Member themacguy Posted November 29, 2010 Member Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 I've just finished a small test-render of a matrix of spheres, all with the same default "Chrome" shader... However, the results just do NOT look at all convincing to my eye... Does anybody have a really GOOD chrome texthure/shader with whatever support files are needed (bumps, specularity, environment maps etc.) I find that ALL of the spheres seem to be reflecting (dimly) the same "background" (env. map, I think?!) but do NOT reflect any of the other spheres in the matrix... VERY unconvincing as I said... What's the right technique? Can this be done within 3D-Coats render room, or not? IF not, then how to I prepare and "package" such a "chrome object" for (I think....) OctaneRender... which has a "nodal" shader window--although I do NOT have any real idea how that works, or how to "feed it" a chromed object coming from 3D-Coat.. Clearly I have a LOT to learn! :-) Usually I can figure things out on my own, but this little "tuning" and "workflow" example has me stumped! :-/ Here's a screenshot of one of the test "chrome object" renders---judge for yourself! and, T.I.A. for any help or suggestions anybody can answer with! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 I don't think this can be done in 3D-Coat, what you need is something like LightWave's renderer that will handle ray traced reflections. 3DC's render is not really meant to be used as final render to my knowledge, just kind of a way to present your model before you move on to other programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member themacguy Posted November 29, 2010 Author Member Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 I don't think this can be done in 3D-Coat, what you need is something like LightWave's renderer that will handle ray traced reflections. 3DC's render is not really meant to be used as final render to my knowledge, just kind of a way to present your model before you move on to other programs. Hi Phil! Thanks for your quick reply I **thought** that what you've said would probably be the case...I presently do NOT have access to any stand-alone rendering package, although I'm HOPING that OCTANE_RENDER will do that sort of job---but it won't run without an NVIDIA card, (expensive and very hard to get for Macintosh!. I've been recommended to "just" install a cheaper PC-type NVIDIA card and use a "virtual" installation of Windows (and a PC version of everything else..) but, at present, this is not an option for me... Do you know if a procedural-shader construction module is, or willl be "in development", anytime fairly "soon", for an upcoming version of 3d-Coat? Something similar to Octane Render... see: http://www.refractivesoftware.com/ for details of O.R.!!! :-) In any event---if something modelled and shaded coming from 3D-Coat has to be TRANSFERED to another program in the "workflow", exactly HOW is this accomplished??? ---Presumably with the export procedure "bringing along with it" all the various "less than perfect" shaders ---and image maps and whatever-else-is-needing-to-be-'tweaked', from within 3D-Coat? I'd LOVE to see a simple button in 3D-Coat's render-room that just says---"EXPORT PROJECT".... resulting in a "package" that has ALL the pieces in it, well organized for import into the next program being used to take over and finish the job! Likewise, there should be an ELEGANT way of handling shaders (plus all the supporting files)... ---an easy way to "package" for import or export or to re-use... Then 3D-Coat users start building an online collection of such "hand-crafted" or "tweaked" shaders (plus image maps etc..) that users of 3D-Coat come up with... I used to dabble around (about 10 years ago) with a Mac program called "Infini-Dee" from a company called "Specular" see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infini-D ---and it DID have a true ray-traced rendered output...but of course it was REALLY slow... ---taking 45 minutes or so to generate a single image, and much longer for complex scenes. However it **DID** have a WONDERFUL chrome shader, that gave back true ray-traced reflections of the other objects in the scene... -----Along with adjustable shaders for "glass" to change it's colour, translucence, and it's refractive properties. A very high-quality render "in it's day"--however their modeller was, well, "a work in progress"...at best. It seems the Mac platform has, until very recently, "dropped the ball" (a *chromed* one, of course!) in regards to having a wider array of three-dee-modelling or rendering software... ---particularly at the "low cost" end of the spectrum! Thanks to you, or anybody else who might help move this discussion along! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted November 29, 2010 Report Share Posted November 29, 2010 It depends on what you're working on. If you're in the painting room, yes you can just go to File > Export Object and that will export your object with all of the textures. If you are using voxels it can get a little more complicated but not too much if you use auto-retopo to send it to the paint room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member themacguy Posted December 1, 2010 Author Member Report Share Posted December 1, 2010 It depends on what you're working on. If you're in the painting room, yes you can just go to File > Export Object and that will export your object with all of the textures. If you are using voxels it can get a little more complicated but not too much if you use auto-retopo to send it to the paint room. Thanks for your quick reply! I find that ANYTHING I build in the Voxel room DOES NOT SHOW UP in ANY of the other editorial rooms--but DOES show up in the final render room... At my present level of "understanding" of 3d-Coat (very very very low, admittedly!) I cannot figure out HOW to take a voxel-constructed object "into" these other rooms---the online video tutorials don't seem to cover this critical step at ALL.... It would be VERY useful to have a video that takes a "total newbie approach" to construcing a VERY SIMPLE model & then "taking it through the workflow" (eg: simple primitive cube, from the "Gizmo" then smooth off the corners, drill a hole in it.. etc.. SIMPLE with only one or two changes to the primitive cube.) THEN "walk it through the steps" IN GREAT DETAIL, the steps needed to take the voxel-model into the retopo room (fixes "mesh" errors, I believe???), then "unwrap" it (UV room???)---and do some VERY SIMPLE work on the "unwrapped skin", then (I guess??) take it in "sculpt" and "paint" rooms... (by-the-way, I"m finding that ALL these rooms are BLANK for me... and I don't know why! :-//) --- and finally "package" the file for export with textures "skin" wireframe (?) and whatever else is needed (??? WHAT is needed???)---to export it into another "external" program for final texturing and full ray-trace-rendering... (eg: Octane Render) Sorry for the dreary list of "things I do not know", but I'm trying to turn "lemons" into "lemonade" here! Sometimes experts FORGET how difficult and utterly baffling some of this stuff can be, when starting out for the very first time... ---they've forgotten "the hard parts" of the very front-end beginning of the learning curve! :-) Thanks for any reply!!---I hope such a video tutorial as I've described shows up here, someday "soon"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 1, 2010 Report Share Posted December 1, 2010 A voxel model should be visible in the retopo room the painting room only uses polygonal models so you have to retopo the voxel model, then from the Retopo menu pick one of the Merge options to get it into the paint room. That's just the very basics of it of course there is a lot more detail you could get into. Not to say you haven't, but have you read the manual? A lot of answers can be found in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member themacguy Posted December 2, 2010 Author Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 A voxel model should be visible in the retopo room the painting room only uses polygonal models so you have to retopo the voxel model, then from the Retopo menu pick one of the Merge options to get it into the paint room. That's just the very basics of it of course there is a lot more detail you could get into. Not to say you haven't, but have you read the manual? A lot of answers can be found in there. Hi Phil.... Again, thanks for the quick reply, however you've basically "skated around" my question/problem which is that when I create a voxel primative, and "release" it from the Gizmo (by selecting one of the other "edit" tools... ) NOTHING shows up, in ANY other window, except the render-room.. Nothing at all in the Retopo room, Paint room, or Sculpting room either.... Is there a preference or some button-i-have-to-push first? It's like the old techie/computer-salesman joke "...They claim is that it's completely automatic, but actually you have to press this tiny little button hidden away around the back side of it..." :-) b.t.w. YES I've read the manual---a lot of it doesn't really have a conceptual hook to hang the "information" on--so to me, so far a lot of it is just NOISE... and confusing noise as well... :-/ A picture is worth a thousand word, a VIDEO is worth ten-thousand words,, and a REALLY GOOD, very lucid, well photographed, and narrated video CAN be worth a MILLION words.... I still haven't seen a video like that---intended for rank "newbies" (like ME!!)---that really DOES cover-the-ground with a SIMPLE linear example----Taking it right-through-ALL-the-steps, & explaining the "workflow" process (ie: "what little button to push!" with enough detail that the newbie can use that video as an ADEQUATE template to proceed to do simple stuff.... The standard for writing a "newbie" manual is---can your mother, or grandmother understand it?? :-}}} Just because YOU understand it intuitively and easily, does NOT mean that they will be able to do so! Another is, if YOU knew NOTHING about it (hypothetically) ....can you sit down and USING ONLY THE **EXPLICIT** DIRECTIONS BEING SHOWN IN THE EXISTING TUTORIAL...absolutely NOTHING ELSE.... ---follow and repeat the steps being shown (EG. in this site's series of video-tutorials for 3d-Coat)---and then get the SAME results that the demonstrator is getting? I'm NOT getting results like that!!! :-// I've written a lot of documentation in my previous career; to explain Photoshop manuals (written in "jargon")--"translating" & re-writing them into step-wise, concrete, "baby-step-by-baby-step" sets of linked instructions that LITERALLY a senior-citizen CAN understand! I taught adult-education---intro-to-computers, and Internet, and computer desktop-publishing "2-Dee" courses---to elderly first-time students---for over ten years, so I know what sort of "language" passes muster, and what doesn't... It's a very interesting (and HUMBLING!) to be on the "receiving end" of a (supposedly) "newbie" "obvious" set of instructions, that I WANT to make sense of---that "makes ME "feel like a COMPLETE idiot" (and that is the EXACT phrase I hear from nearly EVERY elderly student at their first lesson! :-) Has ANYBODY had problems with their installation of 3d_Coat, such that they do not see any voxel-created object in "the other rooms"??? I'm stumped on this--do I (should I) erase the program and try reinstalling it "from scratch"???? I don't want to bugger up my purchased licence... Again,,, thanks for any reply on this.. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Hi Phil.... Again, thanks for the quick reply, however you've basically "skated around" my question/problem which is that when I create a voxel primative, and "release" it from the Gizmo (by selecting one of the other "edit" tools... ) NOTHING shows up, in ANY other window, except the render-room.. I didn't skate around anything I'm trying to help you but misunderstood. You have to press Enter to create the voxel object before moving on to other tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member themacguy Posted December 2, 2010 Author Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 I didn't skate around anything I'm trying to help you but misunderstood. You have to press Enter to create the voxel object before moving on to other tools. Hi Phil... I'm sorry if that term was interpreted as hard sarcasm, it wasn't intended that way---and if it came across that way, I do apologize! Meanwhile, YES---I've hit "ENTER" (and/or RETURN) after creating a primitive, then fiddled around with brushes and suchlike to "carve" some details into (say) a simple cube.. but again i say--NOTHING is showing up in any of the other 'rooms' except for the render room! --A somewhat "fiddled with" Voxel Cube, ready to be rendered.... Is there a video that explicitly covers this "simple" step?? I must be missing a step here, but I just can't parse out what it might be! Thanks Again, Very much! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 OK here's a quick video, pretty much as simple as I can make it, going from creating a voxel object to painting textures. (Ignore the part where I couldn't figure out why it wasn't painting color) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member themacguy Posted December 2, 2010 Author Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 OK here's a quick video, pretty much as simple as I can make it, going from creating a voxel object to painting textures. (Ignore the part where I couldn't figure out why it wasn't painting color) Hi Phil... THANK-YOU! I had to play it back a frame-at-a-time to catch most of what you were doing, but I did manage to "follow the magic footsteps" (well, sort of... ;-}} and create a (rather crude) painted/UV skinned, model..... IF you could find the time to really Slllooooow it down... and add a very granular and descriptive narration of what you are doing, and WHY you are doing it, and any useful general tips... Im CERTAIN that the people (metaphorically) lined up after me, needing the same level of support would thank you a great deal!! (don't you just *hate* spam??? ;-) Ya' probably should have a few shots of tequila before viewing my result... :-) It's a bit too large to post here (4.0 MB) , so I've put it on my webserver... http://www.ihelpmac.dyndns.org/assorted/threedeepaint/archive.zip Obviously still a HELL of a long way to go... but at least I managed to "walk it through the rooms" :-) I still do not understand WHY the two boxes on the left side of the launch-splash-screen --showing a folder icon with 3DC's logo, and a square with a white X in it, the banner above both of these icons reads: VOXEL SCULPTING---both seem to lead directly to the Voxel room---and NEITHER of them generate anything OUTSIDE of the voxel room and Render room----except for "empty rooms" for UV, Scultping, Retopo..... So... what the HELL is that square-button-with-the-X USED for? :-) Any ideas??? What happens when/if YOU use that button to launch into the voxel room....what sort of "results" do you get? (enquiring minds would like to know... :-) Meanwhile, Thanks Again (and again,,,,and again... and again.........) for the intro-"workflow" tutorial video SHOWING some of the "dance steps"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 The square with an X one is supposed to create an empty room because if you want to start with a different primitive or use some other way to start your model you don't need a sphere or any of the other options. The folder opens a "load file" requester that let's you browse for a file you'd like to import tot he Voxel room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member themacguy Posted December 2, 2010 Author Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 The square with an X one is supposed to create an empty room because if you want to start with a different primitive or use some other way to start your model you don't need a sphere or any of the other options. The folder opens a "load file" requester that let's you browse for a file you'd like to import tot he Voxel room. Hi Phil... I understand your reply... However the thrust of my question is "Why does this NOT WORK PROPERLY"===I've tried opening both .OBJ files and .3b files from the 3DC folder icon---and NOTHING