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new zBrush 4 Videos - really strong features

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Now, Don - again, you are making assumptions. Flagstaff, Arizona, is a mountain town with pines and aspens and it never gets over about 90 degrees - so, yes, a horse and buggy would be quite nice. In fact, it would allow you to take in all the beauty that surrounds you here. And, cars would take special care not to run you down and would find the rig "quaint".

A Lexus would be quite out of place and overpowered for our slow moving streets. Too many pedestrians.

Stop, and smell the roses, Don.

Greg

No time for rose sniffing when you're in a rush to get to work, right?...unless that is your vocation. :p:

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This is why I asked if you had one...cause you're making assumptions without firsthand knowledge.

but why? i tried it for enough amount of time and found that this device not for everyone, and not giving such vital benefit for its price, like for example graphic tablet do.

If you don't use it, why not reserve judgment?

to warn trustful people against purchasing things which it can appear unnecessary... and actualy why if u using it you think everybody must and be happy of it?

By the way, you can buy a SpacePilot on EBay anywhere between $50-$100...not $800.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...DefaultDomain_0

No, I don't like to buy used things, and have not took into consideration this opportunity even if it would cost lower, its comfortably enough to work with pen in one hand and keyboard under another, instead of saerching headaches.

If to speak about E-Bay, even if it is possible to find new goods there, often dealers not shipping them to my country only US or Canada accepted, rarely Europe. For the European E-Bay prices on goods are not far from mine which are in my local store, 50$ would not change to much, and would not iincline me to prefer spend less $ and make order on e-bay, mess with shippment, guarantee if sh!t happen accidently and so on.

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I do have a ZBrush4 license and was at first exited over all the new things.

BUT! Now I'm back to 3DCoat after a week of the simple reason that 3DCoat

is simpler and serves creating of game assets much better. Making a retopology

in ZBrush is not cool at all. So my five cents goes to 3DCoat at least when

making 3D game assets.

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but why? i tried it for enough amount of time and found that this device not for everyone, and not giving such vital benefit for its price, like for example graphic tablet do.

to warn trustful people against purchasing things which it can appear unnecessary... and actualy why if u using it you think everybody must and be happy of it?

No, I don't like to buy used things, and have not took into consideration this opportunity even if it would cost lower, its comfortably enough to work with pen in one hand and keyboard under another, instead of saerching headaches.

If to speak about E-Bay, even if it is possible to find new goods there, often dealers not shipping them to my country only US or Canada accepted, rarely Europe. For the European E-Bay prices on goods are not far from mine which are in my local store, 50$ would not change to much, and would not iincline me to prefer spend less $ and make order on e-bay, mess with shippment, guarantee if sh!t happen accidently and so on.

Well...it's fine to give an opinion, but to say outright that it's useless is wrong. If you tried it, you obviously never gave yourself the same adjustment period that you would allow for a Wacom tablet. And for $50-$100, it pays for itself in no time....used or new. I bought mine on EBay, used and have noticed no difference at all between it and a new one...plus I had the option to get a warranty for it for an extra $10 bucks or so. It just seems to me that you're making excuses, rather than trying to give the thing a real chance. That's fine if you're referring to your own experience....but to dogmatically proclaim here that it's worthless is an erroneous, ill-informed statement.

Many here would certainly disagree with it. It's such an immense help for me that it has, and remains to be the No.1 reason I use 3D Coat.

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Well...it's fine to give an opinion, but to say outright that it's useless is wrong. If you tried it, you obviously never gave yourself the same adjustment period that you would allow for a Wacom tablet.

well, actualy i started my first post in this topic with the worlds "in my opinion" which of course not representing the whole picture about things are going on for all artists.

I bought mine on EBay, used and have noticed no difference at all between it and a new one...plus I had the option to get a warranty for it for an extra $10 bucks or so. It just seems to me that you're making excuses, rather than trying to give the thing a real chance.

its the matter of luck you have encountered the same behavior with used and new device.

