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3D-Coat 3.5 updates thread


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Where I would like to see more versatility is in the retopo room. I'd love for this to just be a real modeling area complete with polygon editing, transform tools and primitives. Retopologizing primitives like cylinders and flat surfaces is more painful than just slapping down an optimized primitive that represents the shapes you don't want to retopologize. I think this would bring 3dcoat much closer to being an all in one app, as right now I still spend a significant amount of time using a modeling package for certain things. It would be way easier to bounce between different rooms in 3dcoat rather than between completely different apps, just to handle specific modeling cases. I think it would be cool to have a surface snap toggle in the retopo layers palette beside each layer too - that way I could retopo and model at the same time, only using surface snapping for the pieces that need it.

It would also be great to be able to model specific objects that you want to use for booleans, custom spline shapes, or anything else that voxel primitives can't handle as easily, instead of having to make them in an external app.

Being a modo user, wouldn't you find it preferable to edit in modo through Applink? I've been testing Applink with Blender and would love to see an Applink with modo. I was a little skeptical about the functionality of Applink but after testing for a short time I must report that I find it to be awesomely useful. Or possibly I'm missing something?

P. Monk

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Being a modo user, wouldn't you find it preferable to edit in modo through Applink? I've been testing Applink with Blender and would love to see an Applink with modo. I was a little skeptical about the functionality of Applink but after testing for a short time I must report that I find it to be awesomely useful. Or possibly I'm missing something?

P. Monk

You're not missing anything, that is the whole point of these AppLinks. It will become more apparent as some of the other AppLinks are finished up just how useful it really is.

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Being a modo user, wouldn't you find it preferable to edit in modo through Applink? I've been testing Applink with Blender and would love to see an Applink with modo. I was a little skeptical about the functionality of Applink but after testing for a short time I must report that I find it to be awesomely useful. Or possibly I'm missing something?

P. Monk

I've used goz with modo a few times and it did what I needed, but I haven't had any major need for it in my workflow as it is. I generally don't do a lot of tweaking that requires an applink. I either build for what I need in the sculpt - which is why I love voxels, or I make changes at the end when I'm retopologizing or doing UV work. At this point it really isn't a big deal to just use obj as a go-between format to whatever package I happen to be using. Same thing if I just need a custom shape imported into 3dcoat. The time savings of an applink isn't going to make much difference for me. I still think it's cool to see 3dcoat getting them though.

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Being a modo user, wouldn't you find it preferable to edit in modo through Applink? I've been testing Applink with Blender and would love to see an Applink with modo. I was a little skeptical about the functionality of Applink but after testing for a short time I must report that I find it to be awesomely useful. Or possibly I'm missing something?

P. Monk

I think what James is asking for, is having more full-featured modeling capability in the retopo room, that will aid in the retopo process. A Transform tool that lets you select elements and shows a transform gizmo is just one of those that is sorely needed, IMO. Extrude and Bevel/Chamfer/Fillet Tool is also needed. These aren't meant to be a replacement for modeling applications...but if you think about it, Retopology essentially is a process where you MODEL a lower res mesh. With that in mind, why not have more tools...tools any modeler is accustomed to, to model with?

As much as I like the Retopo tools in 3DC, I've been considering doing the work in 3ds Max using the WrapIt plugin (and the built-in Retopo Tools in the Graphite Modeling toolset), for these reasons. They work in conjunction with the modeling tools already in Max.

This are a good examples:

http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/WrapIt#watch%3Dv17474105HTFwAd47

http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/WrapIt#watch%3Dv17365278F7KDMw8w

http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/WrapIt#watch%3Dv173511813ErqdCaB

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I think what James is asking for, is having more full-featured modeling capability in the retopo room, that will aid in the retopo process. A Transform tool that lets you select elements and shows a transform gizmo is just one of those that is sorely needed, IMO. Extrude and Bevel/Chamfer/Fillet Tool is also needed. These aren't meant to be a replacement for modeling applications...but if you think about it, Retopology essentially is a process where you MODEL a lower res mesh. With that in mind, why not have more tools...tools any modeler is accustomed to, to model with?

As much as I like the Retopo tools in 3DC, I've been considering doing the work in 3ds Max using the WrapIt plugin (and the built-in Retopo Tools in the Graphite Modeling toolset), for these reasons. They work in conjunction with the modeling tools already in Max.

This are a good examples:

http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/WrapIt#watch%3Dv17474105HTFwAd47

http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/WrapIt#watch%3Dv17365278F7KDMw8w

http://www.veoh.com/search/videos/q/WrapIt#watch%3Dv173511813ErqdCaB

Same, I'll often send a mesh over to silo and just eyeball some things and essentially use the stuff I imported from 3dcoat as reference for putting down mesh primitives etc. There's definitely a case for modeling tools alongside the retopo tools in 3dc moreso when things like manipulators and primitives already exist in the other rooms.

