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3D-Coat 3.3 updates thread


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To clearly show the problem of black meshes upon autoretopology import i mentioned here recently i'm now including a screenshot of it. I hope i'm not the only one having this issue. :(

....

Besides this annoying issue there are a number of typos in the Autoretopolgy Wizard that should be corrected.

/ Magnus

Maybe your current paint color is black? And you are using "Default" shader in Voxel room...

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To clearly show the problem of black meshes upon autoretopology import i mentioned here recently i'm now including a screenshot of it. I hope i'm not the only one having this issue. :(

It may be that your light brightness is set to 0 in the voxel room. 3D Coat remembers the setting from one session to the next.

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That happened to me once, I was a bit panicked until I figured that out.

So far the Anthropology is good for me and REALLY good if you lay enough lines down. Perfect- no nothing is perfect only infinity close and I'm sure Andrew is trying to get there.

The only thing so far that kind of is kind of odd is the wizard. I think...maybe it should be a check box option. So when you run it, you get a screen that says "Welcome to the wonderful wizard...press USE WIZARD button to use the Wizard, Expert Mode button to manually go through each step" Then in the lower right or left, there should be a check box that says something like "Click here to not show this window again and always be in expert mode. Can be brought back in preferences".

Wizards just aren't my thing- though I appreciate being walked through something the FIRST time or so. After that I just want most of that to go away!

Thank you though Andrew- already this is amazing and only getting better. I threw some crazy stuff at it in my tests, and with a little aid on the part of the user there were very few "oddities".

*****************************************

On an aside- would there be anyway to put in a third "assit" mode other than the drawing green V and Red U lines? I found that on things like crazy branches that are hard to get a direct angle on without intersecting other branches, that these tools were hard to work with.

I thought of two solutions (though I'm not a programmer so take it with a grain of salt).

The first idea was to, allow us to put down points in order of the base of the appendage out to the tip. Like I was saying, with things like hair or branches, this would be easier for the user to do. So you'd put point one at the base and then maybe the last point at the end/tip. Kind of like working with curves in 3DC. Just like curves, the more you use, the more higher the chance of accuracy. Left click would lay them down, and a right click would terminate it and allow you to move on to the next branch/appendage etc.

The second idea was more of a kind of ray casting solution that would check as you drew where the last point was, and with a distance tolerance setting (could be brush size) would see if an intersected point was suddenly much further away than the last one, and then cast a ray(s) into the scene, from the brush point, until it hit the next geo that was hit and closest to the last point drawn on the line. It would probably have to cull backside polygons etc. Let me know if this doesn't make sense and I'll draw a diagram- though I think it will make sense to Andrew!

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All very awesome ideas. :)

Hey my ideas are far from perfect...but I like to try and help out if I can!

I think throwing out ideas is more constructive than saying A- make it awesome B- make it better than awesome C- I want it RIGHT NOW and I don't care about how you do it. I personally appreciate it when people not only have a request for something, but try and think as an end user how it might work.

So many things that end up being amazing because of the talents of a programmer and software designer seem to be started by thoughtful user requests. I think it saves them time too as it might cut down on "mind reading".

What do I know though about software development? I haven't written anything beyond a clock and calendar in Pascal and a few REALLY simple ICE trees! All the more reason for me to appreciate Andrew's endeavors and all those other crazy "Siggraph" level computer scientists skills and dedication.

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I agree 100% with you mocaw. And it's nice from Andrew that he is willing to share info how he is doing things.

It helps us to throw interesting ideas and sometimes those small ideas grow bigger and better features. My great hoppy

lately has been while sculpting I press W so I'm able to see how the wireframe is working with every tool. I would say that

99% of time it's waste of time but 1% you find something interesting to share.

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Here's the new auto retopo. A simple chair. OK not so simple but simple enough to show how new retopo works. Holes!

Sorry, auto re topo is not for me. At least this one.

I insist, fireworks, this is my opinion. Lets help Andrew to fix the bugs in retopo room and forget the whole thing. Some tools don't work as they should be. The smooth tool works from camera vector, not using normals. This is a major problem. A palette and an indicator that will show non quads is missing too. The quad tool sometime is not working etc.

