farsthary Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Hi guys! There's no need to start a flame wars on what paradigm is better: polygons or voxels, both have advantages and disadvantages over each other and I think the solution is not to drop one branch for the sake of the other, loosing FLEXIBILITY with this action, instead we should strive to always get better in both fronts, at the end artists will be the real winners, since freedom of choice and workflow flexibility if very important. Of course, in time there will be artist that may prefer one approach or another and will get specialized on that but it doesn't mean THAT is the only way... there will be always users that want full control of tools and there will be the same mount that would like more simplicity on tools, that we need to improve GUI, Tools, etc? yes, we know that and we thanks the community for telling us your needs, and most important, we are working toward that I like 3DCoat for the huge margin of grow it still have and the potential, just as I like Blender. Desired changes will happen, though certainly not overnight, remember we as a developers should never loose the joy, curiosity, freedom and experimentation to make incredible tools, programming is also a creation process as someone shape an incredible complex and beatiful model over weeks. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 3, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 remember we as a developers should never loose the joy, curiosity, freedom and experimentation to make incredible tools, programming is also a creation process as someone shape an incredible complex and beatiful model over weeks. People tend to forget that a lot when addressing developers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted September 3, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 That's not correct.Voxels were used for nearly 20 years in commercial 3D Applications before they were implemented in 3DCoat. Andrew was the first to make Voxels available in an affordable program though and he took significant steps to develop them further. Good grief...why did I have a slight hunch you, and only you, would take the statement out of context (Voxels vs LiveClay) just for the sake of arguing. We all know about the several thousand dollar Claytools, but in this market segment, Voxels and Andrew's implementation of it, is unique. He invested a ton of brain equity into it, and therefore it isn't going to allow it to become obsolete, with or without LiveClay.http://www.sensable.com/products-claytools-system.htm I know I've mentioned Sensable's (Voxels) toolset years ago, in past posts. We are all also quite aware that Voxels are commonly used in VFX tools (Lightwaves "HyperVOXELS" as well as most Fluid/Smoke/Fire systems). I can see now that I have to waste valuable time elaborating on and qualify everything I say now, just to prevent you from twisting my words. I say that ZBrush and Mudbox has icons for their brushes/tools with visually descriptive representations, and for some reason you feel the need to correct that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member polyxo Posted September 3, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Why did I have a slight hunch you, and only you, would take the statement out of context (Voxels vs LiveClay) just for the sake of arguing. We all know about the several thousand dollar Claytools, but in this market segment, Voxels and Andrew's implementation of it, is unique. He invested a lot of brain equity into it, and therefore it isn't going to be obsolete, with or without LiveClay. I can refrain from commenting on even very questionable thesis - at least most of the time. But posting objectively wrong statements on technical achievements doesn't do the Pioneers work justice. Like it or not - this needs correction. Furher Andrew's Implementation of Voxels is not fundamentally different from Sensables - it however in many Tools is more refined, inside other Tools again Sensable has more sophisticated Solutions to offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member polyxo Posted September 3, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Hey Abn Ranger - after rewriting practically all positngs on this page why not just edit the original phrase I was refering to? So that nobody understands any more what I was talking about. Whatever - I'm out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted September 3, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I can refrain from commenting on even very questionable thesis - at least most of the time. But posting objectively wrong statements on technical achievements doesn't do the Pioneers work justice. Like it or not - this needs correction. Furher Andrew's Implementation of Voxels is not fundamentally different from Sensables - it however in many Tools is more refined, inside other Tools again Sensable has more sophisticated Solutions to offer. If I say "Volume Mode," only you would feel the need to say "there is no volume mode in the toolset" Most everyone knows what is being implied...except you. I mention that LiveClay could adopt ICONS with visually descriptive representations of the brush function...like ZBrush's Brushes pallet/panel or Mudbox's...and guess who HAS to try and correct that? You...and only you. Please, just put me on your ignore list, so we don't have to keep going through this.Edited. Let's keep hings friendly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted September 3, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 but (for now) you CAN just leave all your high frequency detail work to the end of your work stage and do all of that with LiveClay. Then just bake your maps from Surface mode. Agreed, this is the case. To just paint hi frequencies in paint room (MV) isn't for me. Except some pores probably. Just reminding you that exported baked displacements don't look sharp for the moment. These are blurring even a 10M voxel. On a 10M voxel, LC mode, just having ~twice only density in particular places. Can you imagine the equivalent of this? ~40M probably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Digital777 Posted September 3, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 That's correct, and that is what is happening at this moment, and has been happening for sometime to accommodate LC and previously for some other things. Eventually it is going to be complete, and as Andrew said the goal is to have a user customizable brush engine. It just seems to be happening sooner rather than later. That is good to know, with a decent presets system also this will be a great update i think. From what i have seen with LiveClay recently i think that anyone that was doubting 3dc for it's sculpting before will soon be changing their minds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted September 3, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 From what i have seen with LiveClay recently i think that anyone that was doubting 3dc for it's sculpting before will soon be changing their minds. What makes you say this? Doubting for 3dc sculpting faculties is depending on its tools behavior, never on the fantastic, out of the usual technical limits, approach. And the lack of an after topology multi resolution sculpt room of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Digital777 Posted September 3, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 I am talking about other on other forums, some people don't think 3dc is competition to programs like ZB or mudbox. That is not my opinion of course, i wouldn't have purchased 3dc if i thought that. Basically all i am saying is it seems there is a load of great things on the way so people are going to start noticing 3dc a lot more in the future. People who just use 3dc as a tool for retopo and texturing will probably start using it for sculpting also or as the main tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor digman Posted September 3, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 In the beginning there was voxels but void of use. The creator breathed life into them Ah, but it's not good for voxels to be alone, so the the creator made LiveClay. but the serpent was more cunning than any known beast and beguiled the users. Oh taste and see that LC is better than voxels and to another user,taste the sweet fruit of Voxels so sweet as to make LiveClay a bitter fruit. Then forever was born the flame wars of waste in the forum world. Just poking fun at human nature... