fuzzzzzz
-
Posts
99 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Forums
Calendar
Gallery
Posts posted by fuzzzzzz
-
-
Hey Folks, Merry Christmas to you all !
-
1. i would like to store and easily access such of preset of colors for easy access, i don't especially need to store the gloos and the metallic values, but just the colors and named them, but i really don't want to use the pbr library.
So i think it would be nice to have a color swatch panel like in photoshop and store all the important colour tone that fits the Pbr chart made by sebastien Lagarde or whatever you want. n the state I can create an image and pickup the color from there, but honeslty that 's not really confortable to pickup the value from an image.
it could look like that with fast tooltip when the cursor hover the items :
http://puu.sh/dIYUh/6f1eaf9a11.png
2. why metallic and glossiness values are in percentage ?
it should be a value between 0 and 1 so we don't have to think the convertion that could make a lot of people confused about the exact value to use in percentage.
3. Agree with Rengto , without a good naming it will become harder to remember what does the pbr material presets withou to test them one after one.
-
thx Javis for the video
I am still not quiet about the workflow, think i will pass my way.
1. the use of both Metallic and Gloss terms, shorten immeditaly the consistency of the naming convention between reflectance and metalness workflow, from what i had already learn on the topic.
each game engine use a specific workflow, now each 3d painting app is using a specific workflow too.
Things went simple when it was about none pbr workflow at all, and now it had become entirely indigestible from my opinion.
Good luck to new starter guy, that start to learn UE4 unity and many 3d software at same time :x
Now Technically speaking, and for my own work, I do need these color id maps (not especially to handle various types of material on the models i want to render in Ue4), but to create dynamic material within material editor in UE4. I need to apply Erosion, Aging, and weathering effects dynamically with this color map id.
how can i do that with the tools you show in the video ?
Can i export the final uv mask per layer ? so i could simply edit this one in PS and mount the others layers final uv mask into a RGBA texture file, so i could load that as masks, ready to use in UE4 to apply aging effects on them.
-
-
according to allegorithmic the specular map is not necessary all specular data are stored into the albedo( diffuse)
this way, quixel demo is wrong and the game texture tutorial is also completely wrong :/
-
as i have nothing special planned tonight, i just had done some test into substance designer
1. here i just have grab the same free and pbr ready material available here at game textures.com
this is a glossiness workflow in substance designer with the proper shader eneble in the 3d view
2. here is a metallic workflow but without specular layer :
that 's my own prefer setting gloss map is inverted and i apply a clamp to remove pure black and write value. (the specular is disable don't take care about these nodes
)
3. here it the same material that the previous graph but i had added the specular map that i blend it with the roughness map as it is done on UE4 quixel demo.
-
2
-
-
on the first image , i demonstrate that UE4 don't need specular map to trender correctly, this the Methodology employed by epic game devs, so this way you could plug your albedo into diffuse, metallic into Metallic, roughness already handle the specular effect, and the albedo provide the color of the specular effect.
This it the realistic demo and i used ue 4.5
Now i would like to share with you how unreal engine developper must to handle the pbr material from the reflectance workflow to get an acceptable rendering : ( source : Gametextures.com PBR material into UE4 )
Details :
metallic value are interpolated and i use some constants variables to define them.
masks are used to define the type of material roughness (read that RGB value has different grey value)
roughness is inverted with a One Minus node, then a clamp node is added to remove the pure black and the pure white ( note : values are a bit exagerated on the capture ^^)
I had recreated a pbr metalness material into substance deisgner, the problem is exactly the same than with UE4, specular is necessary to get acceptable specular reflection. you must to add the speuclar map !
UE4.6 is downloading, but i will download quixel demo again, but that i am sure the materials must to have a specular map plugged into the materials to get an acceptable rendering.
So now honestly, i will not use this METHODOLOGY, it seems that 3dcoat is going to the wrong direction, i want my specular to be defined directly into the roughness, this is for performance purpose, it can work with a very small level, but a level with thouhand of mesh and materials, that is just simply not acceptable, the additional time of work the workflow is goiing on with 3dcoat, would impact the artist, and how to say if with your final composition your level will not will look all false.
UE4 Shaders Constraints : when you create shaders with the material editor of UE4 is that we are limited in the number of instructions and the number of texture sample we can call per shader. multiply by the number of actor in your scene and your can ensure that it will reduced the perfrmance. it would be not a good idea to create material layer with such of tweaked shaders.
This is definatively the workflow i am looking for the resason mentionned below , cause it would simple increase the ratio the make cohabit correct material that use full metalness workflow, to cohabit with the retro ceonverted reflectance pbr shader.
An important detail that nobody should forget about pbr material , in game engine that support pbr technics, the Global illumination as a big impact on the rendering, that is somthing that you could take in charge.
