Just a user
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I see you guys are still working hard on this amazing tool, you added some black magic level of functionality its truly amazing. no other program have this features. personally i dont need them but i can appreciate the innovation.
I came to see how is the development doing, i see that none of my suggestions has been adopted. UI is still divided, modeling room still require two times the clicks to do the same operations compared to maya or blender or modo. still have a separated select tool for some reason and no major tools that are using context sensitive approach.
UI is still designed with a lot of text and its still a major problem in the smart materials workflow
For now I continue with my 2022 version for sculpting and auto retopo, its still amazing for that. i love it.
But I still wont upgrade until the UX will go thru a major makeover. sorry guys .. -
Hey guys. I see in the dev forum that the team has put a lot of effort on fixing bugs. something people requested as the app was not stable.
My upgrade goes about 18 months ago, its the latest version i can use.
I will use the app for:
1. sculpt cartoon environments (loved the sculpt even 18 months ago absolutely amazing)
2. using only auto retopo and auto uv - Are they working fine now without crashes and bugs?
3 . send that to substance painter as fast as possible
How much does the stability improved? i know that auto retopo was not very stable back then for me, and also uvs was not great ...
Should i upgrade for those areas? -
I have seen the development thread and i see a lot of effort on the bug fixing, and less on nee features - i think this is great.
In my opinion prioritizing bug fixing is a step in the right direction. personally if this continue and 3Dcoat become more stable i might upgrade this year again, after ill see its more bout fixing. because i know other things like restructure the UX takes much more work and need support from the users.
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Seem like my suggestions ignored and not even got a respond from team. that is fine. AI in 3D is close and the landscape will change a lot, i hope you guys will adopt and accept other ways to implement things.
I wish the team here all the best-
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I think that at this point the team is not seeing that the potential of 3D coat to become as major as zbrush is not in adding more features, but to make it stable fluid and accessible to new users.
I made 4 people in my community to try 3dcoat demo back in 2022 after a already buy it. none of them buy it as well. they tried, but learning from a 720p tutorial with heavy russian accent is just too hard nowadays, when the user knows he can pop into free blender, and on youtube, blender guru show you how to model a donut in a very simple way. the avarage user need this more far more then he needs super advanced voxel high res painting tools. (they are cool tho, dont get me wrong).
yes 3dcoat have a monster engine under the hood which put blender to shame in that area, but how does it help if the average person cant have enough momentum with the program in order to adopt it, because if the reasons mentioned above.
I was modeling with lightwave,xsi,maya,3dsmax,modo and a little blender in the past 17 years. i have a good grasp of what is a fluid workflow. Again - if you want my constant help to design new UX i would love to do so.-
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Well, let me start of by saying you guys are one of the most talented developers in the entire 3D software space by my opinion, and you are working hard for sure..
The goal of this post is to give my honest opinion - a client that actually want you to be an alternative the entire modeling uv and painting process. (right now i have to use maya for modeling and substance for painting and i would LOVE to use 3dcoat for it instead).
3dcoat does provide many "9\10" tools in on package. no other modeling software packed so much good algorithms in one product. but also, its one of the worse UX and buggy tools in the market .
And tbh the price for the upgrade is very good.no complain about it. i actually think its kind of cheap for the tools you are getting.
i was posting before about modeling room problems in depth, and all my modeling issues can be found here:The reason i don't upgrade is the UX and bugs. i can go in much more depth, and offer the team my help in that area, but this is my summery
1. in addition to my modelling suggestions above, i strongly believe that sculpt, retopo, modeling and uv should be combined into one space. you need to rethink how people are interacting with the tools you already made.
2. you can takes modo's modeling as reference. its still the best out there in sub-d. 3d coat modelling should be fluid like it (or like maya's). for example, why u need a select tool if u are already in modeling room ? why u need an entire tool to select a path? why no fast way to snap a pivot to vertex? etc.. many small things that make the UX bad. i was expecting one smart tool that is context sensitive, like XSI magnet for example, or maya's slide tool etc. if you already have an entire room just for that, you tools should be super efficient and fluid, not split to so many different ones.
