AbnRanger
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Posts posted by AbnRanger
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I mentioned this idea some time ago on the Newtek/Lightwave forums (although I largely use 3ds Max), but I think RIGHT NOW is the perfect time to roll out a feature that could knock the socks off a good percentage of the 3D community...that is to write a plugin/port for each Major application to provide a Live/Realtime texture link..just like Combustion has with 3ds Max:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGk_1MpxIFY
As many of you know, Interactive Preview Renderers (FPrime for Lightwave has been way ahead of it's time in this regard), such as VRay RT are now the Big Thing and will be the major focus of Siggraph this year (realtime rendering). With a live link to the Material Editors/Nodes in these programs, the implications are HUGE. No matter what the renderer, the results will be the same. For example...you could paint SSS maps in 3DC and watch it update in near realtime in the host application. To me, this is far better than the Viewport capabilities of Mudbox, cause you're seeing the finished results in the host applications renderer, with all the bells and whistles.
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I'm really glad you did....this can be such a big time saver, just fleshing out rough forms for all kinds of models.Making sketch tool took only one day. It is really small time in comparison to possible usefulness of this true voxel tool.Other time was spent on improving of the current toolset.
So, don't worry about that. Sometimes I am not able to resist to make something new especially if it will take one day.
Now if we could just have simple icons to quickly select and transform objects like you have in every other 3D application, we'd be set (QWER shortcuts keys) for Select (Q), Move (W), Rotate (E), Scale ®And how about this revolutionary concept...select an object and when you hit the delete button on your keyboard...it deletes it! No really guys...you can thank me later. I've on the phone with the patent office as we speak...
:p
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I'm sure if Andrew went with this, that you'd be able to customize it that way, but the QWER is an industry standard. LW likes to do things different from everyone else and that's fine...it's just more users would be used to QWER. Having the icons there is the main thing. It just seems so unintuitive to open the program up and struggle to find out how to simply select the object and move, scale, rotate it. This is simple as ABC and 123...yet it is obscure and hidden in 3DC.Why WER and not TYH?I wish Andrew would focus in simplify the things that should be simple, before moving on to the next wiz-bang feature...you shouldn't have to dig through pages and pages, tutorial after tutorial just to figure out how to select an object and delete it
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If it can go from 3DC to IGES, CAT and/or other solid surface formats, I'm in. In 3ds Max, you mostly have to use very high $$$ plugins (NPower's PowerNurbs Pro/Translator/Solids) to export. Being able to go quickly from rapid prototype for Graphic Design/Promotional materials straight to solid surface/manufacturing stage is a very intriguing prospect.First stage - just import 3DM.Second - manipulating nurbs surfaces in 3DC shell
What about export - I will see how it goes.
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Hey Andrew, LJB brought up a good point in one thread about the need to lock the Orbiting axis to the Y for 3DConnexion devices, using World Space coordinates (I use the Space Pilot...and it's this support that helped me decide to buy into 3DC). Sometimes, even when I put my cursor on the model, it's still awkward and takes more fiddling with it than it should. It's very smooth and predictable in 3ds Max...not so much in 3DC.
2) Trying to get to grips with the program is still a bittersweet endeavor. There are a lot of features I stumble upon that make me grin...yet at other times, it gets downright aggravating. Some of the most elementary things are not easy to find or don't work very intuitively. My request is to have SIMPLE TRANSFORM AND SELECTION ICONS somewhere in the upper toolbar...just like Max and other 3D applications.
Perhaps right next to the navigation and lighting controls. I cannot emphasize enough, having to find the simplest of tools buried somewhere in a menu and then trying to figure exactly how they work, is frustrating for anyone new to program. Can you PLEASE (using Max as an example) employ the standard QWER convention, so people from other applications can dive in without all the aggravation? And PLEASE make these available in each (applicable) room, so it's uniform throughout the entire workflow.