It's such an immense help for me that it has, and remains to be the No.1 reason I use 3D Coat.

for coat maybe, i discovered that with some tools camera rotation modes like custom pivot, or pick point is ignored and navigation happens around world`s center wich no good especialy while trying to pull with spline tool small body parts like fingers, tails and other thumbs for such kind of work you need to fly around local place of intrest... but i think it could be fixed and the range of tasks where navigator is helpful will be narrowed more:D

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Yeah, shadowbox is a much nicer implementation. I found the 3dc method too cumbersome to work with and pretty much ignored it from it's implementation. Then again, it's easy enough to just boolean forms together with voxels anyway, or carve away at them with selection tools.

I find it faster to use the Cut/Clone and Split tool in Voxels than trying to make a precise mask in shadow box. The geometry generated by shadow box is generally shoddy if not downright buggy in some cases. I really hate what ZB4 has done to the quick masking shortcuts and geometry hide. They've literally 'made room' for timeline and shadow box by making the workflow for key sculpting features (mask and geo hide) really cumbersome. I'm shocked there hasn't been a backlash from the guys who use zbrush mainly for normal map generation.

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I really hate what ZB4 has done to the quick masking shortcuts and geometry hide.

yes switching from masking to hiding became a bit confusing, but the good thing is that now these tools working with symmetry, and it`s became much easier to assign polygroups inside Zbrush itself rather then import/export model somwhere else for this task. also the selections may be moved while creating them holding a spacebar like in photoshop. :rolleyes: and you have the ability to drag often used Mask and Selection types over the pannel to quickly switch between them, i done this already :D but popup notification window still annoying(

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yes switching from masking to hiding became a bit confusing, but the good thing is that now these tools working with symmetry, and it`s became much easier to assign polygroups inside Zbrush itself rather then import/export model somwhere else for this task. also the selections may be moved while creating them holding a spacebar like in photoshop. :rolleyes: and you have the ability to drag often used Mask and Selection types over the pannel to quickly switch between them, i done this already :D but popup notification window still annoying(

What's actually kind of funny and kind of embarassing is that after I read this, I went back into zb4 and started fooling around with masks and hiding selection... well turns out I must have screwed something up by copying my config from zb3.5. I had just dl'd someone's setup for zb4 and overwrote some things in the startup folder and ta-da: masking and hide selection work fine. The only reason I thought this was a common issue was that people were posting about dealing with the same problems I was having. I'm guessing they made the same mistake I did... thanks for keeping the dream alive ;)

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I found today 2 great new videos from pixolator showing an motorcycle model and the actual modeling in Zbrush 4. I was impressed of the 3.5 video from 3d coat on that spaceship sculpting but what i sew today is (maybe)equal on what 3d coat can do on hard surfaces.Im more an zbrusher but i had 3d coat for 30 day trial to test.Its realy an great program but if ZB stil gets better and better and 3d coat is such hardware intensive to run i stick with ZB.

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=095181

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=95181&page=6&pp=15

After that videos u think Why max or maya anymore )))Its so mutch easier and quicker to get an high poly in Zb and 3d coat today that i think Maya wil be more for low poly medeling in future.Just my thought at the moment.

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Watching videos is not the best way to see what app suits your needs. :rolleyes:

Just compare 3DC and ZB galleries. Someone mentioned this... Its pointless.

Most of these renders included 3DC+ZB+ some other app like maya max LW etc as a workflow.

I personally need 3-6 months to really try an app. I bought 3DC the second night though. I also bought zbrush after a month or so (2 years ago)

My workflow includes blender too. Now after so many time I'm testing LW, modo etc. Its not easy to decide just watching galleries and videos.

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I read all those cons and pro's regarding Zbrush. And all kinds of vids from R4.

Don't forget the Price. It is $700.. 3Dcoat is $350 in 10 days.

I think, when you look at the price, you may expect more tools etc from Zbrush.

3Dcoat is great and not too expensive. Even for me it is affordable (as a hobbyist). Can't say this from Zbrush.

Anyway, Zbrush looks cool, if it is better than 3DC.. I can't say because I don't own Zbrush. In the end it all depends on the creativity of the owner.