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Hi Andrew

i will test the 03 version and hope that some Bugs are fixed for me it is very important that the program has no crashes all others in my Bug list

(see Post from me in Bug Forum) is not so important most of them are small design errors but crashes are not usable for me.

thanks a lot for fast reaction

Andre

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If anyone is interested in the applinks planned Andrew said this a while back -

In general we have in pipeline

Max, Maya, LW, Blender, Houdini, XSI, C4D, ZBrush, Rhino, Messiah, list may be expanded.

and recently -

XSI AppLink is expected in 1-2 weeks

Maya in a week

LW in 2-3 weeks.

Messiah - in couple of days

Houdini - in 2-3 weeks

So quite a few should appear soon and i guess Modo will also be added to the list as it is quite popular.

Modo or other app developers could also add it as there is info available here -

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=5596

That thread is still in the SDK forum btw so it might be better to move it to the new applink forum area.

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For those using this feature (especially you Beat :) )

It seems i found way to prevent crash 100% of times when using new Export Dense Quad feature

: File-Save file

To be done EACH TIME before exporting.

Also,on another topic:

I just wanted to tell the UI Team that "merge visible" command has been wrongly renamed "merge with Subtree"

which is wrong naming and also a wrong new description is now associated with it.

I think you guys wanted to rename "combine with children" command and renamed "merge visible" instead.

Merge visible really merge everything visible,regardless of subtree.

Please doublecheck before incorporating your changes in the updates.

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For those using this feature (especially you Beat :) )

It seems i found way to prevent crash 100% of times when using new Export Dense Quad feature

: File-Save file

To be done EACH TIME before exporting.

Yeah I kinda found it to help, but didn't make the link, I will follow your advice to see if it's THE workaround. Thank you. ;)

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Michalis, I agree 3dc is not always stable. But don't be so bitter, cause you always have the save on crash happening, and it works. You could indeed have autosave activated and set to 1 minute and still can't work because the app crashes before the 1 minute deadine. In a word, you could be working on silo. But thankfully 3dc is certainly not silo :)

@Artman: I tried your suggestion, so far no more crashes, I hope it will continue, if it does I'm a very happy man till Andrew fix it :)

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cause you always have the save on crash happening, and it works

One comment from a mac user here, sorry. There are two categories of 3dc users, the mac one is not so happy, have you noticed this?

Silo is more stable than 3DC, - from a mac user again (I trashed this app anyway). Everything is more stable in a matter of fact. :)

Not that bitter, I have to explain. I experienced so many crashes yesterday, I spent hours in place of some five min to be able to export to blender. When I'm working in 3dc I'm not sure if I manage to see my work rendered in another app.

I'm sure Andrew will fix these somehow. I hope so.

Andrew is my hero for one reason. He realized the artists needs, this sounds impossible, not for him though.

Maybe he's not so good on optimization. Who knows. But what matters is that he produces an app not only for standard VG 'methods'. Thats why I'm staying here, waiting... Am I the only one who thinks like this? No, of course not.

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One comment from a mac user here, sorry. There are two categories of 3dc users, the mac one is not so happy, have you noticed this?

Silo is more stable than 3DC, - from a mac user again (I trashed this app anyway). Everything is more stable in a matter of fact. :)

Not that bitter, I have to explain. I experienced so many crashes yesterday, I spent hours in place of some five min to be able to export to blender. When I'm working in 3dc I'm not sure if I manage to see my work rendered in another app.

I'm sure Andrew will fix these somehow. I hope so.

Andrew is my hero for one reason. He realized the artists needs, this sounds impossible, not for him though.

Maybe he's not so good on optimization. Who knows. But what matters is that he produces an app not only for standard VG 'methods'. Thats why I'm staying here, waiting... Am I the only one who thinks like this? No, of course not.

Sorry, but I have to put my $.02 worth in here.

I do most of my work on a Mac. Most, but not all. Before buying a license to 3D-Coat v3.5 (both Mac and Windows), I, of course, downloaded the trial version of both 3D-Coat v2 and then 3D-Coat v3 when it was first released. Now, my experience with v2 was not so good for two reasons: 1) I am a native English speaker and the English translation for 3D-Coat was very, very difficult to follow at that time, so I found it difficult to learn the tools and proper workflow. This has since been corrected and, IMO, the English translation is VERY good and especially the pop-up help for the tools are VERY descriptive and helpful! 2) After launch, v2 on my Mac would crash almost every time I selected a tool and tried to use it. I'm not kidding, it was unusable, IMO. Now, my initial trial of v3 was better. The English translation was excellent, so, no problem there. However, I still had the problem with crashing on the Mac.

