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3D-Coat 3.5 updates thread


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Andrew,here are more precisions just to add a little to the description of the 3(4) problems Ive encountered in Surface mode.

-It seems new brush engine have a very hard time understanding the grayscale

values that are in the brushes images.

Its very weak regarding this compared to older engine.

Its especially noticable when using clay,absolute and extrude brush.

It seem to understand the 'outline' or 'shape' of the image ok but very poorly the grayscale depth.

-Also problem with black holes appearing on mesh is easier to reproduce with Sf.Clay mostly by smoothing and doing 'invert' action with large brush fastly.

-Finally,the feeling is not as smooth as older engine,it feels 'jumpy',but very very fast jumps,

especially when using small brush sizes,

it feels like a lot of superfast small incremental jumps...

I can hear them if i have my headphones on.:D

Sometimes I get 300-400 fps strokes with smaller brush size,I think maybe its going too fast. . :pardon:

(I tried inc render on/off,cuda on/off...i will test Gl today.)

Hope you will be able to reproduce and fix those areas without too much pain. :)

Gtx 280 cuda dx 64 win vista ,Intuos 4

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In paint room selected texture parameters (position, scale, rotation) should be intact while navigating.

Rotating view around model makes texture to zoom in/out. Precise positioning is completely impossible.

It should be (it would be very useful)  possibility to load the texture with no tiling and not 'synchronized' with navigating view.

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-It seems new brush engine have a very hard time understanding the grayscale

values that are in the brushes images.

Its very weak regarding this compared to older engine.

Its especially noticable when using clay,absolute and extrude brush.

It seem to understand the 'outline' or 'shape' of the image ok but very poorly the grayscale depth.

The current algorithm of brushes is rather like PS/ZB/MB - sequential blending together many spaced alphas. It makes tops of "hills" more planar than alpha "hill" is.

It is common to all existing brushing engines. It results with good PS-like stroke self intersection.

-Also problem with black holes appearing on mesh is easier to reproduce with Sf.Clay mostly by smoothing and doing 'invert' action with large brush fastly.

thiis will be finally fixed even if I can now reproduce it (with 3.5.04A)

-Finally,the feeling is not as smooth as older engine,it feels 'jumpy',but very very fast jumps,

especially when using small brush sizes,

it feels like a lot of superfast small incremental jumps...

I can hear them if i have my headphones on.:D

Sometimes I get 300-400 fps strokes with smaller brush size,I think maybe its going too fast. . :pardon:

I think all this becomes more clear with above description. You may set bigger or less spacing.

Also in 3.5.04B "Draw by spots" will work more correctly producing accurate spots - without smooth blending between spots.

Also airbrush-like brushes will produce shape that is closer to original alpha shape than extrude-like tools. Airbrush is additive, so shape is preserved, extrude blends alphas together.

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If someone experiences problems with retopo speed please explain me how to reproduce it or send me 3B file that has this problem.

On my side all works really fast.

I want to make re-upload today to finally fix all the rest of small problems so I need this info really urgent. Please help.

Just did retopo on a 7 mil tri object and didn't have any slowdown at all - works great here. Windows 7 64 bit CUDA.

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Also airbrush-like brushes will produce shape that is closer to original alpha shape than extrude-like tools. Airbrush is additive, so shape is preserved, extrude blends alphas together.

Its a shame because absolute brush was very strong when using alphas to make hard surface designs.

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6618

Reason for this is because its the only brush that strokes can cross over themselves and not overlap.

But its not big problem for me because I can use both builds. :)

Edit:Also new Inflate tool is not an Inflate brush at all.

I remember when you had request to implement it and from description of op it sounded like the brush was only extruding along normals which is not true,it expand differently than just extrusion.

Try Zbrush Inflate.

Or Sculptris Inflate.(free..so you probably have it installed).

Or Mudbox Bulge.(maybe you have trial demo)

You will see instanly what Im talking about.

Its like sending air into a balloon.

in·flate (n-flt)

v. in·flat·ed, in·flat·ing, in·flates

v.tr.

1. To fill (something) with air or gas so as to make it swell.

2.

a. To enlarge or amplify unduly or improperly; aggrandize.

b. To raise or expand abnormally or improperly. See Synonyms at exaggerate.

The good news is that you already have it. :)

It is Inverted Chisel.

Inverted Chisel IS an Inflate brush.:brush:

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Its a shame because absolute brush was very strong when using alphas to make hard surface designs.

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6618

Yes, this is resolved, was not too hard. It will even much better that was. Probably I will add checkbox "Sharp shape" for Absolute, Gum, Extrude.

This also given me good idea how to bring new brush engine to voxels with no big pain.

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A feature request.

You know how, if you have a color selected, materials modulate that color. Well, I'd like to be able to have that effect applied to a layer's color instead of a single color. That way one could apply subtle changes of shade to a layer based on a mask.

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Please explain a bit to be able to reproduce problems.

dx cuda 64

perfectly reproducable for me - both in existing files and in new ones - making a polygon and moving points is very slow, regardless of the mesh complexity

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-Also problem with black holes appearing on mesh is easier to reproduce with Sf.Clay mostly by smoothing and doing 'invert' action with large brush fastly.

thiis will be finally fixed even if I can now reproduce it (with 3.5.04A)

I can confirm this, you know already of course. :) In the video I sent you the other night this is the same bug, except with the "scratches"/rake tool.