Peace,

Rich_Art. :good:

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Yeah it's definitely down to the user skills also, they have a lot of stuff on the forum that is no where near the quality of the featured posts but when people visit they instantly see those. I was looking at there site today and most of those featured posts use other apps like maya, rendering apps or compositing tricks to get much nicer results so having apps good artists use doesn't always mean everyone will be able to instantly make amazing things at the same quality level.

But yeah i agree with what others say, 3d apps will always have some fancy looking images in the gallery's but it would be much better to demo the apps first because it's all down to user choice and workflow. Zbrush sadly seems to have no interest in offering a demo though even though it would no doubt help them with sales, last time i checked it was still for 3.1 or something so old and without the newer features to test.

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I still find it puzzling why a company that trumps it's innovation is still stuck in a 32 bit environment. Sure it's efficient, but that is just no excuse for being this far behind in that regard. Just about every CG application out there has a 64bit version. I thought surely they would have gotten it in gear with v4.

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I still find it puzzling why a company that trumps it's innovation is still stuck in a 32 bit environment. Sure it's efficient, but that is just no excuse for being this far behind in that regard. Just about every CG application out there has a 64bit version. I thought surely they would have gotten it in gear with v4.

Last weekend I gave a friend an introduction to 3DCoat via gotomeeting.

He sat in front of a three years old Laptop with only half a Gig of RAM.

We had to figure that with this machine he could not even open very simple .3b files I sent him.

The latest version of Zbrush however runs on the same machine with no issues...

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Last weekend I gave a friend an introduction to 3DCoat via gotomeeting.

He sat in front of a three years old Laptop with only half a Gig of RAM.

We had to figure that with this machine he could not even open very simple .3b files I sent him.

The latest version of Zbrush however runs on the same machine with no issues...

Like I said...that's no excuse to still be stuck in a 32bit app. Not one that is supposed to be leading edge. You're saying the guy couldn't even open 3DC on the laptop? When ZBrush can handle Volumetric data, then you can compare that orange to this apple.

Sure it's efficient for what it does, but it still has it's limitations and makes use of RAM in a big way. If they would get with the program and release a 64bit version, imagine how much further could you push it.

The lack of 64 bit, the foreign UI, and the lack of 3DConnexion device support (after pages and pages of users asking them on the forums for it) keep me away from ZBrush for the time being.

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I still find it puzzling why a company that trumps it's innovation is still stuck in a 32 bit environment. Sure it's efficient, but that is just no excuse for being this far behind in that regard. Just about every CG application out there has a 64bit version. I thought surely they would have gotten it in gear with v4.

We had some talking about my "sarcastic comments". So when you're talking about 3DC you have to remember that its still 32 bit on macs. Even the 64bit version can't handle one of my meshes from zb. My laptop zb version can.

The last room I'm using in the process is called "zbrush", its exactly what is missing from 3DC. I really can't start in zbrush from scratch (I find it sick anyway) but what I do sometimes in 3DC is enough for me. I'm using zbrush for baking some textures now, like normals displacements and cavity. For decimation or sometimes UVmaster too. I own zbrush, I have to find a job for it. :)

About costs: zbrush=700$, 3DC=350$+nvidia n$+12GB RAM n$, am I right?

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We had some talking about my "sarcastic comments". So when you're talking about 3DC you have to remember that its still 32 bit on macs. Even the 64bit version can't handle one of my meshes from zb. My laptop zb version can.

The last room I'm using in the process is called "zbrush", its exactly what is missing from 3DC. I really can't start in zbrush from scratch (I find it sick anyway) but what I do sometimes in 3DC is enough for me. I'm using zbrush for baking some textures now, like normals displacements and cavity. For decimation or sometimes UVmaster too. I own zbrush, I have to find a job for it. :)

About costs: zbrush=700$, 3DC=350$+nvidia n$+12GB RAM n$, am I right?

I feel for you on the MAC front...and I asked the guys at Siggraph about getting a MAC 64bit version, and they said they would get on it. From what I understand it's being currently worked on. At least that's more than you get from Pixologic.

