MrMamurk
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It is interesting to read here even these "gun-munition" conversations. It seems we've got another answer to the question WHY (I take into account Polyxo's reply about USA's weapon-lobby). A cult of violence is developed in order to promote sales of real guns. After all those blockbusters and 3D-games... Isn't it looks good to buy real gun just exactly like "a superhero in the film" had? The problem is that for a lot of influent people the guns are their business, and the more people adore guns and murder of aliens - the better. Most of the people playing violent games do not really want to kill someone with a gun, but folks are ready to discuss munition and riffles, even ready to buy a gun and keep it in the house. It seems we have found in the discussion a few real and very serious reasons. btw. I wish all of you happy 2013! I wish everyone to find the truth, sincerety, reciprocity. I wish you to get the manifestation of everything what you are dreamed of, or what you've been searching for. Let your love be always mutual in your life. Let your passions find a way to be satisfied.
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Gravin, my applauses for your arguments in debates. You are maybe the only one person here who is trying to follow the path of objectivity, relying on the facts but not on personal position. It is not that I declined of my point because of your arguments, and it is not that I am going to argue with you. But I would like to thank you just as I thank other people who are involved in this discussion. Garagarape, Gravin, Greg, J0linar, AbnRanger, Tony Nemo, Michalis, Carlosa, BeatKitano... Thank you all, really!!! Sorry, sometimes my messages may sound weird, English is foreign for me, I can't think in English as good as on my native Russian... Anyway, it seems that you understand me, it is enough. (I use a translator to check before posting, whether Google translator is able to translate my English text back to the Russian. And if the translator can't "understand" me, I am looking for mistakes.) Please, everyone! In addition to your points and arguments, I would like to gather yours answers for a question: what do you feel when seeing a stuff similar to the examples in the 1st post (especially http://www .youtube . com/watch?v=2bP9d9JGdxg and evil 3D-sculptures)? This question is more actual for those who didn't mentioned this in his messages before. Let's collect here the subjective responses. Please, give more detailed feedback, not one-two words. How you feel before and after the viewing, what do you think afterward, how the artwork changes your state of mind, do you feel relaxed or became tense, how long do you experience any emotions and so on.
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Hey, folks... Let's try to listen to each other. Really, I can't see a contradiction here. We can be arguing all night, eventually we will speak about the Stone Age or Ku Klux Klan. The fact that violence left strong footprints on the road of human history doesn't prove that imagination and visual representation of the violence doesn't play the role in the decisions. We can easily see that the visual representation of a murder has a different impact on people: some people became less sensitive and grow more tolerant to the sight of blood, guns, someone's fear and pain; some people eventually lose their ability to empathize, became emotionally indifferent to everything they see (whether it is a movie or real scene); other people feel depressed and lose their inspiration (as I am). And really, all described impacts are bad in my opinion. Some artists became indifferent to what they are working on; players became indifferent to what they are playing, people became indifferent to each other... It is bad. I think it is bad. And it is clear that the culture educates us, whether it is a game or book; whether the educational aspect is implied or not. Anyway, my opinion is not intended to be understood as ultimate truth. If I am saying that something should or should not be depicted in some manner - it is my own decision, I am not forcing anyone to agree with me. But the HUGE interest to this thread is a sign for me that my thoughts and thoughts of those people who to some degree agree with me really has the right to exist. Nope. I disagree. To kill or not to kill (forgive me Shakespeare) - it is a matter of the more or less conscious decision. And it strongly depends on the ability and knowledge to solve the problems another way. When people don't know how to overcome their troubles - only then the violence comes to the fore.
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I am using bold text to make accent on some sentence within the big message. I think it is easier to perceive an idea with accentuations than plain text. I am not an art policeman, forget about that. I am questioning, I do not forbid. Anyone is free in his creativity, but I am also free to have my opinion and discuss something. If I dislike something, it doesn't mean that I should shut up. It also doesn't mean that I force someone to stop sculpting and drawing. There is an art, and there is an opinion. Another artist - another art. Another spectator - another opinion.