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-Finally,the feeling is not as smooth as older engine,it feels 'jumpy',but very very fast jumps,

especially when using small brush sizes,

it feels like a lot of superfast small incremental jumps...

I can hear them if i have my headphones on.:D

What are they saying to you?

...And how does that make you feel (<what a Psychologist would say)? :p:

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Note that this was with 3.5.04A (Cuda) (DX) on windows XP but i will post anyway and re-download as it seems there has been a quick update now -

In Voxel mode sometimes when using the airbrush with Interpolate and the diamond/pyramid brush if i move it over areas that are already detailed the display glitches and you can see transparent bits. This happens more when zoomed in close and they will go away if you draw over that area again or switch to another tool like Smooth and click on them. If i start a new project and do the same thing with the same brush settingas it would not always happen though.

I often get this type of thing when sculpting on a cube which is angled to see the other sides and then drawing over the edge of one face. I can repeat this, it's just a visual glitch though and if i rotate the camera they often go after.

Also for some reason i am sometimes getting Paint modes icons and materials when i am using voxel mode.

-----

The new surface tools are great by the way. It would be great to have a few options to adjust these like you can with a few of the other surface tools. For scratches maybe line amount and variation controls then for Mud maybe a few grain modes, grain size so you could have larger lumps and other variation controls so you could also use this for other terrain surface styles.

By the way i just updated both my forum threads -

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6722&view=findpost&p=52493

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6259&view=findpost&p=52490

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dx cuda 64

perfectly reproducable for me - both in existing files and in new ones - making a polygon and moving points is very slow, regardless of the mesh complexity

Would it be too much trouble for you to clear each layer and start fresh, cause I have had some very rare occurrences where one of those Points and Faces points was hanging out in space or hidden, or just a mysterious hidden vert or something....which exhibited the very same behavior you're describing. After nuking everything (clearing), it was back to normal.
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dx cuda 64

perfectly reproducable for me - both in existing files and in new ones - making a polygon and moving points is very slow, regardless of the mesh complexity

Same here, doesn't matter what mesh I used - they were all sluggish. Sorry I cant send a test scene.

My specs:

3D Coat - 64 DX Cuda

Win7 64 Bit

Intel Q9450

8GB RAM

GeForce 8800GTS (G92)

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Nice, do the bug fixes include what i just posted (#287) above?

When i got the paint mode icons the only way to fix it was close and re-start the app as it broke other things also like the results of the selected brush and current voxel mode etc.

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I re-uploaded 3.5.04B [win]. Changes:

- "Sharp shape" checkbox in extrude-based tools

- fixed known bugs of 3.5.04

- falloff stored per tool

- probably fixed retopo lag, but I am not sure, it was hard to reproduce

If all will be OK, I will upload Mac and Linux builds tomorrow.

Nice, thank you. Random color modes work again. And wow, the paintengine is very fast now. Great :)

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I haven't any major problems so far, no black holes, PPP and brushes work fine. Topology and UVs performance seems improved. Thanks Andrew. On MACOSX

I tested it for 2-3 hours. Haven't seen any memory leaks so far.

There's a problem with baking (was on the previous build too) a strange magenta on color layer (looks like AO), AO layer is fine though. Restarting helps but the solution is to copy-rename the vox layer. Who knows, I posted to Andrew,

I found another one. Rendering stops at 210 samples.

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I'm seeing a lot of strange marks or tearing with the Inflate tool. I saw it before, but then it went away so I thought it was fixed, but now I see it again.

Video:

http://screencast.com/t/hDiEn4Rs

I've tried this with or without CUDA and it happens either way. I have noticed that using any other tool on these spots will make them disappear, so it seems to be a graphical problem. This is with DX 64

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Then the blackhole/spiking vertices bug is not corrected. That's what I was talking about earlier, and if you press enter, it jsut create chunks of useless geometry.

I'm downloading, waiting to confirm.

[EDIT] CONFIRMED with voxels brushes.

128898702348.jpg

Even if I'm still "complaining", I would like to sincerely thank Andrew for the last few versions, the changes on the brushes and the way they work is a very important step toward general usability of vox room. Even if there's still room for enhancements, the changes so far are pushing my enthusiasm for the app. I hope it continues till it feels really natural :drinks:

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Getting back to what Artman was saying in regards to the "Inflate" tool. The way it works in ZBrush (and Mudbox) is that it extrudes each vertex along it's own normal...right now, it seems to extrude along the surface normal.

http://www.pixologic.com/docs/index.php/Inflate_Brush

"Inflate: In contrast to the Std brush, which pulls or pushes geometry along the normal of the surface under the center of the brush, Inflat expands geometry by pushing vertices along their own normals. This can be particularly important when you are doing sculpts that displace the surface a large amount with just one or two strokes."

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Then the blackhole/spiking vertices bug is not corrected. That's what I was talking about earlier, and if you press enter, it jsut create chunks of useless geometry.

Yes and the tools not following the default brushes is also still not fixed. It looks like they're being cut off at the top. As if you used the round brush (pen alpha) and then used the flatten tool on top of it.

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