3. modeling and sculpting should communicate fluidly. no separated rooms. find a way to redesign the software that it give the user all modeling and sculpting tools in one space. with one layering system. all this importing between rooms is just a mess in my personal opinion. u can have a layer tree with colors, green for sub-d and white for voxels for examples, and they communicate in same room. You pick a tool, if that tool can logically use on both types of surfaces it will. i made that up right now in 3 sec. u can think it better solutions in meetings together. but 2 different rooms must be the worse options in 2023 workflows ..
3. redesign the UI for smart materials. right now its very unreadable, not pleasant to use. so much text and lines in small space. please look at competitors and rethink this.
4. please add the option to mix smart materials and then save them as a new one. its the only reason for me to pay for substance right now and not using 3dc. smart material is good. but if i cant break their structure in order to make custom ones its not really helpful in a big project like a game when u want to create your own libraries of special stuff. (you already told me 2 times on fb its not possible right now)
5. please hire a proper instructor and make professional tutorial series about everything, the software is very powerful, but also UX is bad. bad ux with few learning materials = less users = less income = we all lose
6. bugs. i just cant trust the software to run under stressful use across all tools. every new release introduces new bugs. please stop making new features and fix most bugs ... its more important to have a relatively stable app that is reliable then have a software with a little more features.
7. please add a public development roadmap. I cant be your client if i don't know where does the development navigate of the tool i relay on
i think those are the main problems in 3dc. and for me the reasons why i can't upgrade. the UX and the lack of fluidity in = all rooms, the bugs across the platform.
Please change the rooms mindset, its an old approach to do things. it makes sense if the usage is very different like paint and model rooms. but model retopo and sculpt can be combine into one room if rethinking layers and presentation to user.
With that said, i think you guys are amazing hard working team, and hope you take those suggestions as constructive ones. if i would not care, i simply go Zbrush and not post. but i do care so i decided to post that one.
Hope i could upgrade 3dc in the future. right now i use the aug2022 version which is my last paid upgrade, i only use it for sculpt.-
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12 minutes ago, gbball said:
Thanks for the responses.
I think one of the cool things about 3D Coat is the innovative solutions to different problems. In some cases the solutions weren't copies of other tools, but instead a new and sometimes better way of achieving a similar goal.
So I think rather than us asking for @AndrewShpagin and the team to copy this programs solution or this other program's way of doing things, we could instead make arguments for how and why a particular adjustment or tweak would align with certain principles that guide the development of the software.
For example...this requestAligns with this principle.
I expect that 3D Coat will keep adding innovative new features. But I also think that the tool is a mature enough point that certain principles can be implemented to make the overall program more cohesive and easier to work with.
With the new Core API, I wonder how much of this can be done aside from the main development team.
@haikallewas doing some cool work to optimize tools in the retopo room at one point. I wonder if the current scripting functionality exposes that same level of power to the user. If given enough customization capabilities, we could develop advanced tools and optimize workflows ourselves.Wise words indeed
I Suggested to copy Maya's modelling user experience because 3dcoatu are small team, and taking a reference of something that is working great is not a bad thing for them. it will allow them to continue focus on the sculpting tools that is the main area of the program, while still delivering good modeling solution without months of UX development that is very hard to do.-
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I think this team is amazing, so much talent and hard work
That said, the Modeling room is in a bad shape right now by my opinion.
Just copy maya modeling tools to the smallest resolution. they nailed UX-wise.
If you dont know maya's modeling ill be happy to help you and show you the tools and how easy they made them for the user.
Blender is also ok, but maya is simply great. second only to modo's tools.
QuoteThank you for all the hard work guys. 3D coat really amazing from the time im using it for sculpting and stuff. I wanted to make 3Dcoat my all modeling sculpting app but i cant right now. this is what the modeling room is missing for me to use it as such:
before everything, please fix all the bugs in all the tools. there are still not a few.