Now if you think that you have better auto topology than manually, well, I have nothing to say.

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LOL I know taurus, using lower density it was worst. But it is bad, see how it looks in sketch up machine. The tri decimator from voxels palette exports better mesh than this.

This was a mesh made in SU from a friend, exported as obj and imported as voxels ~5M. A better low quads topology was what I had in mind. A manual retopo is the key here, its not difficult, a five min work. Easy to construct UVs then.

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Now if you think that you have better auto topology than manually, well, I have nothing to say.

While this tool may not suit yourself and the kind of work your doing, it does however offer a serious boost to productivity for others. I'll assume you have not watched the video created by Leigh, which gave a great demonstration of auto quadrangulation on a character. I can see it saving time for me, even if I do have to do a bit of clean up here and there, so I'm more than happy to have this as an option for my sculpts.

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While this tool may not suit yourself and the kind of work your doing, it does however offer a serious boost to productivity for others. I'll assume you have not watched the video created by Leigh, which gave a great demonstration of auto quadrangulation on a character. I can see it saving time for me, even if I do have to do a bit of clean up here and there, so I'm more than happy to have this as an option for my sculpts.

Also, Andrew had to suspend work on it, to attend to bugfixes and such. He'll likely be back in the saddle, improving it more next week.
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did you paint any guides michalis? Did you try to play around more with number values? The feature is new and also a work in progress so none of us are experts on how to get the most out of it yet. I've had a wonderful time with it so far. I think this is one case where 3d-Coat is definately down the right path. Other retopo tools have had years to mature, Andrew just implemented this what was it a week or two ago? You can't retopo one chair, get a slightly weird result and then make any kind of reasonable judgement on the feature.

So those who think it is better or worse than pure manual retopo are just making guesses and loose predictions. People are entitled to guess, but they shouldn't treat these guesses with the same gravity as fact.

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Thanks kay_Eva

Guides in mac version don't work at all.

I tested it in all my models, I don't like this topology at all.

In portraits was the worst. I can have excellent retopo in five min working manually though.

The reason that this didn't work here is the holes. I found the weak point? or what? But I need five min to retopo this perfectly using less quads.

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My question is simple.

1. The mac version is still 32 bit, don't expect much on a macpro 2xeon 12gb ram machine lol

2. UV islands more than 5k is impossible to edit them, even to move them

3. Retopo room is a mess, snapping is problematic, subdivisions, symmetry too.

4. A 5M voxel is the limit.

5. distortion of texture in paint room doesn't work from all angles

6. Normal maps look inverted near seams in most cases (even inside 3DC)

7. Non of auto uv topo ever worked without errors.

So my question to all of you here:

Should Andrew stop the mac version?

Can anyone of you work with an app like this?

I can. Some fast 1M voxel sketch, some simple fast retopo, export to zbrush, finished. 200euros are too much for this, don't they?

Or export the cage from retopo and the tri from voxel room and turn them to a multi res model in blender. UV editor is superior there.

But an artist can work with what he has. I maybe a bad artist but I'm an artist after all

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Thanks kay_Eva

Guides in mac version don't work at all.

I tested it in all my models, I don't like this topology at all.

In portraits was the worst. I can have excellent retopo in five min working manually though.

The reason that this didn't work here is the holes. I found the weak point? or what? But I need five min to retopo this perfectly using less quads.

The chair is a simple model, so sure, retopo it manually. It's the more complex models that the new quadrngulate function will really help.

Michalis, you're being a little unreasonable. The old quadrangulate function was awful and yet you never ranted on about how poor it was. The new quadrangulate is much better and yet suddenly you've turned into a crazed demanding perfectionist that just isn't going to be happy unless the new quadrangulate function can produce an absolutely perfect mesh.

I think what's really happening is that your frustration with other issues in 3D Coat is making a little crazy and driving you to attack any new features that don't directly address the problems you're having.

Having said all that - I suspect there's a history of Michalis being a pain in the ass on the internet forums. :)

Black sheep indeed :p:

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My question is simple.

