Henry Townshend

Hello! I find it odd that this is a "per session" based setting, as user preference regarding rotation behavior won't likely change between sessions. Already thought about giving it a shortcut, but it would be a waste of a shortcut imo. Plus you have to think about it at the beginning of each new session, or get reminded because you suddenly realize your preferred rot method is not set, yet, again. I think it should be a general, global setting, just as you can do it in Blender Preferences. Not a huge deal, but kind of unnecessary having to set this as a user for each new session.

Today I worked on the file again, and the lags disappeared. I have a suspicion now: I do test bakes occasionally during retopo to foresee how my normals are gonna look (Loving that feature in 3D Coat, it is so quick, just amazing). I noticed that at some point, I deleted my layers in paint room and did not do any bakes anymore. But still, even when I do a test bake now, I have no delays. This is strange. I am starting to think the issue might be caused by something external, not sure. I am on windows 11. Here is the current file on which the lagging just disappeared: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2r7aqn09fz3cntj/et_retopo_124.3b?dl=0

Thanks! I tried it with this option, however, it is slowing down opposed to using the applink for some reason, becoming unworkable, even with my mesh only being 1.2 mio. This option introduces problems I did not have before. The scale of the model gets altered when using this option as opposed to using applink, which would be not a huge deal, but, it gets really small inside 3D Coat and it seems that the smaller my brush size is in this mode, which is needed cause the model being so small, the slower the tools, for instance drawing curve or smart retopo gets really slow and taxing, and you can feel the tools are not meant to work at such small scale. When using applink, I have zero problems with speed nor scale. All is working at light speed. The same when I use the first option "Import Reference Mesh up to 2-4 million", or going over "File->Import for Vertex Painting/Reference". The speed is incredible fast using these modes, a pure joy to work with. But not when using the "huge reference mesh option". This "Huge Reference" options slows down the entire experience, not was I was used to. It is also much more taxing on the CPU. I have much lower, next to non tax on CPU using the other import modes. Like stated, my only problem arose with switching tools once I reach a certain amount of tris, as described above. It is not about any viewport performance hit caused by mesh density. That is not the problem. It's gotta be something else that sneaks in in later stages of retopo, when there are more polygroups and faces present. Maybe you could try to send the devs my file for inspection to check if they can reproduce? At this point don't think it has something to do with setup or choosing import options. It would be so nice without tool switching lags. I meanwhile started retopo on other meshes, the problem is not present when you start retopo. It only happened once I reached a certain level of finish, like when my retopo mesh was at around 12k tris. The performance otherwise was no problem, blazingly fast, only the lags between tool switching occuring was the problem.

Hey, thx for the swift reply. I go via applink. I bring my model from zbrush to Blender first via GoB addon (inofficial Blender Zbrush bridge, works well). I then go to the 3D Coat applink addon in Blender, and choose "Reference Mesh" and hit "Send" (works well). I have opened 3D Coat in the Background already before doing that. So not using the start menu, jus opened with an empty scene. The model then gets imported into 3D Coat, showing up as paint object. Is there some misstep in this process? Or maybe applink? I love applink, the send back forth from/to blender is flawless for me. Would like to keep this workflow. But I will certainly try the "import heavy meshes". But, I usually decimate my sculpts for retopo, so I think it might not should be the cause of the problem, as they are not really "heavy". I started this file at the beginning with the full 17 mio tris sculpture though. It worked without flaws. At some point where the tool switch lagging started, I replaced the geo with a decimated version, but the behaviour did not change. I am thinking maybe it has to do with this, that somehow using the 17mio at first left its marks for some odd reason, even though it got replaced later. Otherwise the program runs quick and snappy, no issues regarding performance at all. On the contrary, even with the 17mio refence in it did not break a swaet in terms of viewport performance. The only thing that happens is the tool switching lag. Otherwise its fluid as butter.

Forgot to mention: I use shortcuts for almost every tool (mostly a combination of "Alt+some number"). Not sure if it has something to do with it. I experience the same when I just select the tools via the "SPACEBAR" menu though.

Hey, I read this was something that happened in past 3D Coat versions and was supposed to be fixed in some later update in v 4.x , but it happens to me now during retopo. First, as there was only like 1k or 2k or even 4k faces, everything worked fine. But when I got around 7k, now am at 12k faces, quickly switching between tools sometimes lags for a few seconds. It happens seemingly randomly ,at least for me, sometimes everything goes quick, but then, occasionally when I switch for instance to "Add/Split" or "Delete Edges" tool, it hags a bit until it has switched. Not sure whats causing this, this is my first time doing a full character retopo in 3D Coat. I remember int he past that happened to me also during painting in paint room, when I have had a lot of alphas in my brushes folders. The more alphas I had there, the slower it was to switch tools. But there, it was at least predictable and happened every time. So I got rid of the problem by keeping number of alphas reasonable. Not sure if this is related somehow or helps. I would love to see this resolved, as I fell deeply in love with 3D Coats retopo room, it is a dream come true. The occasional lag is a bit distracting though. Not sure if maybe also I am doing something that's causing this, but wouldn't know what really. Here is the file for investigation. You notice when you switch for instance after a longer time of working with one tool, it can happen. I can not see any predictable pattern unfortunately. https://www.dropbox.com/s/lo1ugq43c07cwca/et_retopo_119.3b?dl=0

