong to me). I'm sure 3d Coat auto-retopology can produce better results...this feature can really be a big time saver.

This is a lot more encouraging:

Very cool video!

I'm not sure a full autoretopology tool is the best way to go. Maybe being able to apply that to masked/selected parts of a model would be great!

Well, for a feature that really is still in Beta stage, and when you compare it to what was available previously, it's pretty remarkable. There are tons of things I can use this on and be totally happy with the results. It was never intended to be a final solution for everything. It was a parameterized (evenly spaced polys) solution that is tons more useful than the previous arbitrary method. It gets you pretty damn close to what you want, with some tweaking left to do, and the user can direct the edgeflow. Saying that it is far from usable is a major stretch...and a pessimistic one at that. I'm glad to have something that gets me pretty close, even if it's not not perfect, nor finished.

It's like cursing the Taxi driver cause he didn't get out and walk you to the door...

[pluMmet]

I'm not sure a full autoretopology tool is the best way to go. Maybe being able to apply that to masked/selected parts of a model would be great!

I say let the AutoRetopo do what it can then delete areas that you want to rebuild and rebuild.

The closer the AutoRetopo gets the better but any help is Great!

[lino]

Well, for a feature that really is still in Beta stage, and when you compare it to what was available previously, it's pretty remarkable. There are tons of things I can use this on and be totally happy with the results. It was never intended to be a final solution for everything. It was a parameterized (evenly spaced polys) solution that is tons more useful than the previous arbitrary method. It gets you pretty damn close to what you want, with some tweaking left to do, and the user can direct the edgeflow. Saying that it is far from usable is a major stretch...and a pessimistic one at that. I'm glad to have something that gets me pretty close, even if it's not not perfect, nor finished.

It's like cursing the Taxi driver cause he didn't get out and walk you to the door...

Looks like you misunderstood me...I'm not saying 3D Coat auto-retopology is not working well....what I'm saying is that the image shows a very bad result. I think 3D Coat deserves more than that (such as the video I linked at the end of my post).

[AbnRanger]

Looks like you misunderstood me...I'm not saying 3D Coat auto-retopology is not working well....what I'm saying is that the image shows a very bad result. I think 3D Coat deserves more than that (such as the video I linked at the end of my post).

But the thing is, it's 2 different people using the same tool. Leigh Bamforth did the video, and he's likely been in closer contact with Andrew, to help test and give feedback, as most of his models have been used in the testing.

Just because one person's topology doesn't look quite right to you, doesn't mean the feature is "far from useful" as you claimed.

[lino]

But the thing is, it's 2 different people using the same tool. Leigh Bamforth did the video, and he's likely been in closer contact with Andrew, to help test and give feedback, as most of his models have been used in the testing.

Just because one person's topology doesn't look quite right to you, doesn't mean the feature is "far from useful" as you claimed.

That's not what I said.

"Looking at the image, I really think the produced topology is so far from being nearly usable (well, to be true, everything I see looks wrong to me). "

So...I was talking about the model, not about the feature. I'm wondering what's the point of showing such an image. 3D-Coat auto-retopology feature deserves more imho.

[juanmanuel]

There should be an informal "how to best auto-retopologize this model" contest. Come up with a really nasty and difficult model, and let everyone have a go and see which one comes with the best solution for using the tool. Andrew gets tons of feedback, users get lots of workflow examples, and the winner gets eternal bragging rights to being an autoretopology guru

[Lawless]

But the thing is, it's 2 different people using the same tool. Leigh Bamforth did the video, and he's likely been in closer contact with Andrew, to help test and give feedback, as most of his models have been used in the testing.

Just because one person's topology doesn't look quite right to you, doesn't mean the feature is "far from useful" as you claimed.

Hey AbnRanger,

Lino was pretty clear in his first post (then in later posts re-iterating) that the 3DCoat technology deserves a better image representation.