1. The mac version is still 32 bit, don't expect much on a macpro 2xeon 12gb ram machine lol

2. UV islands more than 5k is impossible to edit them, even to move them

3. Retopo room is a mess, snapping is problematic, subdivisions, symmetry too.

4. A 5M voxel is the limit.

5. distortion of texture in paint room doesn't work from all angles

6. Normal maps look inverted near seams in most cases (even inside 3DC)

7. Non of auto uv topo ever worked without errors.

So my question to all of you here:

Should Andrew stop the mac version?

Can anyone of you work with an app like this?

I can. Some fast 1M voxel sketch, some simple fast retopo, export to zbrush, finished. 200euros are too much for this, don't they?

Or export the cage from retopo and the tri from voxel room and turn them to a multi res model in blender. UV editor is superior there.

But an artist can work with what he has. I maybe a bad artist but I'm an artist after all

You're really stretching things here. I can get roughly 20mill on my 4GB laptop, and the UV's are NOT that slow, and you know it. You were fussing about subdivision snapping in the Retopo Room...and have since realized there is a way to subdivide with little to no snapping problems....yet you say the Retopo Room is a mess. Then you finally discover that you can get normal maps without seams, yet you complain here that you can't.

Andrew has stated that a 64bit MAC is in the works and that IT IS NOT AN EASY TASK TO PULL OFF....yet you continue to come here and fuss anyway. Please, show some video captures of what you are experiencing, and get them to Andrew at : support@3d-coat.com

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Posted Yesterday, 11:04 PM

This "for others" is killing me. Who are the "others" stevecullum? I'm an individual, I like it. And a mac user BTW. And still have a half 3dc here.

Well, I am one of those others. And judging by the comments made by the folks who have also joined this thread, they are too.

I understand your frustration of having a partial working Mac version, but I am struggling to understand your wholesale disregard for this feature. Or is it because you would have preferred Andrew to focus in on sorting the Mac version out, before doing this?

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Looked at the recent update and I like the new wizard options!

I put together some snaps of what I got from the auto retop tool this time I drew some guides I can see this will be a huge helper later on :D.

post-2576-12816607469014_thumb.jpgpost-2576-12816607597944_thumb.jpgpost-2576-12816607708535_thumb.jpg

amazing ... did you tweak the mesh or it's pure by guides, how did u bake normal off voxels ?

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amazing ... did you tweak the mesh or it's pure by guides, how did u bake normal off voxels ?

This was all the work of the guides and the auto retop magic I did not tweak anything. What I did for the normal map was mark my UV seam down the center of the mesh and then merged for per pixel paint with normal maps on a 2k map.

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An answer

@splodge

Having said all that - I suspect there's a history of Michalis being a pain in the ass on the internet forums.

Please explain what suspect means. Explain it and make it clear sir! You suspect nothing. Please delete this as soon as possible. A moderator should read this carefully.

I'm complaining, you like it or not. But I didn't call anyone "sarcastic" "lier" or this fascistic "suspect" here. And still trying to listen what others say, commenting their art work, trying to show what sculpture means to me.

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=193861

http://www.sketchupartists.org/tutorials/blender-to-sketchup-a-workaround-for-texturing-organic-shapes/

http://blenderartists.org/forum/showthread.php?t=193861

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/zb_user_thumbs.php?u=162310

http://www.suplugins.com/gallery/index.html

@AbnRanger

You helped me in a way that you still can't understand, you and artman were the only true help here. There isn't any tutorial about these, you should write one, its the missing tutorial.

@stevecullum

I understand your frustration of having a partial working Mac version, but I am struggling to understand your wholesale disregard for this feature. Or is it because you would have preferred Andrew to focus in on sorting the Mac version out, before doing this?

A lot of people here believe that "bugs first, new tools after", have you noticed this?

Andrew pmed to me and said that he'll fix the mac problem, he should have done this a week ago. But its not the first time and I doubt if he knows what really the problem is. I posted him the file of course. He should have a mac and work some time to fully understand what I'm saying.

To all the three of you:

You think I'm spoiling 3DC, the same time you're spoiling a persons reputation.

