tokikake
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Posts posted by tokikake
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@haikare I know why it seems somehow strange, to generate morph (edit in 3d coat and return it as shape key for mesh in blender) .
and As you said I usually make shape keys in blender. (even though 3d coat retopo room edit is robust, I prefer edit in blender to make morph)
The main reason is, , I usually render character which already made in blender. (many shape key to change shape, with ctrl to expression which change facial bones) of course I like to make simple props and texture with 3d coat from scratch too,,
so lets think,, now I have one already made character. then plan to make some detail musculian texture and shape for the character.
Then I export mesh to 3d coat, of course if I sculpt detail only, I need not edit mesh. (or work only in paint room), but eg I happend to add some muscle by sculpt in voxel room, then retopo mesh (which imported from blender) need to follow current musculian shape. then I can bake clean normal.
To use this normal map , of course I need to apply the normal map for the mesh which I edit in retopo room (auto snap etc). the normal map can not ift shape in blender any more. Then If I return it to blender as new mesh,,, ( overwrite mesh ) it is destructive work flow.
I prefer "my edit about mesh in 3d coat" to keep as shape key, not hope to overwrite my character mesh in blender...
Then when I hope to change my character as muscular, I can use shape key + baked normal map. with keep all other morphs and texture sets.
Of course if I really hard edit,, it never pose well untill I adjust weight map again,, but to add some detail muscle,, I need to edit retopo mesh too.
then I hope to keep it as new shape for character... without overwrite original...
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Sorry I reply too late,, (I tried to test one by one, but wait if there will be up-date,) and just say thanks Emi and Riggard yours guide and teach me a lot to take your time. I need to learn more and more about these things.
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As addtionary infomation, what I can confrim is,, when import mesh as FBX to 3d coat.it keep vertex order. (so I can edit in 3d coat, then return it as shape key (aka morph) for mesh (in blender) so 3d coat FBX importer can keep vertex order.What I feel problem ,, when export from 3d coat, and compare obj and FBX (which just use 3d coat exporter from paint room). then try to generate shape key.FBX version show same problem what I up-loaded pic before. (s mesh simply broken when apply as morph, but vertex count keep same, so blender at least generate shape key I confrim), OBJ version do not show problem. (generate clean morph shape which I edit in 3d coat) that means, 3d coat FBX exproter still remain some problem I feel,,I test again, with same mesh ^^; I do not know why It not work before, but now I can see clean morph transfered.
So I seems mistake,, and current 3d coat FBX exporter keep vertex order, and generate morph. (I may use wrong FBX mesh to import, I afraid)
then I just expect, your plug in work well as you mentioned, and thanks 3d coat developer team, Andrew too!" ^^
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Hi haikalle, I really excited about new up-date things of your plug in!
then it is not about your plug in, but I test with new 3d coat beta , and generate morph with FBX and OBJ (same mesh export from 3d coat),
FBX seems still somehow corrupted I think,, because when I export as obj, I can get morph correctly, but If I export as FBX, I still see problem.
I only test one time,, then I do not know if I miss some import setting of blender FBX importer,, and as my test I use armatured mesh with plug in to transfer shape key, then it is not simple case.. (but imported as obj work perfectly,, for complex character mesh)
(both mesh are exported with your plug in to 3d coat) then I export them manually from 3d coat and test, how new FBX work with 3d coat 4.8.34(beta)
So, could you generate mesh as moprh ? (if you try to make shape key from import version with your plug in)
If you test and can not generate morph (shape key) I may report it (FBX importer still cause issue about vertex order, I think)
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To Carlosan, Yes I see 3d coat do not have sub-D or multi resolution modifier , then for my case,, which resolution of retopo mesh, 3d coat use to bake?
I import mesh to paint room as x2 temp resolution. then use it as retopo model (paint room >> retopo room work flow) , when I see with wireframe,
the mesh seems smooth but not sub-D . so maybe I need to "sub-divide" in retopo room then bake texture?
Maybe most correct way is just import mesh as obj which already applied sub-D, count which I hope to render, in texture room.