He never said the 3DCoat feature was far from useful, he said THAT SPECIFIC TOPOLOGY was far from useful.

He could not have been more clear.

EDIT and to philnolan3d, I think your image is a great example of this new technology. I am only trying to clear up the misunderstanding between Lino and AbnRanger.

I think this is getting blown out of proportion. This is a great technology.

Just my 2 cents.

-B

[philnolan3d]

That's not what I said.

"Looking at the image, I really think the produced topology is so far from being nearly usable (well, to be true, everything I see looks wrong to me). "

So...I was talking about the model, not about the feature. I'm wondering what's the point of showing such an image. 3D-Coat auto-retopology feature deserves more imho.

Well I'm sorry my image looks so horrible to you. I think it did a fantastic job, I would remove and do the head and hands by hand but I would like to do that anyway. I don't expect one click and boom the entire model is 100% perfect. It sounds like you're expecting that my image was some sort of official advertising image. It was only a very first test I did with the new feature that I had never used before.

[lino]

Well I'm sorry my image looks so horrible to you. I think it did a fantastic job, I would remove and do the head and hands by hand but I would like to do that anyway. I don't expect one click and boom the entire model is 100% perfect. It sounds like you're expecting that my image was some sort of official advertising image. It was only a very first test I did with the new feature that I had never used before.

Head and hands aren't the only two things that look wrong to me. A rigger could go crazy working on a model whose body has the polyflow I see here. What I mean is that 3D Coat tools should be "advertised" at their best. And I've seen the same image posted on the Newtek forums: "The latest update, 3.3.10, came out today with improvements to the auto-retopo feature. I did this little test with it in maybe 4 minutes."....

The point is that a good modeler (or any 3d pro) really can't see anything good about the topology in this model.

I think this is the wrong way to help a good product such as 3D-Coat to gain new users.

Just my humble opinion.

[philnolan3d]

Who's to say it isn't "as advertised"? Have you tried it? Maybe you would put your strokes in different places than I did. Maybe you wouldn't use any at all. I didn't post the image for you to critique my skills with a tool I've never used before.

[lino]

Who's to say it isn't "as advertised"? Have you tried it? Maybe you would put your strokes in different places than I did. Maybe you wouldn't use any at all. I didn't post the image for you to critique my skills with a tool I've never used before.

Yes, I've tried it and I like the way it works very much.

[philnolan3d]

So the whole point in this conversation was to bash my image?

[LJB]

So the whole point in this conversation was to bash my image?

I dont think so Phil, I think its more the fact that the test, that you chose to publish was infact not that great an example of what the new Auto topology tools can do, and how well they can work, yet you chose to post them anyway. Which is fine But i dont think you can argue that the topology is riggable and sound. I am sorry but it is true.

If you feel the conversation was to simply bash your image, then that about sums up how this forum is headed. I sometimes fail to see why you post images at all if you cant take even the most constructive crit. Or must we sugar coat every damn thing.

Lets not race to post images for the sake of it, just to be the first. Take some time and learn how best to work with the tool, then post your images, cos as hard as it might sound I have to agree with Lino that the edgeflow is not a very convincing demonstration, but as you say you never used it before.

[philnolan3d]

It wasn't posted for critique, it was a demo of what could be done with the new tool the first time ever using it in just a couple minutes. If it was a WIP image for critique I would've posted it in the WIP area. Jeez, I'm just trying to be helpful here.

[Javis]

Personal attacks will NOT be tolerated. I don't care whom does them. Yes BeatKintano, that is personal.

Consider this a warning, NO MORE PERSONAL ATTACKS. PERIOD.

I don't mind being the bad guy here. I simply will not tolerate personal attacks toward anyone. This ends here, and applies to EVERYONE.

The topic of what Lino said, that was just a constructive critique, which is fair game. You post your work for all to see, you're bound to be get all forms of criticism. Ones you like and don't like. That's just a fact of life. But for a few others who have turned that into a personal attack on others, is NOT ok.