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted September 3, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 Hey, you don't have to invent a brush. In real traditional painting I mean. Just do it right. Don't make things more complicated. Just do the basic tools. Create lot of other fancy tools if you like. But this won't turn 3dcoat to a basic sculpting tool. Metaphoric or metaphysics better not here. Five senses we have, and these are more than enough, these are a miracle of existence. Better start knowing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 3, 2011 Report Share Posted September 3, 2011 OK this is crazy, every time I start playing with LiveClay I get a few strokes done and then the model just disappears. I turn on the grid to help find it but that's gone too. If I switch rooms the grid briefly appears for a half a second, then it's gone again. Anyone else? I'll Mantis it too. Hard to say what's causing it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member LorenzoS Posted September 4, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 OK this is crazy, every time I start playing with LiveClay I get a few strokes done and then the model just disappears. I turn on the grid to help find it but that's gone too. If I switch rooms the grid briefly appears for a half a second, then it's gone again. Anyone else? I'll Mantis it too. Hard to say what's causing it though. Same here. I know we're still in the early stages of LC, but we should be posting even the small bugs on mantis. I'll get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member blackant Master Posted September 4, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 hello, i have just discovered some missing informations: when using Help> Check for updates my version is always up to date when i get and older version like v35-23 for exemple, i was not advert that a new update is avalable. another fing i discovered is posting on vimeo and render with post process. never eard about this befor ... where could we fund some of them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member blackant Master Posted September 4, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 v35-24 painting on voxel mode make it disappear . tried to pass into rapid sculpt make it totally invisible, but i can work in live clay, it looks to work correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member b33nine Posted September 4, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 How do the new copy tools work/how are they different than the old ones? I'm a little confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted September 4, 2011 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted September 4, 2011 How do the new copy tools work/how are they different than the old ones? I'm a little confused. Previously, you could only paint an area...the brush alpha's would not work. Now they do. It really opens things up, where you can use brush alpha's to build greebles, decorations, numbers, clothing stiches, etc. onto an object...very quickly. Then give the object it's own shader, transformations, and resolutions independent from the layer it's conformed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javis Posted September 5, 2011 Report Share Posted September 5, 2011 hello, i have just discovered some missing informations: when using Help> Check for updates my version is always up to date when i get and older version like v35-23 for exemple, i was not advert that a new update is avalable. It's not broken, it will only alert you when a .x build is available. another fing i discovered is posting on vimeo and render with post process. never eard about this befor ... where could we fund some of them ? I'm not sure if there is much documentation on these features. Possibly in the manual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member michalis Posted September 7, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 7, 2011 Mantis bug reports 0000308 0000337 These two reports are solved! How? tools properties 0 depth doesn't exist, this maybe solved but to delete it before having a fixed new build for testing, isn't right. Decimated tri-mesh export from voxels still has problems, though improved. Non manifolds. IMHO this gonna be fixed via a global LC remesher. But, again, any smoothing operation can't be the solution. Even now, smoothing one or twice before exporting fixes this nonmaifolds issue. You know my ideas on this. Voxels are great but the only logical solution is to retopo-project subdivisions- work on a multi-res quad mesh. This means Zbrush or MB or even blender-sculpt. When a critic claims that 3dcoat is a swissarmy knife we may don't like it but may be true. A sculpting room in 3dcoat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Garrick Posted September 9, 2011 Member Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 where can I download these new Live Clay brush pack? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 9, 2011 Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 It's not available yet, when it is it will be in the first post of this thread (included in the latest 3DC update). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Garrick Posted September 9, 2011 Member Report Share Posted September 9, 2011 Thanks, I can't wait to try them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted September 23, 2011 Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 This next upcoming build must be something pretty amazing. I don't think it's ever been this long in between builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wailingmonkey Posted September 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 aren't they always? (I thought it was a little longer this time too, but if you check previous release times it looks like we've been on a month-to-month for a little bit now.....no complaints regarding this from me, as that's way better than every 6mo-1year, tho. Just tough to adjust-down after previous years of release 'habit' ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor artman Posted September 23, 2011 Contributor Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 This next upcoming build must be something pretty amazing. I don't think it's ever been this long in between builds. We are so used to weekly updates this is why time it feels slower when we dont have our sugar... But the truth is 3Dcoat development speed is just out of this world. Even if updates were monthly...it would still be faster than everything else out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Applink Developer haikalle Posted September 23, 2011 Applink Developer Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 I like this monthly update better than weekly ones. You need to download less data But I'm waiting a new update too. Hope it comes today... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Update will come really soon - this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member juanmanuel Posted September 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 Update will come really soon - this weekend. Yay! More 3d-coat goodness soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member b33nine Posted September 23, 2011 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 23, 2011 "fixed: drawing with E panel modes was hanging sometimes on very close look to model." This would make my life so much easier, very excited to give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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