But I know, 3d coat can apply temp resolution when import mesh (as middle poligon I think) then when export I can choose which obj to export.
we usually edit mesh to fit voxel (baking soruce) mesh, in retopo room, even though I use import mesh as retopo mesh.
And it is not matter if I start to make character in 3d coat ,then re-topo and export mesh (base resolution) and apply bone, weight map etc in another map. I just need to use exported from 3d coat. then use texture witch baked for sub-D mesh which I hope to use.
But when character mesh (with bone weight map etc) are made in other app , then plan to make detail map . And we usually apply -sub-D for final render. So clear procedure need when generate maps , for character.
Ideally I hope to choose resolution when baking in retopo room,,, (as same as we can apply temp resolultion in texture room) but not corrupt mesh (vertex count, and order) so that I can still use edit mesh as morph of character.
I suprised because 3d coat usually keep vertex order and vertex dount, even though I separate mesh in retopo room and edit,, then merge layers again,,(maybe I keep island and avoid to merge vertices etc,) then I can still use it as morph.
So,, If I can choose resolution only when baking, (apply temp-sub divide for baking) and generate texture,, it should be very useful... because I can generate morph for base character mesh, with textures (for sub-divide mesh, which I need to use)
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Hi sorry I think it should be simple , but do not know clear so hope someone confirm.
When render character I hope to set 2 level sub-D in blender (or any render tool witch have sub-D modifier)
So ideally I hope to bake high poli-gon mesh on to 2 level sub-D mesh.
I know paint room offer way to add temp-sub-divide. But I do not know clear if I import mesh to retopo room,
or import mesh from paint room to retopo room directly, how these temp sub-D will be used, when we bake maps
from voxel (or high poli surface mesh) model.. can some one tell me how it work?
1. I import mesh in paint room with set sub-D as 2 (temp sub-D then when export it return as base resolution)
2 use visual paint room mesh as retopo mesh. (I do not think, there is option to adjust sub-D)
3 bake normal from sculpt room to retopo mesh.
Now it means 3d coat bake normal(and circulate) for sub-D 2 applied mesh? or it bake normal for base resolution mesh?
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I may need not add my view any more,,,
but as we know even though 3D coat is great tool for sculpt and paint, it never means we can model as same as other modeling tools in retopo room.
to be frankly said, I may not plan, start modeling in 3d coat retopo room,,
(start sculpt in 3d coat and retopo in retopo room) I have many requests about retopo room and edit geometry room( tweak room) which make us more exciting.
At current after all, we can not use built in retopo modeling tools to edit cage,, so I hope
1. future release will offer way to direct edit baking cage (inner and outer).
2 if 1 is dififcult (or cause performance issue etc,,I do not know,,) for a while,, as subistitute,,
Hope 3d coat offer option to export and import shell as mesh for edit some part in modeling tools which user hope to use.
I really like ,3d coat offer option to edit inner and outer shell for baking by brush, so hope go foward,,,
Though most of case I only need some vertex move of shells after tweak with brash,,
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21 hours ago, Carlosan said:
Sorry, its not possible atm.
May better to request?
I hope to know other user how manage when adjust cage for some concave detail area of retopo mesh.
I understand, I can divide part in retopo room as different object with UV sets, but sometimes those concave area faces are connected, then I do not hope to touch them. Then when I try to edit cage (inner and outer) , I can not edit as I need with current brush (most case it work well, but concave with hard angle area easy cause issue, when adjust cage,, like the training video,, even though I opositte brash direction with really small size brush.
So I suspect, if we can use brash, maybe we can do samething with gizmo theoretically, (because there seems already cage data (inner and outer) as mesh -data.. ) or, if brush can edit shell vertices , I suppose, we can import cage as mesh data.. (eg if I really need to make perfect bake cage,, I may edit in another editor, then import obj or FBX as cage,..
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I like current way to edit baking shell by simple brushes. (it seems easy enough)
, but I sometimes need more precisework to adjust baking cage (inner and outer) for some detail area.
and about some faces,, how many times, I tweak brush and change option,, I can not adjust shell correctly..then generate normal clear show problem about
these area.