shows up in the "empty room" (just the gizmo, but nothing at all attached to it!). A somewhat different experience when using the Square-with-an-X-icon way of opening up an empty voxel room.... The "room" opens up. I create a primitive, such as a sphere or cube or whatever, using the Gizmo... Then hit ENTER to convert the primitive to voxels... and select one of the brush/carve tools to "release" the item from the Gizmo entirely---then I edit the shape a bit---and then go look at it in the RENDER room... where it DOES show up... ---however it does NOT show up in ANY of the the other "rooms" (UV, Sculpt, Retopo, or Paint).... So, if starting a project in either of two ways generate such a 'broken' response---What is the "right" way of using them? (in fact WHY are they listed on the startup splash-screen AT ALL??? What is the "correct" way (if there is one?!?!) of using them? I'm still trying to figure it out, but can't find anything on this in the manual wiki, or in the Forums.... If anybody reading this knows what this is all about, and the "right way" of using the square-X-icon, or the folder-icon , on the left side of the opening splash-screen, PLEASE post a reply on this topic! Thanks! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Are you sure the imported object is not just small and needs to be scaled up? I tested with the Dino model and it works fine, it was just small. Video: http://screencast.com/t/IoaO1mYJw0 Edit: Primitives seem to work fine here too. Video: http://screencast.com/t/AotPy8lJQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member themacguy Posted December 2, 2010 Author Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 I have another small related question... When launching 3DCoat I get the standard splash screen showing up with the various choices of what "room" to start with... Accidentally I brushed against the keyboard's space-bar at that point-in-time, and along with the splashscreen--THIS round palette popped up briefly... but was "untouchable". I continued launching the program, and selected the voxel-room (square-with-an-X-icon).. where hitting the spacebar again brings up the standard "primitive" geneerator menu... What is the round palette used for. and how do you "summon" it, when working in the 3DC program? (see screenshots) I don't seem to find any reference to it in the manual... As always, thanks for any replies on this! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 The round one is in the painting room, a color palette with all of the painting room tools around it. I believe you can set the inner most ring to be whatever colors you like, but I haven't looked into how to do that. BTW in the voxel room the menu isn't just primitives, it's all of the tools you you see along the left side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member themacguy Posted December 2, 2010 Author Member Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Are you sure the imported object is not just small and needs to be scaled up? I tested with the Dino model and it works fine, it was just small. Video: http://screencast.com/t/IoaO1mYJw0 Edit: Primitives seem to work fine here too. Video: http://screencast.com/t/AotPy8lJQ Hi Phil... Hmm... I think Ive spotted something---YOUR splash-creen and YOUR primitive generator (hit keyboard spacebar in Voxelroom..) look DIFFERENT from mine! YOU have a full set of icons (L. to R.: headless chicken, rounded cube, marble statue, sharp-edge cube, standing monster, and finally a large shiny sphere! My splash-screen is much "plainer" than yours: 3DC folder icon, square-with-an-x icon, then small, medium, large brown spheres, then sharp brown cube, then finally a brown cylinder... Are we working with the same version, I wonder?? The info in the window menu (I'm on a Mac) says I"m using "3D-COAT 3.5.00(GL)(educational) ----are we using the same "build" of the software??? OR is the educational version "cripple-ware" in some respects??? I wonder.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philnolan3d Posted December 2, 2010 Report Share Posted December 2, 2010 Yeah the one you described for me is the normal one for the voxel sculpting. Hover your mouse over each of the 3 text blocks and you'll see the icons below change. It's not related to the splash screen, but it does appear that we're using different versions. The latest is 3.5.06C and can be downloaded in the forum here under New Releases and Betas actually this "C" update was just posted by Andrew a couple hours ago, I still have to download it myself, I'm still on 3.5.06B. http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6634 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Tom K Posted December 4, 2010 Advanced Member Report Share Posted December 4, 2010 ...I presently do NOT have access to any stand-alone rendering package, It seems the Mac platform has, until very recently, "dropped the ball" (a *chromed* one, of course!) in regards to having a wider array of three-dee-modelling or rendering software... ---particularly at the "low cost" end of the spectrum! Thanks to you, or anybody else who might help move this discussion along! Have you heard of Blender? www.blender.org/ It's free. It is available for Mac. It's a highly regarded rendering and animation package. You can use it to render your 3d-coat objects. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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