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Greg, you haven't gone off topic with your message. Really, it is very important to understand that visual art (as painting, as films, as games, as everything what artists and producers make) has an impact on the society. It is common statement to say that Soviet art and culture was just a "propaganda". But let me explain a little bit. Soviet culture was always and everywhere intended to teach people: starting from animations for children and up to newspaper messages and advertizing. And at that time everyone had to know how to learn something for the sake of Soviet ideals. It was necessary to have a critical mind! (At least to criticize the Capitalism, lol). There was a HUGE press of soviet ideological critique on every soviet citizen. And there was not just an idea of only-one-Red-Soviet-Party, but also the ideas of friendship, justice, competence, self-discipline, physical culture, sport and so on. In Soviet culture there was a cult of sublime work and workers instead of entertainment. Soviet citizens were most reading people on the Earth, it is true. It is still possible in Russia or post-soviet countries to find here and there the shelves with a lot of literature, when you come as a guest to someone's home. Even soviet science-fiction books are much more than just an entertainment, there are thousands of pages where you can't find even one terrible monster or murder. But the dream had died in 1991, and since that time there is no Motherland, no ideology, no criticism, no sublime work, just a capitalism in it's worst meaning. Today everything is vice versa, all about entertainment, and everything is allowed for the sake of sales: sеx, drugs, murder, monsters, crazy aliens in culture are produced just to entertain people. And culture nowadays has no intention to teach you how to live or establish any rules other than criminal code. But! Who cares that there is a psychological trap? Children have no critical mind. Children take the strategies of behavior of EVERY hero in the films or games. Children repeat everything they see. And furthermore, critical mind is not developing in the realm of entertainment and consumption. There are corporations, which are NOT interested in people, who are smart and critical (nothing personal, just a business, right?). So there is also a lot of adult people with no critical mind. So... As you, Greg, have said before: "We eat what we're fed." Even if it is the seeds of hatred.
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What I am trying to say is not that we need to remove the swastika from the tanks with "quite interesting forms", but not to apply entertainment approach to the violence and ESPECIALLY to the symbols of crime. The example with fylfot does mean for me that concept artists are not quite conscious about what they are doing and which consequences may appear later. Great creativity, when being applied onto the theme, may change it's meaning (even up to the opposite), so we may find one day that people make their decisions because of cultural myths but not because of historical truth. I am not against the depictions of war or tanks, I am ready sometimes to see the films or games about war. But it should be the truth. The violence should not be depicted in the manner to entertain people. If there is a pain and unjustice, an artist shouldn't make an image of that full of "interesting shapes" and "pleasing color scheme". That is the right question. Why someone is ready to pay for the development of nicely designed distortions and violence? And why does people ready to buy films and games about that.
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Artman, I am glad. I thought we somehow don't understand each other, but happily it's not the case. And yes, regardless of your recent friendly advice, my hard-drive is already full of different images. I have a pick of paintings of great masters in ultra-high resolution, I have a digital collection of works by russian artists (past and present), I have even a huge amount of unsorted photos from Flickr which I am trying to analyse in terms of texture, color and composition (not going to break someone's copyright with derivative works and not using the photos as the direct references for drawing, but I am doing my research of nature and beauty notwithstanding of copyright permission)... I am exploring Art in all it's diversity, I have quite a big collection of the links to art galleries and online resources... I enjoy Norman Rockwell's artworks or landscapes by Thomas Moran. I really like the art of Theo Prins or Raphael Lacoste. Sometimes I find interesting digital sculptures too, for example the portraits by Steffen Unger (http://polyphobia3d.deviantart.com/). Carlosa, I don't know. It was maybe just a cry of the soul. This thread had started spontaneously. I am really tired of constantly facing something repulsive and dark. Psmith, thank you. I don't care to the attempts to silence me, it is some kind of trend, or maybe people sometimes are tired of reading and thinking. I've been twice banned because of my personal opinion at one quite big russian forum dedicated to the academic tradition in art. Because my point of view is different as from CG-industry mainstream, so from academic tradition. Know what? They banned me when they started to get real answers to one kid's question: «Why an oil painting portrait is better than photograph», lol. Moderator (one guy who respects "modern art" very much) have been unexpectedly infuriated with my arguments such as "texture and tactile expression of the painting is more friendly for human because the painting is hand-made; size of canvas is much larger than mere photograph and at the same time the artwork is perceived as something organic; artist performs continuous observation while painting; an artist's hand movements are recorded in the sequence of paint strokes" and so on. ))) p.s. I write here also because it is a really good practice for me to learn English. p.p.s. Sorry for "a lot of text", it's really time for me to calm down a little bit at least today. I already wrote a lot, don't want to give a feeling that I am here just to express myself and not to let anyone else to tell something, lol )))