I felt before,, maybe veteran user can manage it easy,, but when I saw training video , felt 3d coat trainner feel almost same problem,,
do not you think it seems not so easy?
edit shell cage with brush (3d coat training video)
(he seems feel difficulity adjust shell around eye mouse etc,,,even tough he change brush setting,,and it is what I often struggle, and feel problem)
about these area, I really hope to directly edit cage edge ,, faces,,, with gizmo,, like move retopo object,,, I only need move with more precise direction.
sometimes when I brush those concave area, it not work as I expected,, (strech out in, but not work as normal direction)
So,, can I expect,, if we can direct edit with gizmo some edge of baking cage shells when adjust baking shell ?
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What I prefered tutoriall channell is " 3d coat training channell
I do not know, why 3d coat separate training channell from ofiicial you tube channell, but most of videos can really help me a lot.
Then about
It is quite recent up-loaded ivdeos, but after I see these, I could understand more clear. May be you may try import to paint room, and go sculpt room for detail sculpt ,then return paint room with baked normal map.
these 3 videos show detail workflow after you import mesh to paint room, then sculpt and bake normal. then return mesh to paint room again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ralUTyBDqqc
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@haikalle
I think, what I requested seems different from Carlosan.
I do not know z-brush blend shape, but know blender shape keys, and blender mesh option named as "blend shape" which can mix 2 shape keys with limit by vertex selection
Then I just hope to import posed mesh to 3d coat (which use armature and many driven shape keys to change expressions) with your plug in without these steps.
Though I do not know clear how FBX export work with each setting, only did some test with blender FBX export options, and your plug in. I think, at current your plug in can not import armature posed mesh shape. (it return zero pose shape)
To export current posed (and shape keys deformed) shape,
1. I need to delete all shape keys from current mesh. (bake current shape key defomation as default base shape, using blender shape key options )
2 Then apply armature modifier for mesh. (bake posing).
now I can export baked posing and shape keys applied mesh with your plug in.
I hope as future request, if your plug in can offer option, which can export mesh with keep posing and shape keys. But as I mentioned, I can make it easy with another plug in (which offered as official add on (community), and I up-dated for 2.8 just for my purpose)
And I have another request, to import (reflesh) mesh in blender as new shape keys, (without remove armature ,and other shape keys)
the add on which I menitoned above can offer way , to import modified mesh in 3d coat as new shape key, without remove armature (keep mesh with armature, and all shape keys)
As you menitoned, I expect Andrew offer new FBX exporter which can keep vertex order, then as future request, I hope if your plug in can offer way import defromed mesh (in 3d coat) as new shape key in blender . At current after all I need to epxort as obj from 3d coat, then use the add on, to transfer shape to blender posing character. it is not so heavy work, but I really like one click process about these import-export process
All things is just future request, and I do not hurry up at all, there maybe many things, which other user want to concentrate.
(eg ,, export alpha as opacity map ,, then auto generate cycles transparent nodes to use with pinciples shader)
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As practical case, I use corrective shape key add on with Haikare 3d coat applnk,,
1 . generate posed static mesh (with other shape key applied) by using "Create duplicate for editing" (shape key menu added by corrective shape key add on)eg we may hope to mouse open or need set pose for character to sculpt easy.
2 export the posed mesh by 3d coat app-link. to 3d coat (paint room or retopo-room , I prefer export mesh to paint room )
3. edit mesh in re-topo room or edit geometry room
4 export (return) mesh by 3d coat app-link.
5 if there is already other many shape keys applied, make new mix shape then keep it (as" mixall")
5 transfer the imported mesh to character by "Add as corrective-pose shape" then generate new shape key.
6 with case, you may need to blend the generate shape key with "mixall (value = -1.00) , or just use pin new generated shape keys. to show shape correctly.
(to exclude other shape key effect which already applied, these delta can be double applied, when you set the generate shape key as 1.00)
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Thanks haikalle (and thanks 3d coat dev team)
Then I hope to mention about blender FBX exporter limitation. and one add on which may be useful with mix your plug in.