We should be able to easily click the icon or keyboard shortcut to select an object....AND DELETE IT WHEN WE HIT THE DELETE KEY. This is so simple, any other means is not only unintuitive, but unnecessary.
Thanks.
Q _Select
W_Move
E_Rotate
R_Scale
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Isn't that Obama's Treasury Secretary....gobbling up all the banks and Corporations (Citibank, GM, Chrysler, etc)?Looks like The Taxman!
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Yeah...it's a bit awkward, but I've just been keeping my cursor as the axis (Andrew brought this up, so I've stuck with it). It takes some getting used to, but I get to where I don't even have to think about it after a while. I do wish Andrew would take your advice on this, though. I'm really intrigued by the prospect of rotating the object with one hand (Space Pilot) and sculpting with force feedback in the other. If Andrew can coordinate with the folks at Novint to where they could mount a Wacom stylus to it, and he can include support for it in the near future...I could see him getting some free air time on G4. It doesn't get more geeky than that
Think of how threatened the folks at Clay Tools would be with that.
Thanks for all of the tutorials BTW...I'm new to sculpting and that's a really informative facial muscle anatomy lesson...as well as technique.
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Yeah...it's a bit awkward, but I've just been keeping my cursor as the axis (Andrew brought this up, so I've stuck with it). It takes some getting used to, but I get to where I don't even have to think about it after a while. I do wish Andrew would take your advice on this, though. I'm really intrigued by the prospect of rotating the object with one hand (Space Pilot) and sculpting with force feedback in the other. If Andrew can coordinate with the folks at Novint to where they could mount a Wacom stylus to it, and he can include support for it in the near future...I could see him getting some free air time on G4. It doesn't get more geeky than thatYes I have a SpacePilot also, but do you not find the axis of rotation a problem here in 3d coat? I have posted my findings with a small video somewhere here on the forum requesting that rotation be locked to the Y axis of world space, Unfortunately I like most users of the Connexion device find it more intuitive if the controller rotates the world space around Y, currently it rotattes the viewport Y meaning any time saving that the 3d connexion device offers is outweighed by the fact that I have to spend most of my time re-centering the piece I'm working on. Not the way it should be implimented!!! Simply locking rotation the same as normal navigation in 3D Coat would correct this and make the implementation usable.I was tempted by the Novint but I am also looking at a Phantom Omni from Sansable. As the open haptics sdk is included. but i also really like the clay tools package. Now my funds are a bit happier (Clients finally paid up in full) I can consider my options. The price is a little too steep currently i may see what I can wangle, do some dealing. I just love the idea of using the haptics device to draw out voxels I think it would just be so fast and controllable.
Think of how threatened the folks at Clay Tools would be with that.
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Yeah...the Novint Falcon is pretty affordable, so folks could get one with 3DC, a used 3DConnexion SpacePilot (just bought one a while back and I love it) and it would still be cheaper than ZBrush or Mudbox.If we could get this working with Haptics you could true sculpt Muscles in one motion that would be so cool. Exciting possibillity there no?Imagine seeing that at Siggraph or GDC (they have one for Europe also, no?) next year. With a Novint Falcon in your drawing hand, and the SpacePilot in the other (to rotate/navigate....with a host of programable buttons on the pad). Would that not be geeked out or what?
