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3D-Coat 3.3 updates thread


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"Waves" issue is not fixed but result is 50-60% better.(less waves)

Better result is especially noticable when move brush was used...but when using Pose tool result is still full of waves.

You are close to good result I think. :)

EDIT: When using 8X instead of 4X result is nearly 100% "waveless" when using move brush :) ...

(on the 2mil body i previously posted)

At 8x Using Pose tool still creates waves(but much less than 4x)

but big artifacts appears

(like the Polygon are stretching from the original pose to the new pose (especially fingers).)(Probably because 8X is too much degradation for a 2 mil body)

....so in all it means,you need to bring 4X as much "waveless" as 8x.

I think...

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Waves issue is not completely fixed. Confirmed on win32 bit non-cuda, 3.3.03.(the new upload). It is a lot better as artman posted.

Confirming on artifacts when going back to voxel mode as Taros reported also. It happens randomly...

Linux version has not been updated for multi-resolution yet as I think Andrew is waiting till the problem is resolved.

Edit: It is great to hear about local subdivision in surface mode coming to 3DCoat also...

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Ok,I did more test with Pose tool and it seems artifacts I got around fingers area came from the selection of the "line mode" and not from the multires.....

I made strong solid selections around finger with lasso in "pen mode" before posing and no artifacts appears after uncaching.

So that makes one less problem . :)

In all,here is the final results on a 2 mil body.

4X MOVE brush 50-60% less waves.

4X Pose tool ....a lot of waves .

8X Move tool...near perfect 100%.

8X Pose tool...80% less waves.

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Thank you for that one phil, well done. ;)

Glad you enjoyed. It was a big pain really since I have no mic. I record the video, then make up a script, then my printer was out of ink so I had to bring the script on my laptop to a quiet room, then record audio on my iPhone, then finally placing the audio clips into the video. I'm not even counting the horror that is uploading to YouTube.

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I wouldn't really call it multires when you can only use 2 at a time, unless you are going to add more levels later. If current implementation is the final intent, I'm a bit disappointed. I also think the time delay is quite extreme, strongly objecting the unconcerned notion "only takes a few seconds" in Phil's video. You have to beat the competition to use the word only :). It's better than before obviously, but I'm hoping for more.

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I wouldn't really call it multires when you can only use 2 at a time, unless you are going to add more levels later. If current implementation is the final intent, I'm a bit disappointed. I also think the time delay is quite extreme, strongly objecting the unconcerned notion "only takes a few seconds" in Phil's video. You have to beat the competition to use the word only :). It's better than before obviously, but I'm hoping for more.

You have at least 3 levels right now 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8. I may add any amount more if need (even 1/X where X>1 - any FLOAT number, even not integer) Why not multiresolution?

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You have at least 3 levels right now 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8. I may add any amount more if need (even 1/X where X>1 - any FLOAT number, even not integer) Why not multiresolution?

You still can't seamlessly jump between levels. You must pick one, use it, discard it and go back to high res before you can pick different one. I think that is unnecessary micromanaging and processing overhead.

There are 2 ways I can think of to dramatically improve this:

1.You can simply automate applying the proxy and reducing the res to a level below previous one. All with one click.

2.Make proxy of the proxy when moving down. When moving up, apply proxy to the next one in hierarchy similar way that it is now done for the full res.

Number 1 would solve the micromanaging, but not the processing. 2 would improve processing on lower levels, but probably will introduce errors.

What big time delay? I was really impressed with how it only took a few seconds when other sculpting apps I've used took much longer at high resolutions.

Anything below 4mil in ZB (on my not-state-of-the-art-rig) runs smooth as butter and takes split second to swap resolutions, with the occasional exceptions of doing something extreme on low res and jumping straight to top. Anything above 4 mil I just break it to pieces or use HD geom without speed hit. It takes 3DC around 5 seconds to bring down 2 mil object, and that is very significant hump workflow wise. I'm not even that concerned about high detail levels, but for quickly ramming in shapes, highly responsive multires is essential to me.