As you know, it can not generate mesh with keep armature posing and shape keys.
To export posed (with shape key) mesh, we need to remove shape keys (or make new shape keys with mix all and use it as base) then apply armature modifier. But about obj, it can export mesh with keep visual transforms of vertices. (so export mesh keep pose with shape keys applied)
But after all, even though we edit mesh in 3d coat then, return as new obj (or FBX), current blender default shape key tools not forgive us to return the shape as new shape keys of character mesh, when the character mesh already posed (with other shape keys value)
I only know one add on, it can generate new shape keys, with keep posing. (transfer current shape (mesh) to posing character mesh as new shape key)
https://archive.blender.org/wiki/index.php/Extensions:2.5/Py/Scripts/Corrective_Shape_Key/
It is default add on (from community) of blender, But this add on not work for 2.8 I have waited a long time, but there seems no one try to up-date it as official, then yesterday, I up-date it. it seems work.
I do not think it need for most of 3d coat user, (and haikare ) but as future update , if it may help to add option , export posed mesh to 3d coat, then re-import as shape key for character mesh)
This is link of up-dated "Corrective_Shape_Key.py" . if you often use character with armature, please use it as you like. (And hope if you can merge it as your plug in) I may keep this link for a while, then if you need it use and test free. (you need to overwrite default add on, in 2.8 program directory, and linked one only work with 2.8 (for 2.7 we can use official version as same as before)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9qj8iwtpwa8k2gq/animation_add_corrective_shape_key.py?dl=0
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Thanks,, I could find "Conform retopo mesh" option for move, transform, and pose tool. Sorry I perfectly forgot this option ^^;
it seems work for my current process. But with current mesh, "Confrom retopo mesh" and move tool cause heave lag for me to adjust shape .
I try Pe-procject tool (I am not sure, how it will work ) which you suggested.
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I know voxel objecet can auto snap with retopo mesh, which made from sculpt mesh, about pose ,translation, Move tool.
But Is there way to use auto snap for sculpt mesh (surface mode) which transfered from retopo mesh by "retopo mesh to sculpt mesh" ?
What I hope to do is,
1. import low resolution mesh in paint room.
2 By "use visible painted object as Retopo" then transfer paint mesh to Retopo room.
3 I divide mesh to 2 layer, (Retopogroup1 and Hide) and hide some part which need not sculpt (eg eyelash , inner mouth etc) in Retopo room.
4 In sculpt room, I use "Geometry> Retopo mesh to Sculptmesh". now retopo mesh of2 layers are transfered as Voxel layer in sculpt room (surface mode)
5 Then I hope to sub-divide layer, or increase resolution with surface mode, and add some detail , but for large tweaking, I hope to use Pose and move brash,
Is there way, to auto snap current retopo mesh to follow transfered Sculpt mesh edit? (pose tool, move too) ?
these 2 meshes in both room are almost perfectly identical. (though I may hope to add resolution, with detail sculpt, later,,)
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I understand FBX now becom more popular for convert meshes in apricaitons. then it seems reasonable you choose FBX.
Then the great thing is,, your app can import FBX without problem with 3d coat, (and it now show all UV tiles of UDIM about complex character
And for just my purpose,, I could find stable way to re-import mesh as OBJ for shape keys and blender.
About other things current plug in work without problem . (so it only need when I make morph from 3d coat mesh which imported by plug in)
After transfer mesh to 3d coat, I tweak it to adjust some shape.
then export as morph.obj, as same as "Open in original app".
There is only one option I need to change was " apply addtional scale as 0.01" in export option. (maybe this scale need for convert FBX to obj with blender units )
I import the morph.obj with "default blender import setting" (must check keep vertexorder)
now import mesh can keep same size. but when you import as obj, it change rotation and scale value, then apply "rotation, scale, transform".
after that I can use the import.obj to join as new sahpe to add new shape key without problem.