For Andrew, if you need an UE4 user as beta tester, just ask
Edit : sorry the second screen was not correct but i had reuploaded the image.
-
2
-
-
Most of this discussion seams to be about game engines I'm assuming expert to animation programs like LightWave will still work normally as well?
i just hope that 3dcoat will provided to us three typeq of precomputed shader to work with the various methodology, old school, pbr metalness and pbr Reflectance.
just that it seem its will not be compatible with metalness workflow, for some reason that i would explain in the different post.
-
so finally the licence i bought with lightwave 8 bundle and eyeon fusion long year ago, now ressurect great news and thank for reporting here geo_n
-
hello Carlosan, i had just updated my signature on the forum so my twitter account is in it
to be honest twitter is great tool for lover and haters, but not to people with an argumentary ^^!
finally i took the time to answer :
-
a message from unreal engine developper to clarify the topic about gloss versus roughness :
The material model is based off of Disney's. I've had experience in the past with a physically based model that was DiffuseColor, SpecularColor, and Gloss. There is nothing more or less physical about it. It is just a different interface to the artist. In my experience there are things about it that are problematic that I intended to solve.
Gloss to some people isn't obvious in how it works. What does gloss mean? Although high gloss and low gloss are perfectly clear to me on more than one occasion there has been confusion or debate about which produces sharper or blurrier reflections. Roughness is clear to everyone. It is immediately understandable and clear as to what effect it has on light. The unfortunate thing is that it is opposite the intuitive intensity of specular reflectance. This means that roughness maps look inverted visually. For this reason some engines have gone with "smoothness" instead, which if I were to do it again I would strongly consider.
DiffuseColor and SpecularColor have a complex relationship that requires a great deal of artist training and is very error prone. Artists need to be taught that metals have black diffuse and colored specular, nonmetals have noncolored specular of about 4%. What is that in sRGB space? These sound simple but trust me, making sure the textures followed rules like this is a long and difficult process. Having the parameter Metallic is much simpler. Is this metallic, yes, no? Now there is nothing to learn or screw up except setting metallic to something not 0 or 1. The learning process with this material model I have seen go much better.
An additional advantage is storage savings. Materials can often assume constants and not require textures for Metallic or Specular. The GBuffer gains one channel by storing Metallic and Specular instead of SpecularColor.
There is a downside being that it disallows some nonphysical materials with diffuse and colored specular. Occasionally that can cause issues but most of the time this is a good thing.
There are many others going the metallic route, Frostbite and The Order come to mind. The Disney presentation made a really big splash. -
urf, i can't to edit my own posts :/
So I rephrase, just forget the previous message
i had never use marmotset and will probably never use the app.
when I create models and textures, its for game engine, not to shot a screen for my portfolio. this app can handle the two workflows,reflectance en metalness mixing them doesn't mean it will give me the right visual aspect into my game engine.
Quixel worked this way and i after I bought my own licence , it was finally for nothing and become simply useless, because all glossmap from megascan are simply wrong.
you can invert the map but , you woulkd also have to clamp (min< >max) the gray scale between two values, and with that, it will not become a correct roughness map.
fortunaly all this depend on the database from the one you grab the material definitions. it could be megascan, or the materials preset in substance painter, and now the stamp brushes in 3dcoat.
if the material are calibrate for reflectance wrokflow i would simply not use 3dcoat with my ue4 game project, but substance looks perfectly calibrated for that engine.
if we want a perfect calibration of 3dcoat material to work only with marmort and cryengine
instead of target the metal ness worflow that will be more widely use by gameengine than reflectance that is just sopported by marmot and cryengine.
metalness workflow will be compatible with more engine, ue4, marmot( as it has metalness workflow) frostbyte engine and surely more and more.
Seems like Unity5 pbr is a new approcach that are not reflectance or metalness workflow.
According to Wes on allegorithmic forum
Unity 5 will be using a Spec/Gloss workflow for Unity 5. It is a derivative of Disney GGX BRDF.
They will be using some different terminology as to try and help bridge the gap from traditional map creation to PBR. For instance, they are using smoothness instead of glossiness or roughness. I feel this is not the best approach in terms of keeping true to the naming conventions already used in PBR workflows, but its not technically wrong either. PBR is more of a methodology rather than a standard. The map creation principles are the same and this provides the ability for PBR content to be authored in a consistent manner. I would have liked to see Unity use the same conventions as UE4. -
i never use marmot set and will probably never use the app.
when i modeling and texture models its for game engine, not to shot a screen for my portfolio.
quixel worked this way and i after I bought my own licence , it was finally for nothing, so it seem that it will be the same with 3dcoat, if the roughtness is an invert gloss map i will for sure never use the pbr in 3dcoat.
the engine i target ie UE4, not marmot set.