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I don't think about everyone here as about nazis/deformity adorers. The form of my questions shouldn't be taken wrong. Of course I am questioning in the manner of me standing in front of a lot of artists, who make something that I simply don't understand. And I am searching for an answer from those who IS working like what I am talking about. But up to this moment it seems no one except you and Artman had taken it as a personal offence, because first, there is nothing offensive in my question, and second - somehow no one is getting my questions as a personal complaint. You should speak from yourself, not trying to make an illusion that a lot of people had given you the right to voice their opinion. So, it would be good to have your personal opinion on the topic expressed here, especially if you named me "narrow-minded" and "troll". Why do you like dark-creepy-bloody stuff (if you like), what you dislike, why you think my questions are wrong and so on. Of course I could do my own art. And I am working on it, even if I don't want to show the sketches or paintings on a CG-related site or simply find them not ready for uploading somewhere. The idea behind the image is VERY difficult part of creativity for me, and I personally don't want to show people pure excercises. The questions here are not because of my will to miss the time in the world-wide-web. I am trying to better understand my own taste and artistic decisions. I would like to understand why people adore something that I find wrong. Why do I find it wrong? Am I only one who has such a distaste of monsters, imaginary weapon, trolls and freaks? And so on.
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I am not speaking about traditional sculpture, btw. I talk about the meaning and ideas behind the CG industry, both gaming and film-making. Maybe I should be waiting and sitting calm while Feng Zhu has already started to play with fylfot and the visual "style" of nazism? Attention, people! Wake up! What you are doing as Creators? Next images are made by Feng Zhu (I don't have any copyright on them or anything, I post them here because they correspond the discussion). You can find them here: http://fengzhudesign.com/gallery_page_09.htm My grandfather was fighting against the nazism. Nazism is NOT a game or entertainment! The weapons of nazism has NOT to be understood as an entertainment and the symbols of nazism should NOT be included into the entertainment! I guess someone already wants to hide the history behind modern myths within the mass-culture.
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What?! I am the troll who enflames the forum in the "offtopic" section, lol. ))) Actually the theme became "hot" without my will to do that. How can I be responsible for the fact that so many people have gathered in this particular thread AFTER the topic had been started... At least, I am the topic starter, not someone else, so how it is possible to think that I am a troll? People answer here and I am thankfull for that, I find it really promising, I didn't expected actually that my question can have such a resonance. It is such a honor for me to get the answers even from "someone with three quarters of a century under (his) belt" (Tony Nemo, I am young but I really appreciate your messages, thank you). Someone is trying to change the theme of this discussion. I am not going to point my finger at that user, but it seems THAT user IS the real troll here, lol. ))) Hey, dude, don't be shy, I am ready to read ANY ideas and statements which are corresponding the thread. So, lets go further into the desired discussion or let's stop speaking at all. I am not forcing anyone to speak here because of my terrible questions or because of my emotions or problems or whatsoever. ))) As Javis said: A business, yes - it is the other reason why artists are ready to put their talent into the sculpting of the distortions and violence. They learn anatomy... in order to paint and sculpt the monsters believable, instead of to understand and judge the life surrounding us. It is because someone is ready to pay for this. Someone who has the money is hiring talented people and gives them a task: to make more distortions, to make more murders, design unimaginable weapons and so on. Why? Why we cant have the games and entertainments where it is necessary to share resources instead of fighting for them? Why we can't have the games where it is necessary to help other races instead of fighting for the Ultimate Intergalactic Power? Why employers within the CG-industry world or within the visual effects companies are not investing in ideas that can make a world a better place? Why we always need a bright replacement of terrible reality instead of the solutions and strategies for a better life? Why artists have to demonize and simplify the problems instead of exploring the roots of issues, thus giving people better understanding? Why the artistic idea always needs to be in the tiny space of color scheme or edge loops? Too much questions, you may think. Thats right. It is too much even for me. I still can't get any clue, why it is necessary to put the talent and brilliant artistic expression into the false ideas.