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I test again, with mesh which export as FBX from blender then re-import without any defomation. it can keep vertex order.
but if I import same FBX to 3d coat, then just export as FBX from 3d coat again, exported mesh never work (I apply scale, rotation things correctly)
and I see effect, which I often see when vertex order is broken. (so untill FBX exporter of 3d coat will keep vertex order, I can not request this^^;)
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Hi haikalle, thanks good plug in, and keep update
Then I do not know it is important for other user, but one thing I hope to add is, import mesh as shape key option,
I tweak or edit (move), per pixel painting obj or retopo obj, though most of case replace is OK, but when I try to sculpt and bake textures for already made
character mesh,," import as shape key " option is important for me.
But there seems one problem about 3d coat FBX import export process, it seems not keep vertex order,,but obj import export seems work at lease
about "per pixel paint import object", and "retopo import object" I feel.
I need more test, but when I use import ,export as obj, it can generate shape key without problem, but if I use import or export FBX,, it seems cause issue..
Then this plug in need to use FBX importer of 3d coat ,right? then if there is good way, I hope this option will be added.
and hope when you can take a time,, check plug in replaced mesh can use as shape key or not. As my test, it seems not work.
(maybe FBX exporter (or importer) seems break vertex order, which saved in paint room)
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To Carlosan,
Thank you taking your time for this test. So now I can confirm, small unit mesh cause clipping issue when we set scene scale as 1.00, and at current 3d coat can not adjust it by "Near plane modulator", or orthographic view. it need to report with other suggestion.
To Digman
Yes. of course your guide is correct. I know you mentioned, to keep obj untill import next one in paint room. I just hope to say, 3d coat need to be improved, even though your workflow and guide work well .Why I bother "import object" with keep one mesh in paintroom, I found another unvset problem. it tend to cause wrong UVset name for UDIM UV . It exchange UVtile number. 1001 to 1008 etc. It seems not happen when I use "Import". I happend to find it, when I need to import multiple UDIM object in paint room with use "import" option. It need to be reported too.
Anyway, I send report to support , . hope they have more time to check these things with test.
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3 hours ago, Carlosan said:
Please send that mail, this is know issue with the current workflow.
Thanks you confrim too. But at same time, I happend to find this clipping issue when I set scene scale as 1.00 before, I often see it, when I try to import mesh from blender, with my setting.
Camera looks inside object when it's close, instead on surface
I afraid, if andrew change 3d coat keep scene scale 1.00 as I requested when I import obj (which use measurement unit as "Meter"), this clipping issue will happen.
Could you test with my 3d coat file attached above link(my last reply) , and can confrim, clipping issue happen with your pc too?
I suspect at current, 3d coat must need to change scene scale when user import "small value size obj" ( eg bounding box, x=2, y=2, z=2)
3d coat treat the obj too small , then auto scale it. Change Measurement units work to show size correctly, but it is only matter with measurement tool.then clipping problem still happen if user froce scene scale as 1.00
Then if "request 2" is solved, at same time clipping issue (low size units value mesh) need to be solved too. or many blender user see same problem.when export obj and use scene scale as 1.00 in 3d coat. I think, clipping issue is more serious problem, once it happen I can not use any brush with close up.
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I found why it happen, and how correct it. it only happen when I import obj . and change scene scale which 3d coat auto-set.
I set scene scale as 1.00 to get correclt result with grid. but it cause 3d coat think this obj is too small. then clipping issue happen.
if I ignore custom grid , I can just keep 3d coat auto set "scene scale" .
I change "scene scale" as 500 etc ( almost same value which 3d coat auto set scene scale when I import this meter size obj with meter unit) ,
then save and load the scene. now it can close up without problem. But it means I can not use grid as reasonable size.
it is not matter how measurement unit I set (m or mm). so I can still use measurement tools to get actuall size. but grid distance are perfeclty change.
So to avoid this problem I may need to change export setting from my modelor. (blender) , eg x100 or x 500 etc. then 3d coat may think, the obj is reasonable size.
and I can set scene scale as 1 to get custom grid distance and show correctly as visual infomation.
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And if I change view setting as orthographic, it can return brash, but 3d coat now limit dsitance. . I can not zoom up the legs part.
in this pic, I can not zoom up any more to check feet mesh. as if 3d coat restrict view distance of camera.
