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3D-Coat 3.5 updates thread


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Where would be the best place to start a thread about the new plane functionality? I want to create a video showing several of the uses I have found as well as open a conversation about how the tool could develop.

Thanks again Andrew for the planes.. I have barely even started to tap the Sculpting workflows where these planes appliy.

IC

Probably the TUTORIALS section. I'd like to see that, myself, as I'm not sure exactly how it works. All I saw was just an image with some points on it. Doesn't do anything to explain how it functions.
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Probably the TUTORIALS section. I'd like to see that, myself, as I'm not sure exactly how it works. All I saw was just an image with some points on it. Doesn't do anything to explain how it functions or what tool(s) it works with

It's kind of like a construction plane in other 3D apps. With the normal Plane tool you can right-click to create this plane, with the new 3-point setting you're using those 3 points to define the plane. Where it gets interesting is the 4-point mode because with a fourth point you can make it bend.

Like this:

http://screencast.com/t/gUirSVjDs2X

Although you can see at the end of that video there a problem a hole appears that shouldn't be there. I also have a lot of trouble using my 3D Mouse when in "current pick point" mode.

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Where would be the best place to start a thread about the new plane functionality? I want to create a video showing several of the uses I have found as well as open a conversation about how the tool could develop.

Thanks again Andrew for the planes.. I have barely even started to tap the Sculpting workflows where these planes appliy.

IC

Great idea. I created this thread just now:

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7789

if you want to share your ideas how to improve the plane tool. I have couple ideas too so let's share them, and in the end we can write mantis report for feature request.

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No prob, I was really just playing with it. I still haven't figured out how to make it do anything useful.

I can't think of anything either. No way to use it with any level of precision without there being some sort of preview grid between the points.

http://features.cgsociety.org/story.php?story_id=6110&referer=cgnews

Also, I just stumbled across this little nugget of info....CUDA 4.0 toolkit just released. Sounds intriguing, although I can't understand half of what the improvements are...I think 3DC is still on CUDA 2? Andrew said he hasn't update CUDA's implementation in 3DC since it was first introduced. After an extended period of bugfixing and cleaning up all the loose ends of the application, this would be my first vote as a feature request. To upgrade/optimize CUDA's implementation in 3DC.

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Great idea. I created this thread just now:

http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7789

if you want to share your ideas how to improve the plane tool. I have couple ideas too so let's share them, and in the end we can write mantis report for feature request.

Thanks for that.. Ill post a video There in about 10 minutes.. Im working on a few constructive ways of using the tool.. Looks promising..

IC

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I can't think of anything either. No way to use it with any level of precision without there being some sort of preview grid between the points.

There is a preview grid between the points, you can see it in my video above. However it only appears while you're dragging the points around. It's still not entirely useful though.

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There is a preview grid between the points, you can see it in my video, it only appears while you're dragging the points around though.

Yes.. The preview grid is awesome.. Andrew really made a very usable interactive tool right out of the gate.. Super impressed..

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Here is a video of 1 way to use the plane tool with Snake and Epanels.. An improvisational 3D sketch if you will.. I only used the 4 point plane in here.. I have found some pretty cool things for the 3 point plane as well.. As well as some subtractive abilities..

As far as things to build with it? Limitless I think..

http://www.screencast.com/users/Routb3d/folders/Jing/media/200f3e08-5029-49d4-b59f-9a5b990f8c57

IC

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I have no idea how you did that. What did the E Panel have to do with it?

Just wanted to show it Once.. The Epanels will actually be the most impressive part..

IC

I have no idea how you did that. What did the E Panel have to do with it?

Just wanted to show it Once.. The Epanels will actually be the most impressive part..

IC

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BTW you know there's only one E Panel right? :p:

I'll quit calling it that.. I got confused somewhere along the way. :).. Thanks for pointing that out. What do I call the surfaces that are drawn by a profile?

IC

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I have no idea what the significance is in using those points with the Snake tool. It didn't look like anything the Snake tool didn't do before. This is another one of those hidden little features that is just thrown out there, with little to no explanation, and seldom thought through. A good example is being able to drag any layer into the Models Pallet, and have a OBJ created on the fly. Sounds cool, and it is for the most part...but it was never thought through, nor explained how the user could get a recognizable thumbnail out of it. Right now, when you try it...the thumbnail created is all over the place. Often times just a tiny dot. There is no way to see what the darn thing is. How is the user suppose to know how to get something they can use? It's yet another rush job, on an otherwise nice feature.