Please, all of you, I'm just complaining and you're trying to start a war. My complains stay in this forum, you can search and see, only good words to other forums.

As Thukydides "peloponnesian wars" writes: "A war can take for long time, don't start it if you don't know how to deal with it. The enemy may fight in a different way than you expect".

So lets begin, mac and linux builds first, fireworks next.

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Uh oh...

A lot of people here believe that "bugs first, new tools after", have you noticed this?

Please look my twitter. I am fixing bugs and responding urgent requests...

The story repeats again and again. Usually I am fixing bugs for 2-3 weeks until it becomes really silent and clean at least on forum regarding bugs. Then I am beginning to make something new. First week if happy time. Second week is harder, I am getting some requests and need to solve them while engine is partially resembled while making new feature. Third week is really hard... Some urgent problem forces me to drop all and fix it. Then all repeats again.

Please understand us programmers.............. :huh:

Andrew pmed to me and said that he'll fix the mac problem, he should have done this a week ago. But its not the first time and I doubt if he knows what really the problem is. I posted him the file of course. He should have a mac and work some time to fully understand what I'm saying.

Please look our last pm conversation. It ended with my request to get sample so that I can clearly reproduce the problem. I tried to reproduce, but no luck. Snapping/baking was problematic only when topology on that place was messy or not too good too far from surface). So I can't fix problem if I have no logical way to repro it.

The similar story was with AbnRanger weeks ago. He had problem with deadline because of bugs. He was slightly angry and it is well understood. Then I put all my efforts to fix all and the main thing is that I was getting really good response from him how to reproduce different problems. All was fixed within couple of days and he become happy.

So, please, help us help you. Believe me, I am open to co-work.

What about Mac vs PC there are not too much differences and if I see them I am fixing them. Steve Jobs made easy life for users but hellish for programmers. 64 bits are just out of any comments.... I really don't like dev tools for Mac.

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It's funny that mac dev tools are so bad, because their programs use to be very solid and stable. I have heard this statement from

many developpers from diffrent forums. Hope they improve it in the future.

Please understand us programmers..............

Lately I have been trying to be a programmer too when I have been scripting the blender Applink script. And I can

see clearly how hard it can be. I don't even remember some of the code I wrote last week and many times it makes

me to have "what the heck I was trying to do here" moments.. when watching my code. Andrew, if you want to get a

good laugh, just read couple lines from there :)

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I'm by no means an anti mac guy, but it's true that Apple does no favors to programmers in terms of making things easier. Be patient as Andrew works on things, he is not ignoring you or any Apple users.

That said, if I were a programmer and 90% of my main user base including studios were using something other than Apple systems, which one do you think I'd attend to first if I had to choose? I'm not trying to start some flame war here, just saying if you step back and look at the dollars and sense part of it + over all user base satisfaction...

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Thanks for response Andrew, I mailed you a mesh indeed. I could mail you all my previous meshes and ask you to re-topo them. On a mac. I can't find any use of posting the ready topology as I spent so many time to fix all these retopo and snapping problems. You have to do this, so to understand and start wondering "how he did this?" On a mac. Please explain why I can't edit islands in UVs. Why I have to do this in blender. Because blender is a better app maybe and blender 64bit mac builders don't seem to have any problems with Steven Jobs, they have a new build every day now. A cocoa build!

You didn't managed to give a clear answer once again. 32 or 64 bit, this mac version has lot of problems, it can work as a partner of zbrush only. To move 5k island, I don't need 64 bit for this.

The way you don't like dev tools, the same way I don't like voodoo ways in 3DC! LOL

@Haikalle

Without asking your permission, I mentioned you and your work (http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5853) in blenderartists.org, I hope its OK.

You are helping too here, in many ways, thank you.

@mocaw

I'll keep saying that I paid money for a mac app here. Is this so difficult for you to understand this? Do you find this funny?

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i just brought 3d coat today. mac version. It was a bit of a close call between Zbrush and 3d coat, and i choose coat because it seemed that, unlike zbrush, the mac version was developed in parallel with the pc version. also specifically for the re-topo tools. so reading this thread is disappointing . . .

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