Ah thanks! Thats good to know. Makes sense for Smart Material usage. I mean an auto assignment of the maps, like in Substance Painter, which makes the maps available from within the project, would be even better. I was specifically looking for painting though, not necessaraly applying Smart Materials. But now as you say it... ok, that is also super poweful. You can basically procedurally texture your sculpt also during vertex painting. Another incredible opportunity, I just realize...

Unfortunately, I was too early, no luck. This does not prevent the pop up of this menu in the retopo room. Disable this option, then go to retopo, click rmb. It will still pop up. Not so often and severly when using tablet, but the behavior has not changed.

Awesome! Thanks! I would never expect this to disable it also in Retopo room as well, as it explicitly states "Sculpt Room".

That's a great way to get the preview of the conditions!!! Great! thx ! Didn't think of that. You could also do it with a solid color instead of freeze and then simply undo, jus the way you do in ZBrush with settign up mask by options. Really like this system with the 3 parameters "Cavity width", "degree" and "contrast". I meanwhile imported a model via file menu instead of the starting dialogue, not sure why that would give you different results for the import, but it somewhat does I think. I would advice anyone who reads this against directly using FBX exported from ZBrush, as Carlosan said, their scale is super tiny. But this won't show when importing via start screen -> Vertex Paint. But only when you go over the menu it seems. I think that these are seemingly not delivering the same looks in regards of scaling, can potentially confuse users. For me it worked when I put my model to a reasonable scale in Blender first, which most of the time scaling from "0.01" which is the scale coming from ZBrush FBX, to "1" in Blender, which gave me the measurments in meters the model was build with in mind (1,4m). When then bringing it ouf of Blender to 3D Coat via FBX, baking generally seems to work as expected. The AO looks terrific now: Even though I have some problems when baking the head, which I don't know where it could come from right now: I think I will figure it out from here. Thanks much for the support! Eager and excited to do some full PBR vertex painting in 3D Coat in future! Amazing what this program offers

Thx again @Carlosan I am aware of the freezing being equivalent to mask in ZBrush. But, can you also "freeze by Cavity" or "freeze by peaks and valleys" or "freeze by AO"? IYKWIM? For these, I thought I need to use the conditions menu "more an concave" and "more on convex", right? I thought 3D Coat works differently, by storing bakes into vertex color layers to drive that conditions, instead of using masking(freezing). How does freezing come into play with this in 3D Coat? I would also love to know if we could visuslize the condition tweaks (cavity width, contrast) in the viewport, jus as we can visualize our "mask by" mask intensity levels in ZBrush. I feel very comfi Polypainting in ZBrush, but the option to fully PBR paint on sculpts in 3D Coat is jus insane and tempting to work with it. I also like the renderer. The option to bake it down to several maps when done or transfer it to Blender nodes via applink is the sweet cherry on top. Sadly currently, for me, I am not really getting it to function as I expected, probably I am doing something wrong. I I think it sould be possible to have a similar experience to ZBrush painting, if you know how.

Thank you! Does not really help unfortunatley, as I already know how to bake Cav and AO for Smart Material usage. What I struggle with is getting decent results with them when Vertex Painting, using the "Conditions", to get something similar to what I have in ZBrush using various "Mask by" options.

+1 These options can all already be accessed via the wonderful SPACEBAR menu, no need to have it popping up and interrupt workflow. @Andrew Shpagin I just ping you here cause why write private emails instead of discussions in official forum? Would be nice if we could have the possibility to disable it. I love 3D Coat Retopo deeply. This menu however occasionally drags me out of the flow, too. @Evyatar Barok That's some crazy fantastic art you got there on your Artstation!

Any idea also maybe how I could use the conditions for fine grain masking? Like only painting the indents of pores? I have tried with various conditions and different "Degree", "Contrast" and "Cavity Width" settings. All giving me broader results without fine grain. Does this have to do with the above problem that my map is not fine grained enough? Or even the sculpt itself... I assume.... My Curvature Map seems to generally include these fine details though it seems, here is a screenshot from flat shaded view with active Cavity layer: I also noticed that everything I paint comes out with sharp pixelated edges. Also a result of the curvature map not being fine enough? Or would there be a way to get smoother results ? :

@Carlosan I know it is recommended now to use the RGB Curvature, right? But I wonder how you got that crisp greyscale curvature. I tried the several options: "Local Curvature" and "Light Based" Curvature, but those are not so high frequency as yours. It looks like this for some reason with local curvature, which makes sense, as its the same as with local RGB jus without the colors. Looks completely different from yours though. Have you used some special settings, gamma correction maybe ?