-
To quote Andrew:
Most likely we will be painting with metalness and glossiness (inverted roughness channel), but it will be possible to export metalness/roughness or specularity/glossiness.
alsolutely wrong, but sure you can invert the gloss to use it as roughtness, but the result will be extremly different.
glossiness ≠ roughtness
and what make me the most confuse is that a screenshot of the shaer show two term that whould not cohabit together
or it metallic + roughtness
or it clossiness +specular color
it just can't to be metallic + gloss that has a none sense !
-
yeah, i suppose the same, but didnt saw a save/load button
so "in theory" this settings could be stored in brush presets too ? *
this will be a incredible and welcome step forward -and time saver, oc- :-)
* any info is welcome
seems like it is, but the question is why stamp tool ?
usually ddo and substance designer use the object tangent normal map to apply physics brush behavior on the model.
so i really don't understand the choice of Andrew to base his work on the stamp tool, to me if you when to aligned or apply dynamic brushes effects like wheather erosion, you need that object space normal map.
-
i was about to post the answer andrew gave me, but thx carlossan you had been faster
i agree with beatkitano, this must to be merge into just one panel.
but i think that andrew with refont this panel and the UI as it make more sense to regroup all those layer stuff on the same place. but it 's cosmectic detail that would logically be achieved when the viewport renderer and the layer system will be enought stable to refont the app with all this new feature.
The alignment of the texture types on the left, and the options on the left side, make me think that "specular" has been renamed into "gloss".
something that i not quiet about is the specular /gloss channel, that can always be use on non pbr game engine, and because it can be use on the shader to make some area looks wet in additional of the metalness workflow.
ont the very top of the shader settings we would have to choose the workflow we want to work with, it should look like that :
old style :
diffuse,height, specular
metalness :
albedo,height,metallic,roughness with the possibility to add a specular channel for in special cases you need that)
reflectance :
albedo, height, gloss, specular_color
here you force people to use the best practice, and you must to paint the metal color onto this type of textures map you would output when you are done.
prevent user to use the color onto the albedo if you have a specular color map linked with that shader type.
also that would be perfect if we could add additional textures types like AO, opacity, emisive, mat_id, but also bake AO and curvature map.
we just need to define if this output will be RGB, RGBA or only grayscale texture. 3d coat can or ca
But anyway, the screenshot demonstrates that Andrew is not working only on the pbr rendering, but shadering improvement.
I keep my fingers crossed and I strongly hope for the next stable build why not the version 4.5, that could be shipped with a full revisions of the UI fondamentals, adding a main outline from the one you could switch transparently from any the the current room system.
it could be a render pass layer, so the viewport display the proper stuff into the viewport.
if you select a retopo mesh you acces the proper tool on the ui.
The brushes options panel should also be revised, i just want that menu displayed when you hit the spacebar to fit my needs, cause in that current state, it's a tool that i never use.
-
2
-
-
the AA look really good, not sure where this has been rendered, from render room or is only real time, but it seem that andrew already anwsered here :
-
some more :
dirt plastic ( full size )
-
some more from Andrew on TW
More one-click filled materials :
Dirt support via AO condition :
-
3
-
-
thx for sharing this screen capture Andrew.
it makes me think that it would be nice to have a post process effect that improve the antialiasing.
-
Still working over PBR. Already done it for all paint methods (mv, ppp. prtex, vertex). What is rest - baking + export + better materials
It is completely commpartible wit Marmoset toolbag 2-
1
-
-
Polygoon, that menu in your pictures, where can I find it? First I though it's in the export options, but it isn't.
check the preferences
-
There is two challenges for andrew
Imaging that andrew start to develop the metalness workflow instead of the reflectance one.
metalness : metallic color are stored on the albedo map
reflectance : metallic color are stored on the specular color map
how to swap those data , maybe directly separate all this and configure the output to fit metalness or reflectance workfow?
the second challenge:
Roughness and Glossiness are not exactly identique
the purpose of the pbr rendring is about the reproduce a material and all the subtleties so when you set your material into ue4 using a roughness map or a glossiness map with cryengine, the the material shoudl have "the same" appearence. but that would not be the case, we can invert the grayscaled map but that would not give the proper rendering into one of the two engine i d mentionned.
Sure this is the artist that will be judge to how the roughmap or the glossmap should be painted.
But that was something important to mention nor allegorithimic neither than quixel provide a converter, it seems that is more about what the artist consider as aesthetic details.
Malo : UE4 use a post process to handle how the light should affect the final render. but alos ue4 is shipped with th full source code so its easy to learn from the source how they made it.
-
i was really excited to read that
thx for quoting my tweet Carlosan ( nice new avatar hehe)
V4.5 BETA (experimental)
in New Releases, Bugs Reports & Development Discussion
Posted
how i could have forget that ;x
thx artman
well great but without the possibility to real the name of the items make it just impossible to determane which item corresponds to what type of materials.
http://puu.sh/dJ3oi/915ed53a07.png