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The best way to test multires is to do some big changes on the proxy for a 4 million poly model. Use the Move brush. And don't forget to include switching back to voxel mode when adding up the time taken.

The whole point of multires and switching to a lower subdivision is so that the user can quickly make large changes to their model.

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The Retopo tools are busted for me (Win 7 3.3.03 CUDA64). They take forever...strokes takes a bout a minute+ in between strokes, points and faces just flat out don't work. The Quads tool takes a about a 1min+ per poly.

I tried absolutely everything (clearing layer and starting fresh, clearing every other retopo layer as well, exporting what I had and re-importing, etc) wasting hours trouble-shooting...and all I'm trying to do right now is just get everything out of 3DC until some of these bugs get squashed.

I'm now officially back in unhappy camper mode :angry: ...had a deadline to meet and this is KILLING me.

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The Retopo tools are busted for me (Win 7 3.3.03 CUDA64). They take forever...strokes takes a bout a minute+ in between strokes, points and faces just flat out don't work. The Quads tool takes a about a 1min+ per poly.

I tried absolutely everything (clearing layer and starting fresh, clearing every other retopo layer as well, exporting what I had and re-importing, etc) wasting hours trouble-shooting...and all I'm trying to do right now is just get everything out of 3DC until some of these bugs get squashed.

Ah yeah! I had this happen to me today when doing Strokes in retopo, my computer froze. Maybe strokes have always been slow on high res models. I dunno, I've not done much retopo before.

You could try doing a retopo on a proxy model and then switching to high res voxels when all your retopo is finally laid out.

Edit:

Update - Just tried retopo strokes on a high res model in a pre proxy version of 3D Coat and my computer froze.

hmmm...

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I selected the "split rings" tool and put my cursor on the mesh, 3DCoat became non responsive for some time, and I could see on the (Windows) bottom tool bar that 3DCoat was opening up more windows like it was doing its cache thing in the voxel room.

Do you get that cache effect when doing work in retopo and the program becomes non - responsive? You see 3DCoat open up more windows along the windows task bar. Perhaps this is a similar issue.

This happened when using Win 32, 3.3.02 32 CUDA.

The other retopo tools worked fine though.

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You have at least 3 levels right now 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8. I may add any amount more if need (even 1/X where X>1 - any FLOAT number, even not integer) Why not multiresolution?

How do you choose which level you want, I'm missing that somewhere. Thanks in advance...

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Ah yeah! I had this happen to me today when doing Strokes in retopo, my computer froze. Maybe strokes have always been slow on high res models. I dunno, I've not done much retopo before.

You could try doing a retopo on a proxy model and then switching to high res voxels when all your retopo is finally laid out.

Edit:

Update - Just tried retopo strokes on a high res model in a pre proxy version of 3D Coat and my computer froze.

hmmm...

It seems like every time something gets fixed in the Retopo Room, it gets broken again a few builds later. Looks like I'm going to have to learn my lesson once and for all, and just stick to 3DC as nothing but a Texture painting/UV layout asset...everything else is like playing a game of Russian Roulette. These bugs have have wrestled with me for days, trying to finish up the assets I have and get them out of 3DC.

I guess I'll have to just do a straight export out of Voxels, and retopologize with WrapIt in Max.

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The Retopo tools are busted for me (Win 7 3.3.03 CUDA64). They take forever...strokes takes a bout a minute+ in between strokes, points and faces just flat out don't work. The Quads tool takes a about a 1min+ per poly.

I tried absolutely everything (clearing layer and starting fresh, clearing every other retopo layer as well, exporting what I had and re-importing, etc) wasting hours trouble-shooting...and all I'm trying to do right now is just get everything out of 3DC until some of these bugs get squashed.

I'm now officially back in unhappy camper mode :angry: ...had a deadline to meet and this is KILLING me.

I tried retopo tool on several meshes (and on your mesh that you sent me earlier too, there is at least 14M triangles) and it always worked as expected and fast.

And proxy mode always speeds up retopo, especially stroke mode.

So, if you want to know actual reason send me the object.

Idea: What snapping method have you chosen? "Snap no nearest" is really slow on big meshes and should be used in special cases. So choose snap to outer surface. It may be the reason of slowdown.