Wow! Thanks a lot you two for looking into it! Curvature map looks good. Thanks @alexn007! Glad you like it. I am a bit surprised though, as for me, when I import it over via "Startup Screen->Vertex Painting", the model scale relation to the grid is the exact same as in your second picture, where you scaled up by a 1000%. When I import over menu "File -> Import -> Import for Sculpt/Vertex Painting" , my mesh seems still the appropriate size, at least the grid looks the same as in your second shot @Carlosan: Same when imported via Applink from Blender. I vaguely remember that I had the situation that the model was so small a few times in between tries. Now I struggle to reproduce the model being so small on import. It seems that I may lack some basic understanding on how to appropriately import models? However, I now went to sculpting room, and set my scene scale, which was at some number like 2226 or something, to "1" , and now I am able to bake again. But I can not for the life of me figure out anymore how you get the model to be so small on import :P. I guess that might be similar top what you did @Carlosan. My Unit Scale in preferences is set to meter. I wonder why the scene scale gets off, though. P.S.: Would you guys know of any way to visualize these conditions? It seems you have to just try? Or can one preview them somehow inside the viewport prior to painting? The baked curvature does not get affected by it it seems:

And as mentioned, the problem is not existing when I use one of 3D Coats starter base meshes from the menu. It seems internal data does not have this problem. Until now, I could not get any externally created sculpt to work with baked AO and Curvature. Be it imported as FBX or OBJ. All behave the same for me.

Ah one thing I forgot to add: The model is already polypainted in ZBrush, so I bring those Vertex Colors in on import into Coat, which works great and it inserts it as new layer. Not sure if that could maybe have anything to do with the problem.

Thanks for the replies guys! @alexn007 Unfortunatley, updating to 2022.25 did not solve the problem for me. @Carlosan Of course: When using this model here that I exported via FBX export from ZBrush, when I bake AO its super gray'ish, not sure if it looks correct. When baking Curvature, the result is simply just black: https://www.dropbox.com/s/bevx3aox6abh4fe/BabyET_2022_001_forCoat.fbx?dl=0 Here are the steps: And this below is the result after the curvature baked, obviously not including any curvature data: The AO bake result also seems too subtle for me, not what I expect usually from Coat. I mean its always a bit grayish, but there seems to be missing punsh: Another idea: Could this have to do with scale discrepancies? I will maybe try to import into Blender first and then send via 3D Coat Appllink, will see if that makes any difference. Maybe this is some incompatibility when directly importing FBX from ZBrush'S FBX exporter plugin. I am supposed to bake via "Textures->Caclulate Curvature" and "Caclulate Occlusion", even for Vertex Paint, correct?

Could this have to do with externally brought in meshes? It works with meshes created inside 3D Coat, but not with any I bring in, using FBX. If so, any idea why this happens and how I could make it work?

Hello, I am trying to get conditions to work for vertex painting. However, whenever I calculate Curvature or AO, the maps don't come out as expected. The AO is way to weak and the Curvature just stays black. Does it rely on UVs even though jus wanna I vertex paint? I would really love to vertex paint in 3D Coat but it is a bit sobering without masking conditions. I guess it is supposed to work, as it asks me specifically to bake those maps when I select conditions (at the top , where it defaults to "Always") . I am trying to get similar painting feel to "Automask" by Cavity in ZBrush and I am a bit surprised that it says you need to bake those maps, as with vertex painting, there are of course no UVs. Would appreciate any help.

Hello, first of all my deepest sympathies and props to the developers for keeping up the development pace of 3D Coat! I hope you are all safe and sound. Your dedication and love put into the program is highly appreciated by your users. I would like to ask if there is any news on this. An ACES viewport, like recently also added to Substance Painter, is something very useful in modern texturing tools. It helps to much better evaluate the final outcome in a game engine or renderer that uses ACES. A lot of game makers and film makers use ACES, it is a color standard. Currently there seems no way for the 3D Coat painting viewport to match ACES. I saw that there is an ACES node already in the shader editor, so I assume some work on this is already done.Would it be possible to add ACES tone mapping to the texture painting viewport as well? If it is possible to enable it for rendering, it should theortically also be possible to enable it during texturing, right? It could be added as a dropdown just like in Substance Painter: It would be a very useful if not crucial addition, as most other modern texturing tools have it now, namely Substance Painter and Marmoset Toolbag 4. Its much harder to evaluate your textures for your target using ACES without this.