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=n...um=6#ps-sellers
Got one of these on EBay for about $125 USD (extended warranty available for about $15):
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I don't know how much video editing or compositing you do, but if a fair amount, consider a really small (30GB) solid state (you have to shop carefully...some of the older generation controllers don't have any quicker seek times than a standard disc HD...the newer ones have a good amount of cache) for your Page File/Scratch Disk, and then a Raptor HD (or even faster 2 in a RAID 0 config) for your media material (content that you will be using...video files, textures, etc.). Instead of your regular HD getting bottlenecked with multiple calls, and only one spindle to access that data at a time, you can see how "spreading the load" across different HD's can help a good deal. OS, Applications, and storage on you main HD...a page disk completely separate, and a separate Raptor or Raid for quick media content access. If you don't do much compositing or video editing, you can skip the last one...but even Adobe Premiere's own manual suggests a separate RAID for such content.If your looking at a scratch disk then might i reccomend a ssd rather than a standard. Also there is no reason to one quite as large as 100gb A good quality 32 or 64 gb ssd will improve virtual mem performance no end.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820227460
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Again, the 295 model is a dual GPU on one card. It's worth the money ONLY if you play a lot of GPU intensive games. The 2nd GPU on the card gets practically unused in content creation applications like 3DC.Hm, really!?Forgive me for being skeptical, but do you have a screenshot of you sculpting at such an out of this world resolution? I mean... in blender you can only sculpt to about 4 million. So 50 million looks like a lot to me. Or maybe Andrew can comment on how exactly 3dCoat scales?
But yeah that's really great if it's really that way. I'm sorry if I sound skeptical about it so far. And as I've said, If I sculpt to about 9 million on my 8800GT I begin to get uncomfortable lag. Not too much but to the point where there is a .2 second delay on somewhat finer movements of the pen. Generally the higher the resolution the finer the detail so... And at 11 Million I no longer can move the pen with precision while operating on voxels.
But yeah, if 3dCoat scales that well then I probably will get an upgrade. In fact I've already got a vid card from newegg in my checkout menu. Just waiting on a little more confirmation and as I've said if you've got a screenshot that would be some pretty good confirmation in my book. I just want to witness this high of a resolution being used on a practical level. As opposed to just an extreme situation. Even if it "only" gets to 30 million, as opposed to 50, it would justify the price of a new card in my opinion.
thanks for the info!
Now, if Andrew thought that it (SLI/Dual GPU) could be greatly utilized (double CUDA capacity?) and made it work, then maybe that's another distinguishing feature he can offer over the competition. I don't know.
But for now, it's a waste of cash. I was looking to do the same, and could never find evidence that SLI/Multi-GPU's benefits these kinds of applications.
The GTX 275 is perhaps the best sinlge GPU bang for your buck card for creative types. Gamers...ATI cards are in play, but I'm done with ATI for a while. I've got a HD 4850 sitting on the shelf, gathering dust cause it's drivers don't cooperate with Combustion.
Oh, and while I'm at it. Instead of a $600 card, maybe a $300 one and buying a Western Digital Raptor Hard Drive (10,000RPM), and using it for a scratch disk/page file (on one partition, and media files on the other).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16822136322
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GTX 295 may be good if you're really into gaming, on the same machine, but for Content Creation applications, I don't know of any yet that take advantage of the 2nd GPU/SLI.Yes. Right now if I reach 11M triangles in 3dCoat the lag makes it difficult to do anything else after that point. Which is still far better than blender's 4 Million tri ceiling. So I was considering for someone out there who knows, how much better is the 295 vs the 8800GT in 3D Coat?And I have sli hooked up for 2 8800GTs. Will I see any benefit moving from that to a GTX 295? How many triangles can you comfortably sculpt at if you have a 295 thanks.
btw does 3dcoat even take advantage of Sli?
and should i get a 700mb or 1000mb card
You're better served, going the GTX 275 route, IMHO. I bought the GTS 250 1GB VRAM, and everything's working nicely. Pretty sweet price/performance ratio, and you're set for the new OpenGL 3 standard, when that becomes more widely used
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Face it, friend...your post fits the definition of haggling perfectly (complaining/arguing about the end of the introductory pricing), that's why I said it in the first place, and provided the dictionary definition of the word to back up the fact that you indeed were doing just that...haggling the developer over the price. You complained about the price going up $35 (when in reality, $200 was a promotional/introductory price...if you miss it, you just miss it. It's totally up to you whether you care to beat the deadline or not)I never said in this thread that I use Zbrush or MudBox, which I use neither. Second I do agree that for $235 for what 3D Coat does compared to other programs that do exactly the same thing it is a bargain and an excellent program at best and I support the developer.Abn - You mis understood my statement therefore causing you to believe I don't know what the English word haggle means. I don't need someone to tell me what a word means, when first off there there was an assumption that I didn't know what it meant and second even if I didn't that is what I have a dictionary for
I haven't brought 3D Coat, yet. If I had of would I have been asking about the price ?!?!?