Another example is being able to add a custom obj to use as a primitive. It was just kind of thrown on the floor like table scraps for a pet to eat. There is nothing in the Manual about and no clear explanation given as to how to properly create one. You have to nearly be a coder to get something workable. I could never get it to work. Depth Shaders is another enigma...I've been a long time 3DC user and have no freakin clue as to what they are and what they do. Again....just another small feature thrown to the floor for the dogs.

Andrew, can we please just stop it with all the small, rushed/incomplete features with no information for users to go on, other than a JPEG? Why take time to create the thing if users have to largely "figure it out themselves?"

I realize you have a ton of things to do all at the same time, but that's why I'm asking you to slow it down and focus on one thing at a time. Stability should be the first. Every little half-done feature like this just clutters the program up and makes it more frustrating to work with. I want the program and it's features to be stable and well thought through. Modo is a good example of that. It's not yet a full-fledged 3D Applicaiton, but what it does have is pretty darn genius and refined.

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I have no idea what the significance is in using those points with the Snake tool. It didn't look like anything the Snake tool didn't do before. This is another one of those hidden little features that is just thrown out there, with little to no explanation, and seldom thought through. A good example is being able to drag any layer into the Models Pallet, and have a OBJ created on the fly. Sounds cool, and it is for the most part...but it was never thought through, nor explained how the user could get a recognizable thumbnail out of it. Right now, when you try it...the thumbnail created is all over the place. Often times just a tiny dot. There is no way to see what the darn thing is. How is the user suppose to know how to get something they can use? It's yet another rush job, on an otherwise nice feature.

Another example is being able to add a custom obj to use as a primitive. It was just kind of thrown on the floor like table scraps for a pet to eat. There is nothing in the Manual about and no clear explanation given as to how to properly create one. You have to nearly be a coder to get something workable. I could never get it to work. Depth Shaders is another enigma...I've been a long time 3DC user and have no freakin clue as to what they are and what they do. Again....just another small feature thrown to the floor for the dogs.

Andrew, can we please just stop it with all the small, rushed/incomplete features with no information for users to go on, other than a JPEG? Why take time to create the thing if users have to largely "figure it out themselves?"

I realize you have a ton of things to do all at the same time, but that's why I'm asking you to slow it down and focus on one thing at a time. Stability should be the first. Every little half-done feature like this just clutters the program up and makes it more frustrating to work with. I want the program and it's features to be stable and well thought through. Modo is a good example of that. It's not yet a full-fledged 3D Applicaiton, but what it does have is pretty darn genius and refined.

I agree in some points, in some points - no.

I am spending a lot of time for bug fixing and stability improvement, you know it. If something is not fixed for long time, mostly because I have no idea how to.

Example is memory leak. The prolem is that every program uses dynamical memory and task manager shows some memory consumed that is actually freed by program. It is not free for system, but program will reuse this memory.

Some bugs I am unable to reproduce even if trying - like proxy disappearing bug.

All new fetaures are mostly filling missing things that are logically should be there. And new features are mostly self - explanained or have deep description in hints. You are telling about adding primitives - there is "More primitives" with detailed description. Manual may just repeat this adding nothing more.

Other erason is that ONLY fixing bugs for say month is too hard psychologically. I need to add something new and interesting sometimes, othervice I will not be able to work well.

So please - it is hard to me to feel pushing. I am trying as I can. Especilly now sleeping badly for long time because children are ill one by one circularry.

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Once again, good job on the planes Andrew! I can tell already that these will be a big useful feature.. I only got an hour or so to try them out.. Way better than I was hoping for on a first stab.. I see that Good things happen when you make time to follow your inspirations.

IC

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I have no idea what the significance is in using those points with the Snake tool. It didn't look like anything the Snake tool didn't do before. This is another one of those hidden little features that is just thrown out there, with little to no explanation, and seldom thought through. A good example is being able to drag any layer into the Models Pallet, and have a OBJ created on the fly. Sounds cool, and it is for the most part...but it was never thought through, nor explained how the user could get a recognizable thumbnail out of it. Right now, when you try it...the thumbnail created is all over the place. Often times just a tiny dot. There is no way to see what the darn thing is. How is the user suppose to know how to get something they can use? It's yet another rush job, on an otherwise nice feature.

Another example is being able to add a custom obj to use as a primitive. It was just kind of thrown on the floor like table scraps for a pet to eat. There is nothing in the Manual about and no clear explanation given as to how to properly create one. You have to nearly be a coder to get something workable. I could never get it to work. Depth Shaders is another enigma...I've been a long time 3DC user and have no freakin clue as to what they are and what they do. Again....just another small feature thrown to the floor for the dogs.