Now, as of 3D-Coat v3.5.01 or v3.5.02, I cannot recall which build (it was the build after Andrew got advice from NVidia on OpenGL optimizations), I believe that my Mac build is not only rock solid, but it actually feels faster than my Windows version for once. Now, there is another caveat of the Mac version that I've noticed over the Windows version-notifications. By this, I am talking about showing the user progress when 3DC is performing an operation. For example, when using AUTOPO, the Windows version shows the progress bar with an explanation of what 3DC is currently doing, as well as a % in the title bar of it's progress. In the Mac version, sometimes I get a progress bar, sometimes I don't, when I do, it's usually blank with no info, and I also have the spinning "beach ball" which makes it appear as though 3DC has crashed, even in the Dock it offers to Force Quit the app. However, I've found that if I just get up, walk away for a minute or so and come back, the operation is complete and 3DC is back to normal. Even the Windows version tends to say 3DC is "Not Responding" in the title bar and the screen will fade (On Windows 7, anyway), giving the impression of a crash, however, patience proves that if you just leave it alone for a few minutes, it will finish its calculations and return to normal. Thing is, without the progress bar appearing on the Mac version in most situations, it totally looks and acts as if the program has crashed. Thing is, it usually hasn't. Perhaps this is due to the lack of a 64-bit Mac version, yet? So there is less RAM available for intensive operations and there is more virtual memory being used? IDK, but all I do know is that the optimizations Andrew has made in the last 2 or 3 builds has made a world of difference on my Mac version.

Keep up the great work, Andrew!!!

-Patrick

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I've often thought that it would be cool if Andrew added a whole subD modeling toolkit to 3d Coat. But this might be a mistake. After I saw the Modo in Paris video last week it's evident that subD poly modeling is going in a whole new direction...Renderman shaders that handle the heavy lifting of sub D modeling in Modo is coming in 501...this is closely analogous to the bevel shaders in Mental Ray I suppose.

I think it would be wiser for Andrew to go toe to toe with Mari. This is an area where he can win because 3d Coat's painting tools are the best in the business so far, better than Maxon's or anybody's save perhaps for Mari in certain areas. We shall see. I haven't tried Mari yet.

I think Andrew can beat the crap out of them if he wants to.

There's plenty of good modeling programs around...but really top notch 3d painting programs is another matter. They're all relatively weak compared to the modeling programs out there. What we need is really intuitive artists tools for painting textures in 3d real time, not the old Photoshop Maya UV map shuffle.

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Updated to 3.5.04 [beta] (Win+Mac, Linux - I hope tomorrow)

Changes:

- New brush engine in paint and voxel surface modes. Native voxels are still untouched. The main purpose was to make strokes cleaner and smoother.

- New brushes: Scratches, Mud, Inflate

- Every tool stores own brush/alpha. It can be turned off in preferences.

- Fixed OSX clipboard memory leak problem.

- Fixed bug - incorrect export of world space normalmap when normalmap layer is present.

- SL-related prolem solved - http://bit.ly/bZYJHL

- Depth based shaders will work in ortho mode too.

- Fixed bleeding problem while exporting PSD with just current layer.

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Errr am I missing something Andrew? I'm using the latest beta (3.5.04), and when I apply a stroke with the paint or airbrush tools it just places a splotch and will not continue painting... Tested and verified with x64 CUDA on both DX and OGL versions.

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Downloaded 3.5.04. when opening the app, it says "3D-Coat cannot be opened because of a problem"

Process: 3D-Coat [1790]

Path: /Applications/3D-Coat-V3/3D-Coat.app/Contents/MacOS/3D-Coat

Identifier: com.yourcompany.3D-Coat

Version: ??? (???)

Code Type: X86 (Native)

Parent Process: launchd [101]

Date/Time: 2010-11-03 18:30:15.638 +0100

OS Version: Mac OS X 10.6.4 (10F2090)

Report Version: 6

Interval Since Last Report: 943375 sec

Crashes Since Last Report: 20

Per-App Crashes Since Last Report: 1

Anonymous UUID: ...

Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP)

Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000002, 0x0000000000000000

Crashed Thread: 0

Dyld Error Message:

Library not loaded: @executable_path/libtbb.dylib

Referenced from: /Applications/3D-Coat-V3/3D-Coat.app/Contents/MacOS/3D-Coat

Reason: image not found

Model: iMac11,3, BootROM IM112.0057.B00, 2 processors, Intel Core i5, 3.6 GHz, 12 GB, SMC 1.59f2

Graphics: ATI Radeon HD 5750, ATI Radeon HD 5750, PCIe, 1024 MB

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Errr am I missing something Andrew? I'm using the latest beta (3.5.04), and when I apply a stroke with the paint or airbrush tools it just places a splotch and will not continue painting... Tested and verified with x64 CUDA on both DX and OGL versions.

Same issue here, it just paints one splotch :(

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Didn't see any change in the brush reaction to be honest, but I REALLY like the alpha association by tool.

Hmm, I'm getting tons of artefact when sculpting in surface mode... Holes, vertices spiking around etc... Not good, at all :x

Rapid brush + quick brushing=

SS-2010-11-03_19.04.11.jpg

ogl 64bits cuda but doing the same in direct x version

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I haven't had problems with painting (no splotches) but tried to use pose tool in surface mode and all went crazy. :( The good news is that we all know Andrew is probably 'on it' as we speak! :D

Windows 7 64 bit Cuda

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