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Webster's Dictionary:Where you read Haggling in what I wrote is beyond me. I'm only suggesting if they listen I doubt it but never hurts to put the message out there.haggle- To argue in attempt to bargain or come to terms
It's one thing to ask for certain features you'd like to see, or workflows you think could make the product better, but to come here on the developer's own forum and attempt to dictate what "Fair" pricing would be, is rather ridiculous, in my opinion. "You should...this" or "It would be Smart if..."
It's a fair request to ask for a "paint only," lower-cost version of 3DC, but most everyone here knows that 3DC, as it stands, is extremely affordable for all it offers. And the best feature of 3DC isn't really a feature of the software itself...but the developer. Andrew has been both the fastest developer, and most open to suggestions and feature requests, I've ever encountered. So, what you buy now, isn't going to be the end of the story...not by a long shot.
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But you should agree that increasing of income leads to possibility to involve additional peoples to make some stuff. That happened tit Linux. Just as investment.
Do you think that rate of buxfixing/improving slowed down? The only possible slowdown is 2 weeks of vacation, but not Linux version.
If there were enough users to warrant it being a literal investment, sure....but there's a good reason most software developers don't bother with a Linux version. If you have to take resources from licenses for Win/Mac to offset the cost of developing Linux versions, then it's not an investment, but a liability. Not just to you, the developer, but the customers as well.
If you feel you will get a return on your investment, who am I to argue? It's just from my vantage point, I can't see it. There are some folks making the same request of Newtek for Lightwave. It's all NT can handle just trying to keep the program up to date and keeping the MAC version keep pace with the Windows version. It's not profitable enough for Newtek, so I assume it can't be that beneficial for 3DC. I could be wrong, but you'll have a better idea soon enough, to determine if sufficient Linux licenses are sold to warrant its further development.
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In a simple Cost-Benefit Analysis, it just makes no sense. Google is trying to come out with it's own OS. While that may sound great in theory, it's absurd in practice.I think that it's too soon to talk about closing linux version. It came out just month ago. Give it some time. Maybe there isn't so many linux users out there but there is quite many 3d firms that are usinglinux based systems. I agree that it will slow Andrew with coding and solving all the problems. But I think it will pay off in the future. I'm using houdini with 3d-coat so this is perfect for me!
There's no reason to slow down development and bug squashing, just because a handful of users thinks it's a good idea. I'd much rather Andrew and his team to focus their efforts on improving the software, and bring it's tools up to par with it's competitors. The more fragmented his efforts, the slower the progress. Virtually everyone here asking for a Linux version has either a Windows or MAC OS. That's pretty selfish, folks. It shows no concern for the 99% of us who are perfectly fine with Win/Mac, and want Andrew to press on, and not get bogged down with yet another OS version. Give the guy a break.
It's one thing to request a feature or two, but it's something entirely different to ask someone who works as hard as Andrew, to waste his time building and maintaining a version almost no one needs. And once Andrew has this version ironed out. I'd like to ask him to drop further development on it.
Folks bug Newtek to do the same..when they already have their hands full trying to support Win/Mac. Makes me pretty darned upset. The primary reason I bought into 3DC instead of ZBrush or Mudbox was because of Andrew's speed of development. It's requests like this that are going to negate that advantage...and for that, I feel like my purchase has been hijacked by a few people who ought to know better.