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sorry to raise old topic, but I found by google.
then As Carlosan suggested, I suppose Near plane modulator should work, (as same as blender camera clipping value).
but not work for me,,,
I think it seems happen the mesh have many poligons with detail. (eg I alerady imported same size cube, but it not cause this problem with almost same size)
and even though I set the value as 0.01 etc,, (so unit = 1m, it should be 1cm),, and apply it,, 3d coat view not change..
and it hide my brash too. I need to take large disance to return my brash as visible...(more than one grid unit, I think)and it not matter about real brash size.
of course if I use pararell view, it work. (but as you know, we may not choose it for adjust shape detail,,)
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I hope to add next suggestion (rezuest), it is more simple problem. even though voxels per unit not work (or grid setting), I can keep my measurement setting.
so if I ignore grid,, it may not cause big problem. But change setting without user notice is bad.
Now I delete these obj (in paint room, and in sculpt room) from current scene (already saved), but keep 3d coat open.
About most of aprication, once user set scale things, (measurement unit scale unit etc,,) the setting are used untill user close aprication.
and import mesh do not means, make new scene. but if I use "File > import> for per pixel painting" and import same obj,
now I can see measurement units seems return as "mm". but my custom grid setting is same.
Is there any merit, 3d coat auto-change user setting as default?
and measurement unit is important , to see actual size.. but if it change units without intention, why we need measurement tool?
Digman kindly already offer way to keep, these setting, he suggest do not use "import" but use "import object".
but once I delete all paint object from current scene, the menu have gone away, untill I import new obj again
that means, just to keep user setting, we need to keep mesh even though we need not anymore. it simply cause trouble, or cause mistake when we wrok with many objects.
And it not only change about measurement units (M to mm), but change scene scale too. (I hope to keep it as 1. never hope it change again, untill I need it)
the scene scale seems auto adjust (I do not know, how it work though) value. I really annoying, why I need to reset them again and again everytime import mesh?
what is purpose, 3d coat auto-change these setting value?
suggeston (requset 2) : Please do not change any setting of "measurement unit"," voxel per units", "unit scale", "scene scale" "scene off-set values(x y z)" untill user change it by themself , just use same value.
And please offer way to keep these setting as start file, or as setting value of user preference .Most of User do not hope 3d coat auto set these value whch user decided once. And hope way to keep these settings as default.
that means when we start new scene, or import mesh for anyroom, these settings (which user decide) are used. untill we change them manually. it is standard manner of any aprication, I think so. is not it?
Of course I know Andrew and support team gradually improve about these setting things for user request. I actually offer almost same request in mantis too. and I see quite a few user already offered same report, then sometimes it change somehow, and set as resolved but after all remain some problem.
I do not hope to request or bug report about same things. but it is really important (and basic thing) for user experience I believe. please test carefully and understand why it is problem that 3d coat auto set these values. it is not expected at all.
Blender Applink
in 3DCoat AppLinks
Posted
I think, it almost work well! then one thing I may hope to know is, 3d coat setting for import export when use this plug in. I understand, plug in auto set options of blender side for export import. FBX, then 3d coat setting is only matter. to "mport" and "Open in original app."
About these test, I do not import texture,,(so do not check texture options in blender) then I see sometimes normal not import with smooth, or pivot point change then move down when I up-date.
and as your option, it overwrite UVmap with mesh too. then it show somehow strange UDIM UV map with my node stting. (repeat many tiny texture on maps) Usually I keep original, then I can easy transfer UV in blender,. I think those things simply change how I set in 3d coat options. so hope to know which setting may best to overwrite mesh only.
And If you can,, I hope 2 things to more flexible.( when user miss setting about options)
1 option, only import mesh , or only import UV map. (when change UVmap, without we keep original,, correct UV is a little bit difficult about UDIM tiles)
2 offer option, just import mesh as new object, without overwrite. (it is not matter how texture are applied, when user use this option, user only need to get mesh of vertex position. then user can make shpe key if I need, without overwrite. eg now we have 2 default button, "Transfer" and "Update", then I hope one more button eg (import)