Andrew, can we please just stop it with all the small, rushed/incomplete features with no information for users to go on, other than a JPEG? Why take time to create the thing if users have to largely "figure it out themselves?"

I realize you have a ton of things to do all at the same time, but that's why I'm asking you to slow it down and focus on one thing at a time. Stability should be the first. Every little half-done feature like this just clutters the program up and makes it more frustrating to work with. I want the program and it's features to be stable and well thought through. Modo is a good example of that. It's not yet a full-fledged 3D Applicaiton, but what it does have is pretty darn genius and refined.

Dude.. Your a freaking jerk.. Read your post. Who are you anyway? Insulting and downplaying.. I'm turning you off.. You should apologize..

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And off.. :)..

One last thing on the matter..

Andrew, I wish that guy would leave you alone.. It hurts me to see the goose that lays the golden eggs prodded along by such men. NO ONE and especially not one such as yourself should be treated with such disrespect. Pissing on your hard work like that? The truth is that he does respect you.. How could he not? I believe Some people abuse the things that are dearest to them..

Sorry if I'm out of line here.. I have strong feelings about this.. I'll stop now..

Moving on..

IC

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And off.. :)..

One last thing on the matter..

Andrew, I wish that guy would leave you alone.. It hurts me to see the goose that lays the golden eggs prodded along by such men. NO ONE and especially not one such as yourself should be treated with such disrespect. Pissing on your hard work like that? The truth is that he does respect you.. How could he not? I believe Some people abuse the things that are dearest to them..

Sorry if I'm out of line here.. I have strong feelings about this.. I'll stop now..

Moving on..

IC

Don (AbnRanger) is not just some guy for me. We made many things together.

I feel some truth in his words but anyway a bit more patience in request for bugfixing is really worth to be present...

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Dude.. Your a freaking jerk.. Read your post. Who are you anyway? Insulting and downplaying.. I'm turning you off.. You should apologize..

I'll say what I think needs to be said. I gave clear examples of what I meant. When you have the application crash on you multiple times each day along with multiple bugs...when an application fights with users every day, frustrations rise and people voice their concerns, just like I'm doing here...that's life, Dr. Phil. No apologies required. I've been a big fan of 3DC, but at times it gets to the point where it's almost a daily wrestling match....kind of what Michalis goes through with the MAC version.

I can try to be more "diplomatic" but all that does is mask the deep frustration that's builds day after day (recently). I'd rather Andrew hear some of that frustration at times, so he's aware how acute the problem is. Stability is what 3D Coat needs the most right now, and it won't do a thing to promote 3DC if it develops a bad reputation for being bug-infested with lots of "unfinished" features.

That's what I'm driving at and it needs to be made clear...salty language or not. It's the absolute reality of the matter. A veteran ZBrush or Mudbox user will not have much patience when trying out the application. A few bugs and they're gone...going back to what's familiar and stable for them. Part of the problem is the multitude of additional feature requests. There are a number of things I'd like to see added, too, but I'm holding off requesting them until Andrew has had time to get things cleaned up and stabilized.

By the way, there is a "Manage Ignored Users" section under your name in the upper right hand portion of the screen. You put me on yours and I'll return the favor. Deal?

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AbnRanger has many points.

I really appreciate that Andrew is appreciative of his words, with some agreement, no less.

His statements go for so many of us who remain silent on this. Many who have shelved the software, with the same frustrations stated, longing for a stable build with which to use (WITH ALL THE GOODIES WORKING). I am amazed at some of the work that people show as I am amazed as to what I see as their amazing level of patience. Even AbnRanger.

Andrew, thanks. I can only ask that you do some of your magic behind a curtain, as it were. That is to say, just like the clay stuff isn't ready, some of your other tools should be played with by the few, not the many. At least until the whole is able to accept them and stay stable.

Stability really is the main/only complaint; fewer losses of sessions being the goal.

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Other erason is that ONLY fixing bugs for say month is too hard psychologically. I need to add something new and interesting sometimes, othervice I will not be able to work well.

Andrew if you need something fun to work on I'd be over the moon if you gave the Sandbox Tiler a go :)

ok I'll shut up now

p.s. I can understand your need to work on something interesting other than just bugs; we Artists can't have all the fun :)

oh and great work on the plane tool. I can see this being very useful for hardsurface sculpting.

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