Thanks for being rather gracious, Andrew...but nevertheless, any time spent by you or persons on your team porting and coding for Linux is precious time that could be better spent killing bugs and improving current tools and workflows or developing new ones.What about Linux - it does not slows down development process after making code cross platform. All what I need after porting - just keep some very simple rules (good rules btw, because code becomes more strict and therefore less buggy).And also not me is keeping Linux version updated - it is other guy.
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I guess it's because Windows is such a resource hog....running many more things in the background.The Linux version responsiveness is MUCH faster then windows, I would put it literally between 7-10 times faster. That's just my arbitrary number, of course, but it certainly is much more speedy and responsive when you are brushing voxels and such. It's actually kind of shocking to go from the win to linux versions and see how much faster it is...
The only problem I have with Andrew running a Linux version, is that it's likely going to take longer for overall development, if he has to support 3 different platforms. Linux is such a microscopic fraction of the overall userbase, it's largely a waste of resources, in my opinion...and obviously most software developer's opinion. I'm glad Andrew is open to suggestions, but I strongly feel that a Linux version is not only not in Andrew's best interest, but the entire userbase. This means we practically have to wait longer to get updates and upgrades, when he has to devote resources to gratify the wishes of a tiny number of users.
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You're going to let $35 be the determining factor, as to whether its worth purchasing? Wow. The $200 was an introductory price, and if you missed it, you missed it. No sense trying to haggleI was considering buy 3D Coat within the next month, but now that prices have gone up I will have to pass. It would have been smart if they have of or still do a limited offer of what the upgrade price for the full package for a short while. -
I wish there was something we could do...someone to call, here. I can't understand why they would turn down a software developer that has a booth at a major convention like Siggraph. It's not like you are just some schmuck off the street. They can easily verify your credentials by calling the folks running Siggraph. Too much work for them to do, I guess. Is there any way to contact the one who denied you and point them to this website and the give them the Siggraph contact info? I just can't see them being that callous, when they have an abundance of proof that you are a legitimate businessman on a business trip.
I would contact the folks at Siggraph and see if they can't intervene here or refund your money. You aren't pulling out voluntarily. If you can't get your money back, as an alternative perhaps you can send a representative to run your booth, and broadcast demonstrations (yourself) over the web. Perhaps Javis and maybe Dwayne Ferguson (aka "Wolf") would be good candidates to "handle business" for you.
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As was said before, there are plenty of examples of work for you to see what's been done. Best option for you, it seems, is to use what you know, and maybe check back later...if you know 3DC so well that you KNOW it can't do what you want it to.Your right i am thinking of someone else. Still looking forward to seeing your works where you've used voxel sculpting.If only i had the faith that patience (and a little investment through a purchase) was all that was required. I would probably be able to enjoy it more till Andrew comes back and continues development. You seem to think every shortcoming thats in v3 has to do with the time frame it was developed in. I disagree especially after i read the alpha thread from back to front to refresh my memory. This is probably why i dont think patience is enough.
Nevertheless this bickering that i create is not awfully productive. The fact that wild praise ("it simply works" with no works to show for it) gets on my nerves and gives in my opinion a false image both to Andrew and potential customers is my problem and not yours.
I do enjoy sculpting in voxels and i guess ill just focus on improving my general sculpting skills with the occasional tutorial video as my way of helping 3dcoat along.
Ciao
3dioot
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Please find where you see me offering DVD training or working with Kurv studios. I think you have someone else in mind...Javis (Geothefaust)...While you have a nice showreel on your site i seem to have missed out on all the voxelsculpts you posted on the forum. Surely since you are working on a commercial tutorial dvd set with kurvstudios you would have started voxel sculpting during the alpha and have lots of doodles to show for it? Especially since "it simply works"I'm like many here, still trying to get comfortable with the application, and since the manual hasn't yet caught up with the newest releases, I'm having to largely rely on guys like Javis. Nevertheless, I've used it enough to appreciate its capabilities, and am excited about it...so much so that I'm trying to fit it in on current projects, and am looking forward to showing WIP's like others here.