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It seems like every time something gets fixed in the Retopo Room, it gets broken again a few builds later. Looks like I'm going to have to learn my lesson once and for all, and just stick to 3DC as nothing but a Texture painting/UV layout asset...everything else is like playing a game of Russian Roulette. These bugs have have wrestled with me for days, trying to finish up the assets I have and get them out of 3DC.

I guess I'll have to just do a straight export out of Voxels, and retopologize with WrapIt in Max.

I am using the current version too, and have no problems with retopo. I am working with high poly models, too.

What kind of models are you retopologizing? Imported mesh data or voxel data in 3D Coat?

Yesterday I worked an a modelgroup, that has over 11 Million Polygons in voxel area. Retopology runs like butter here.

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Remember that you can have two working copies of 3DCoat in different folders on one computer but not running at the same time otherwise your license becomes disabled. I will keep the last most stable version and then the newest version for testing the beta builds. I call them betas because most of the time they need some bug squashing before they are stable unless it is a point release.

That way I keep my sanity... :blink:

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I tested this version on a 15 million tri sphere just now. With strokes the only problem I had was that the yellow circle cursor was a little laggy like it had trouble keeping up with the cross hair in the middle. That and when I drew strokes out they took up to 7 seconds to actually form the stroke after I lifted up my stylus.

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I am using the current version too, and have no problems with retopo. I am working with high poly models, too.

What kind of models are you retopologizing? Imported mesh data or voxel data in 3D Coat?

Yesterday I worked an a modelgroup, that has over 11 Million Polygons in voxel area. Retopology runs like butter here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6gjIzZOreI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R802JE2c7ZY

The strokes somehow work better in this video, and with "snap to outer surface"....but the quads and points to faces tool is still slow and from time to time, the points to face tool just refuses to work. Earlier today, it was absolutely unusable...period, on the upscaled model, that was only 4mill polys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gMPapF6pVA

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Remember that you can have two working copies of 3DCoat in different folders on one computer but not running at the same time otherwise your license becomes disabled. I will keep the last most stable version and then the newest version for testing the beta builds. I call them betas because most of the time they need some bug squashing before they are stable unless it is a point release.

That way I keep my sanity... :blink:

I actually went back and installed all the way back to the first 3.2...and strokes worked better, but the quads and points and faces tool still took way to long to drop the polygons before letting you move on to the next. I spent more time troubleshooting bugs than I have getting work done.

Another lesson learned the hard way.

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You know - there is support@3d-coat.com for urgent need. If there is some deadline or something urgent, I am dropping all and solving it. Uploading solution in 30 min and so on.

And I helped in this way hundreds of times saving different deadlines. This is constructive way to solve urgent need.

And it could be good to get mesh that produces lags in points&faces tool because it does not happen on any of my samples.

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I get the same slowdown in retopo except my model is really low poly.

I think I may have figured it out(well at least a solution). I pressed the clear mesh button in the retopo menu, now it starts working really quickly.

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I get the same slowdown in retopo except my model is really low poly.

I think I may have figured it out(well at least a solution). I pressed the clear mesh button in the retopo menu, now it starts working really quickly.

I did that several times, and still had the slow and unstable response in the Points & Faces tool, as well as the slow reaction times with the Quads tool. Instead of all of these workarounds, and "you have to do this when you get this" and "you have to reduce or increase this to keep this from happening," and such...the tools need to operate in a consistent, reliable manner. Every time I hit a snag, and have to go into troubleshoot mode, I always think about the poor soul who is brand new to 3DC and doesn't yet know all the "workarounds" they need to know.
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The software isnt that bad though, compared to something like, 3ds max or Zbrush the amount of workarounds or things that are unworkable in them, and ask for them to be fixed, and your lucky if you get an answer at all.

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The software isnt that bad though, compared to something like, 3ds max or Zbrush the amount of workarounds or things that are unworkable in them, and ask for them to be fixed, and your lucky if you get an answer at all.

What's unworkable in 3ds Max...or ZBrush?
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