[Javis]

While I applaud the way you try to handle this, my post and one of the ones after mine (both now deleted) had nothing to do with any personal attack, unless praising philnolan3d for the work he does @ CGTalk is considered an attack also

I understand what you mean. Unfortunately though anything that related to the personal attacks, positive or negative has absolutely nothing to do with this thread, auto retopology, or even the critiqing of Phil's work. Thus I removed all irrelevant posts. I'm trying to be as objective as possible.

Let's get this thread back on topic please. Thanks!

EDIT: I am locking this thread for a few hours so all of you can cool your jets. Once it's unlocked, PLEASE no more off topic posts and especially NO personal attacks.

That is all.

EDIT 2: Thread is open again. Please play nicely.

[Mykyl]

Any more words on the progress for us mac users? I hope its not too big a problem to get over.

Cheers

Mike R

[michalis]

there are some good reasons to wait Mykyl, another mac user here. Patience!

[ifxs]

Leigh's vimeo video was VERY helpful. It feels like a few practice sessions in this new auto-retopo will yeild specific techniques as to how to best use this awesome new tool from Andrew. Thank you Andrew!!!

P.S.:

I know too that the Mac(and *nix) version is lagging, but please andrew, we're aching to try out the auto-retopo.(hem hem, and 64bit for OSX would be great too someday ;-) Cant wait to do reconstruct-subdivision in ZB on a auto-retopo mesh from 3DC, the ultimate low poly real-time mesh. P.S. has anyone seen the voxels in ZB4(called "shadow box"), interesting stuff.

[michalis]

@ifxs

You don't really need this autoretopo tool. Do a fast re-topo at ~100 quads (5 min). Have in mind loops thats all. Disable snapping! Disable symmetry!! Then subdivide and enable snapping again. Do this as many time you want. My suggestion is to use the slower snapping method. Export to zb and reconstruct subdivisions. Everything works fine this way. You may wish to bake a shader before exporting too, one you may constructed using some noisy texture. You may wish to use it in zb as a displacement. Have fun. BTW seams are invisible this way.

The combination of 3DC and ZB is superior to any ZB release I know.

[parel]

err- was something deleted that I am missing- it looked like a critique of the work rather than a personal attack. I dont think anyone was critiquing Phil as an individual. Seemed like a constructive critique with a genuine problem- a demo not showing the tool off properly- and a good solution- spend a little more time to show the technology in a better light. There was obviously a difference as to the definition of usable geometry- still nothing personal....lets not get too heavy on the threadlocks and banhammers...

[AbnRanger]

...I know too that the Mac(and *nix) version is lagging, but please andrew, we're aching to try out the auto-retopo.(hem hem, and 64bit for OSX would be great too someday ;-) ...

Yeah, I have a friend who just bought a MAC seat today, and the poor guy has 16GB's of RAM and can only use 3GB's of it until a 64bit MAC version comes forward.

Andrew would it be possible to issue those who bought MAC versions, a dual platform license temporarily (their choice of Linux or Windows) until a 64bit MAC version is available? It doesn't make sense to me that they should be forced to pay an additional fee to run 3DC on Bootcamp, simply because the MAC version is handicapped still (at 32bit).

That's not what I said.

"Looking at the image, I really think the produced topology is so far from being nearly usable (well, to be true, everything I see looks wrong to me). "

So...I was talking about the model, not about the feature. I'm wondering what's the point of showing such an image. 3D-Coat auto-retopology feature deserves more imho.

My apologies for mistaking your words. It sounded like a wholesale rebuke of the effort Andrew has made here.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Mac version uploaded. It was not so easy to compile it this time because of Intel MKL library usage.

We are working on linux build too. I hope it will be done very soon.

[GCastro]

Mac version uploaded. It was not so easy to compile it this time because of Intel MKL library usage.

We are working on linux build too. I hope it will be done very soon.

Awesome! going to try it right now. Thanks Andrew.

-George