As for the CUDA card...you don't HAVE to have one of those to get good speed out of Voxels (particularly the Surface tools). It's even faster with the 3.5.1 release. The painting is wicked fast now, as is Surface mode sculpting (with the multi-thread Intel libraries)...and Andrew said that's just the beginning. So, there is some degree of tradeoff no matter what application you choose (including Mudbox...which I think is very appealing just on the pure sculpting side). Each person has to determine which ones they are willing to settle with.

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The multi threading version on the mac works fine actually. There's the limit of 4GB ram but its fine for me. I'm having seamless results now and as you may noticed I stopped complaining and just do my sculpts here. I still use zbrush for some details as I mentioned, I don't believe in stand alone apps anyway. No such a thing IMO.

If 4GB is not enough what's the next step ? Is it 16 GB? Am I right? Practically I have a decent performance at 6M per mesh now. Using proxy I can do some more. What I don't like is the performance of re-topo and UV room. Heavy... with more than ~10k, but who needs more?

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Still prefer zb on my mac to be honest. Performance wise it kills 3dc even on my modbook, which I absolutely love being able to sculpt with. Can't really use 3dc on that machine due to the graphics card limitation. I don't think 3dc will compete with zb in performance anyway even with a 64 bit mac version because it's still largely going to depend on video hardware - something zb doesn't require.

The latest ZB update really does a good job at competing with voxels and their freeform capabilities. I feel perfectly fine doing a block out sculpt in it now with a sphere or some sketch spheres, or even shadowbox and then just hitting the "Re-mesh" and "Reproject" buttons and continuing on with my sculpt. Functionally this is no different than sculpting out in voxels for me, only I have the added benefit of using the best sculpting and refining brushes, transform/pose tools, masking and selection/visiblility tools on the market. 3dc is weak in all these areas by comparison.

I never feel the need to build a base mesh for zb anymore - a big reason why I moved over to voxels in the first place. I never need to retopologize a mesh or worry about tearing or corruption of a voxel mesh when using pose tools or switching between surface mode - which I find to be a clunky, frustrating solution - which actually caused me to continue to use 3dc only for voxel blockouts, and then send them to zb anyway for finishing.

I think in sculpting 3dc has the lead with its pen options, especially with curves, and its boolean capabilities. I think for hard surface stuff this is much more suitable than using shadowbox, but again, zbrush's brushes close the gap in this area.

Overall I've found myself gravitating back towards zbrush for more sculpting and not just detailing. Not really saying all this to be inflammatory, more out of observation of my own habits and use patterns with my tools. One of the advantages of using multiple tools with overlapping functionality is that I can jump from one to the other as they leap frog each other in features and functionality and take advantage of the best they have to offer. Maybe Andrew can benefit from observations like this. Right now, my biggest use case for 3dc remains in the paint room, and for retopology. Those are things zbrush either can't do well, or does them differently enough that I can't use them as effectively for my work - largely game content creation. That's not to say I haven't been able to pull some nice sculpts out of the voxel room - I have. Unfortunately it's stuff I can't show at the moment, but as of right now, with ZB4 I just find I have less restrictions and jumping through hoops to deal with than previous versions, making me want to spend more time with it.

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James:

When you rough out a voxel mesh, how do you export it for use in Zbrush? Do you use "Export object" from within the Voxel Room, or do you do your topology with 3DC tools?

Greg Smith

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James:

When you rough out a voxel mesh, how do you export it for use in Zbrush? Do you use "Export object" from within the Voxel Room, or do you do your topology with 3DC tools?

Greg Smith

Greg: Yup, just export as an obj, triangles and all. Zbrush does a fine job of rebuilding the mesh in quads with a nice even distribution. More than good enough to continue sculpting with. I found this to be faster and more reliable than doing an auto retopology pass on the voxel mesh, with the benefit of being able to use subdivision history in zbrush without losing the details I sculpted in 3dcoat. My main goal is to be able to avoid working with polygons at all until I'm done, so sculpt first and only bother with retopology at the very end when I need an animation mesh and uvs, regardless of whether I start in 3dc or zbrush.