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I don't think that 3D should or should not be used somehow. I just would like to have clear understanding of this particular cultural trend and of the reasons which drive thousands of artists in the direction of gloomy, violent or creepy stuff. And why does people appreciate that stuff. I like all the answers that we got here. It is really interesting, really helps to became conscious with my own decisions. I guess that there is something more. Something that is behind the images, some context that SURROUNDS the artworks, but even approximately is not expressed in them. Very often we respect the artworks even not because of their execution or drama, but because of spontaneous emotions and unconscious associations... It is the invisible bridge between an artwork and viewer, and artist usually has not any relation to this bridge! A spectator not only perceives an artwork, but also compares it to his own living experience. And the perception has strong roots in the childhood and memory. Some kind of reflex to dive into feelings which were experienced in the past thru the particular sensitive stimul. As an example a movie can bring the memories of the people with which we were seeing the movie before, thus giving the emotions that director of the film has not foreseen at all. It may be a horror movie or harsh documentary, but because of the personal expirience of a spectator it has much more meaning.
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It is pleasure to see here VERY interesting and smart answers. Thank you for everyone involved in the discussion! Please do not hesitate to correct me if I am wrong with sentences, I learn English by myself. Artman, I understand the entertainments which imply adrenaline, real action and real movement. And I think it is a little bit incorrect to compare the visuals and park of the attractions, also it is incorrect to compare them both with a theater. But does your answer mean that people perceive the design instead of the message? Do you really able to appreciate the representation of ANY idea only because it is... designed well? It reminds me a behavior of moth flying into fire Greg, thank you for your frankness. I am not going to blame someone or go deep into geopolitics, I just would like to give you some feedback. You could agree that USA now is in much worse condition than before the fall of Soviet Union. Having the biggest army and being the most advanced in many ways, it still fears of someone. Know what? It's not even funny for me when Romney, the potential president of USA calls Russia the USA's enemy #1. So nothing have changed in the minds of those people who rule the world. But it somehow doesn't mean for me that I need to hate americans or afraid of USA. Actually the fall of Soviet Union already killed more people than the difficulties of the cold war. More than 20 millions of soviet people have died in ten years after the betrayal of country's leaders and especially Gorbachev (who is advertising chips nowadays and celebrates his birthdays in London) because people have lost their jobs, families, money, realty; many died because of alcoholism and depression. Also if tomorrow USA will not overcome it's problems (absolutely surrealistic financial debt and absolutely surreal ambitions too), I am afraid there will be even more deaths and not only in America. It is worse of all when we have an armed guy who fears everything and tries to depress everyone else because of his own debts, or when one nation or country is trying to subordinate all others... It's all about fear. You can see that the fear is mostly produced with the mass culture, not because of real issues. The media replaces the reality. People in USA beleive in what they see on a TV (the funny part is that in post-soviet countries people do not beleive even if they see the truth on TV, lol). Borat became the symbol of post-soviet Kazakhstan, but it's a very big hoax which is also very offensive for more than 120 nationalities living peacefully in stable Kazakhstan (I know a lot of people in Kazakhstan personally, some are christians, some are muslims, some are laical, but everyone respects another).
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Come on, Artman. I feel that my post has insulted you. But wouldn't it be good to have an answer to the question WHY? Why people and artists have such an obsession with fantastic murders? And I would like to stress the word "fantastic". Because real murder and real battle is something absolutely different than those shiny raytraced vihicles and super-detailed grungy atmospheric-occlusion renderings with exo sceletons and blaster stuff. Even different than the stories about dragons and hobbits. If you don't like hugs and if you think that the love is something simple and "girlish, childish, boring" (I guess you think something like that because your bright expressions are supported by the word "whining") - it is OK as long as you feel comfortable within the realm of fake valuables. So WHY you like fantastic worlds and dislike hugs?
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Carlosa! The influence of real phenomenons doesn't mean that an artwork can't be something exceptional and eternal. Even the works of the great masters were somehow influenced by the reality and furthermore by the works of other Masters. I wish we could influence the reality thru the Art and expression. Maybe we could use artistic concepts to find the new direction for evolution of humanity?
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There is a bunch of camera controls in upper right corner of the screen, when you are in the 3D-Coat. There are controls of viewport lighting (shadows direction, light brightness), field of view (what you are asking about), also the switch between perspective and parallel view and so on.