In the end, have a little patience. Andrew has brought this application from nothing to the point of competing with industry applications like ZB and MB in RECORD-BREAKING time. I hope you can appreciate that.
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Voxel sculpting is intended ONLY to be another OPTION. I don't see it as ever being the core of the application or intended to be separate. It's supposed to an integral part, along with all the other tools...and as such, it simply works.At the moment however 3dcoat's voxel sculpting only lives by the grace of the core feature set of v2 and the added pixel painting. If the voxel sculpting part would have been released as a seperate program the way it is now it would have been dead in the water allready. At the moment voxel sculpting gets a big boost from the integration with the retopo and painting tools. I hope it to become so good that it will be great on its own.Your whole tone here is extremely negative and disparaging, when there is so much to like. There is nothing I can't sculpt, if I wanted to...in it's current state.
Is there room for improvement? Sure....but the application has just taken a major leap forward, and I'm not going to sit here and condemn it for some of the things it doesn't yet have. If you like ZB and MB so very well...spend your time more wisely and go use them. As it stands, 3DC is an extremely good balance between BodyPaint 3D and and ZBrush, and yet offers a few key tools that neither of them offer. Because of that, I'm too excited about what I can do in 3DC TODAY to waste time groaning and moaning about niggly litte things it doesn't yet do, or do quite as well as Mudbox or ZBrush.
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Two things....This is an "Industry First"...and as such, I think andrew really needs to start using this terminology in all of his marketing material, including the website. People like to crowd around when they hear of something NEW and cutting-edge...which voxels are, as well as CUDA support. Otherwise, many potential customers will dismiss it as just a ZBrush or Mudbox knockoff (which they may already have).There are a lot of things I'm really hoping to see with voxels. This is one of them.Once Andrew returns from vacation, I have a list (huge list!) of feature requests that I'll start submitting. Hopefully we'll see voxels become the premiere sculpting solution, in 3D-Coat.
On a sidenote, I truly feel like voxel sculpting is going to cause a paradigm shift with 3D sculpting programs in general... It's like real clay, and is much easier to sculpt and use.
What he really needs to do is to sell WHAT'S DIFFERENT. So, first thing a visitor to the 3DC mainpage should see is "INDUSTRY FIRST"...early and often...in big, bold text.
INDUSTRY FIRST- Voxel Sculpting (subtitle "literal CG Clay, not polygonal mesh)
INDUSTRY FIRST- NVidia CUDA support
INDUSTRY FIRST- 3DConnexion device support
INDUSTRY BEST- Retopology, Paint and UV tools...and perhaps more importantly, most affordable.
This makes is clear from the beginning "Why" a prospective customer should take a closer look at 3DC.
Secondly, I wonder if Andrew has applied for patents regarding Voxel sculpting technology.
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Hey Javis. Thanks again for the free webcast training. Looking forward to the paid one this weekend. Anyhow, someone asked "if they can use Photoshop brushes" during the session. If that topic comes up again, please mention that not only can you use them, but that happens to be one of the little nuggets of goodness that you find in 3DC.I think this is a really good idea. Though we may have to wait for Andrew to get back in town.You can simply copy all your photoshop brushes into the same folder your current 3dc brushes are stored, and load them into the pallet whenever you please. In Mudbox...it's a big pain to try and get all of your brushes into it's library. You have to go and convert each brush to a greyscale TGA or PNG, and then, in order to keep from having to spend all day doing that with each one, you have to set up an applet to do the entire folder. That makes it easier. But 3DC reads Photoshop brush files (.abr), so you don't have to go through all of that mess. Really nice feature, IMO.
Photoshop brushes into Mudbox (takes you seconds to load them into 3dc):
Fix 3D Connexion axis & Q.W.E.R. Convention...
in Feature requests
Posted
It's a bug as far as I'm concerned...not really a feature request. It's a problem we're asking for a resolution to...not an additional feature we'd like to see. Maybe posting the issue in the Bugfix section will get Andrew's attention more quickly.