32bit depth and arbitary map support

[jamie]

I didn't want to hijack the request already made, but I would like to go a bit further with the request for 32bit depth painting.

Specifically, the ability to paint/modify arbitary maps in 8, 16 or 32bit depth and control the connection of these maps to viewport and exported shaders.

The reasoning is as follows:

Production shaders have arbitary map (channel) inputs, very rarely restricted to only color, spec, normal.

In fact it's an ever expanding list... subsurface strength, translucency, specular/reflective sharpness and diffuse roughness to name a few.

It seems both counter-intuitive and limiting to have separate tools and switches for these maps.

For example, surely it is better if the airbrush paints the same way on a specular map as it does on the color map - or a diffuse, gloss, bump or sss map?

Layering would also be more intuitive if it was per map. In effect, reverse of the current situation where layers may (or may not - there is no way to see) contain color/spec/displacment.

This approach is already used by the two heavyweights for 3d painting - Mari and Bodypaint.

I believe these changes would make it easier and more powerful to work inside 3dcoat and also easier to transfer shaded models into the production pipeline without losing anything in translation.

Having said this, I believe the importance and development direction of 3dcoat should remain in voxel sculpting and autopo, where it stands alone far ahead of the competition.

I can always go to Mari or Bodypaint (or even mudbox if things get desperate) for painting shader maps.

Just to show I'm not (only) a rambling madman, I've attached a render of some reindeers I created (sculpted/textured) in 3dcoat for the Eureka series. I also used 3dcoat to paint/adjust the fur maps.

[AbnRanger]

I didn't want to hijack the request already made, but I would like to go a bit further with the request for 32bit depth painting.

Specifically, the ability to paint/modify arbitary maps in 8, 16 or 32bit depth and control the connection of these maps to viewport and exported shaders.

The reasoning is as follows:

Production shaders have arbitary map (channel) inputs, very rarely restricted to only color, spec, normal.

In fact it's an ever expanding list... subsurface strength, translucency, specular/reflective sharpness and diffuse roughness to name a few.

It seems both counter-intuitive and limiting to have separate tools and switches for these maps.

For example, surely it is better if the airbrush paints the same way on a specular map as it does on the color map - or a diffuse, gloss, bump or sss map?

Layering would also be more intuitive if it was per map. In effect, reverse of the current situation where layers may (or may not - there is no way to see) contain color/spec/displacment.

This approach is already used by the two heavyweights for 3d painting - Mari and Bodypaint.

I believe these changes would make it easier and more powerful to work inside 3dcoat and also easier to transfer shaded models into the production pipeline without losing anything in translation.

Having said this, I believe the importance and development direction of 3dcoat should remain in voxel sculpting and autopo, where it stands alone far ahead of the competition.

I can always go to Mari or Bodypaint (or even mudbox if things get desperate) for painting shader maps.

Just to show I'm not (only) a rambling madman, I've attached a render of some reindeers I created (sculpted/textured) in 3dcoat for the Eureka series. I also used 3dcoat to paint/adjust the fur maps.

I happen to appreciate the way 3DC layers work...as opposed to being FORCED to paint separate maps/channels on separate layers. When you export...3D Coat combines all the bump/normal channel information from multiple layers into one map. So, you could have 20 layers with bump/normal detail but it gets baked into one bump/normal map upon export. 30 layers of color, one color map upon export, etc.

If you want to paint only bump/depth on one layer, knock yourself out...all you need to do is turn off color and spec for that layer. You can even export any layer as a separate map. So, if you want to paint a dirt map...knock yourself out....SSS map....knock yourself out. You are not limited from doing this in 3D Coat. Compare that to Mudbox, where you have only one channel per layer. In 3DC, you can have it either way. What is wrong with that much flexibility?

Andrew should focus on Voxel Sculpting and leave painting to the professionals? Really? Please elaborate. So, you have Image-Based Sculpting (LIVE normal map/Displacement map relief and detail) with Mari and have a full-fledged Ptex toolset (not just PTex file format export capability), where you can export out and render in ANY render engine?

Can you select from a library of 3D models, manipulate it's orientation, scale and such in a preview window and then use that model as a brush? 3D Coat started and continues to hang it's hat on it's 3D Painting toolset, and is arguably the most versatile of the bunch. I bought it as a replacement for Deep Paint 3D and I wouldn't trade it for Mari or BodyPaint any day of the week. It has room for improvement, but then every application does.

[jamie]

I happen to appreciate the way 3DC layers work...as opposed to being FORCED to paint separate maps/channels on separate layers. When you export...3D Coat combines all the bump/normal channel information from multiple layers into one map. So, you could have 20 layers with bump/normal detail but it gets baked into one bump/normal map upon export. 30 layers of color, one color map upon export, etc.

If you want to paint only bump/depth on one layer, knock yourself out...all you need to do is turn off color and spec for that layer. You can even export any layer as a separate map. So, if you want to paint a dirt map...knock yourself out....SSS map....knock yourself out. You are not limited from doing this in 3D Coat. Compare that to Mudbox, where you have only one channel per layer. In 3DC, you can have it either way. What is wrong with that much flexibility?

Andrew should focus on Voxel Sculpting and leave painting to the professionals? Really? Please elaborate. So, you have Image-Based Sculpting (LIVE normal map/Displacement map relief and detail) with Mari and have a full-fledged Ptex toolset (not just PTex file format export capability), where you can export out and render in ANY render engine?

Can you select from a library of 3D models, manipulate it's orientation, scale and such in a preview window and then use that model as a brush? 3D Coat started and continues to hang it's hat on it's 3D Painting toolset, and is arguably the most versatile of the bunch. I bought it as a replacement for Deep Paint 3D and I wouldn't trade it for Mari or BodyPaint any day of the week. It has room for improvement, but then every application does.

Sorry took so long to reply... holidays

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of 3dcoat and am not trying to be negative at all.

My perspective is that specialized programs are better for high-end productions, and the one area that 3dcoat dominates is voxel sculpting, so personally I would prefer that area was focused on at the expense of the painting toolset. Things like improving the autoretop and adding layer support.

And if both painting and voxel sculpting can be developed simultaneously then my original request stands... support for 32bit maps for custom shaders.