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Functionally this is no different than sculpting out in voxels for me

I disagree on this point. Voxel sculpture is far the most close to the real thing. Freedom at last. Sculpture cutting the stone at last. Voxel mode tools may be 4-5 only but work in a way I like. Scrape-you shouldn't rename this to flatten- and pinch (voxel pinch is completely different than the surface one).

I'm a mac user as a zbrusher too and I really like the new v4.

I prefer to finish the job in zbrush due to performance and the great surface tools. And setting - or testing - a pose, lets not forget this.

I prefer zbrush to bake bumps- normals too.

But my workflow is, real sculpture in 3dc, manual re-topo, export to zb, export a reference tri mesh too, divide and reproject. Never export a high poly from ptex (I have my reasons)

I could be really happy if 3dc was able to finish the job. But the danger is always there. Always comes the moment that I can't finish the sculpture. Then I have to decimate and export just a base for zbrush. And lose any details.

Is 3DC a leader app for sculpturing or its a trap? The truth IMO is in the middle. When 3DC will have a massive surface sculpt room then it will be the leader. But we have zbrush for this job.

Greg: Yup, just export as an obj, triangles and all. Zbrush does a fine job of rebuilding the mesh in quads with a nice even distribution. More than good enough to continue sculpting with. I found this to be faster and more reliable than doing an auto retopology pass on the voxel mesh, with the benefit of being able to use subdivision history in zbrush without losing the details I sculpted in 3dcoat. My main goal is to be able to avoid working with polygons at all until I'm done, so sculpt first and only bother with retopology at the very end when I need an animation mesh and uvs, regardless of whether I start in 3dc or zbrush.

Reliable you said? You are among the few that claim this. In most cases you end up with a complete mess. You can't compare this with the autotopo of 3DC. To project the hi tri to the low autopo works, but to project an adaptive zb skin? I suppose you don't use a more than 100k adaptive skin, do you. A 100k skin is useless.

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I disagree on this point. Voxel sculpture is far the most close to the real thing. Freedom at last. Sculpture cutting the stone at last. Voxel mode tools may be 4-5 only but work in a way I like. Scrape-you shouldn't rename this to flatten- and pinch (voxel pinch is completely different than the surface one).

I'm a mac user as a zbrusher too and I really like the new v4.

I prefer to finish the job in zbrush due to performance and the great surface tools. And setting - or testing - a pose, lets not forget this.

I prefer zbrush to bake bumps- normals too.

But my workflow is, real sculpture in 3dc, manual re-topo, export to zb, export a reference tri mesh too, divide and reproject. Never export a high poly from ptex (I have my reasons)

I could be really happy if 3dc was able to finish the job. But the danger is always there. Always comes the moment that I can't finish the sculpture. Then I have to decimate and export just a base for zbrush. And lose any details.

Is 3DC a leader app for sculpturing or its a trap? The truth IMO is in the middle. When 3DC will have a massive surface sculpt room then it will be the leader. But we have zbrush for this job.

Reliable you said? You are among the few that claim this. In most cases you end up with a complete mess. You can't compare this with the autotopo of 3DC. To project the hi tri to the low autopo works, but to project an adaptive zb skin? I suppose you don't use a more than 100k adaptive skin, do you. A 100k skin is useless.

Oh, I'm not comparing it. I agree, on a purely technical level auto retopology generates a better mesh, and I have no problem with using it after I've finished sculpting completely, as a quick start to doing my final mesh for texturing and animation. What I am saying is that for me it simply isn't necessary to use it during sculpting. Zbrush has so many tools available that allow me to work without being anal about base topology, so I simply don't. When remesh does 'good enough', that's all I care about. I just choose to go the path of least resistance. I don't need a technically perfect mesh for sculpting in zbrush anymore. It's less hassle for me to just export an obj that retains all my voxel details than to retopo it in 3dc. I'm just saving that stage for the end, where I have to be more technical for animation and texturing reasons. Really all I've said is that I feel zbrush has taken steps to be less dependent on topology up front - which is a big reason why I was an early adopter of voxel sculpting. Will I stop using voxels altogether because of this? Nope. I fully expect the tools to continue to evolve at a rapid pace and probably leap frog zbrush again in other areas. Looking forward to it too.

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