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0. Select with no Select tool (forgot to add this)
A. no matter if you use rectangle to select or brush, when you press hotkey for points/edges/polygons it should just allow you to select right away. going to a select tool for that is an unnecessary click. and it makes the experience not fluid
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Tools behavior - design them so fast modelers can use.
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1. Rectangle Lasso should behave as a selection tool not as modeling tool:
A. should always work if you drag it in the background no matter what tool you are using right now (if a transform tool is active and user drag it outside the model, so it drag a rectangle not move things)B. should have the option to have it as default
C. with the exception of knife tool or a tool that need the background
D. with select/transform tool it does happen, BUT, if you go to another tool then there is no more rectangle selection. you need to pick it, and that is not good. user should always have the rectangle selection when pressing the background
E. keep ctrl+D for deselect, but Add behavior that if a user press in the background it will deselect everything like in most modeling apps.
F. Add the option in preferences, that pressing on the rectangle lasso tool will cancel any tool currently selected
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2.More intuitive free moving / free rotate / scale toolA. have pivot like maya when you press a hotkey, and then press on anything else, and the gizmo axis will snap to that point / edge / polygon AND inherit its normal direction into the axis.
B. Be able to do the pivot with snap.
C. Expose the options to set the axis to global/ local /gimbal /normal direction. so we can add a hotkey to that.
C1(forgot). Expose the options to set the position of the axis to selection center/ bounding box /else. so we can add a hotkey to that. and in the preferences add the options for the user to decide if he/she wants to have the axis automatically jump to the center of a new selection.
D. free rotate - make the visual circle axis around the entire thing, not on the tips. will be easier to grab.
E. Free moving / scaling - should have visual indicator to use 2 AXIS without the user switching to a orthographic view and use the center.
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--
3. Add basic Modeling brushes
A. Relax brush - relaxes the vertices without changing the surface too much like in maya
B Smooth brush - Smooth the vertices
C - Move brush - like in the sculpt room. with an option to move the things by their normal direction
D. keep the existing relax tool, but change it to real time representation with an apply button. for less distractive use that does not need ctrl + Z
--
--
4. Add snap like in other modeling application
A. you have a hotkey to snap the mouse curses with any tool u are using right now to:
- verticies of current mesh or other
- 3d / 2d grid
- bounding box center
- edges
- polygons
- pivots
--
--
5. Fix the symmetry tool.
A. Improve it to never lose a perfect symmetry unless the use change the model while its turned off.
B make it work with ANY thing you throw at it as long you are in symmetry mode and not logically do things that are impossible like touching the mid point
--
--
6. Add soft selection (maya) / proportional modeling (blender)
A. look how they implemented it in maya and blender. both are great.
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7. Convert select path into shortcut
A. Look at blender's solution, you click at one point, and then CTRL + click another point, and its working. you don't need to pick a tool just for that.
But you can keep the tool, i guess some people want to have it.
--
8. Push split rings even better
A. Add the option like in maya "Insert edge with flow". that a new ring till respect the curvature. so if you add it to an arc, it till move to match itself to the angle after it is created (look how it works in maya)
B, add the option to create more then 1 with even spaces between them. blender's solution is to move the mouse wheel while the tool is active. its really good by my opinion.
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9. None destructive subdivide
A. Add the option to turn on and off subdivision like in all other modeling apps. and keep the current option of course, when a user want to commit to it
--
Thank you for reading, and thank you for all the hard work and listening to the community.
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Hi guys. can you please make tutorial series about programing tools to 3D coat?
Basic transforms tool modifications and simple things will be great to begin with.
ill start working in this list my self:On 1/22/2022 at 5:09 PM, Just a user said:Thank you for all the hard work guys. 3D coat really amazing from the time im using it for sculpting and stuff. I wanted to make 3Dcoat my all modeling sculpting app but i cant right now. this is what the modeling room is missing for me to use it as such:
before everything, please fix all the bugs in all the tools. there are still not a few.
--------------------
0. Select with no Select tool (forgot to add this)
A. no matter if you use rectangle to select or brush, when you press hotkey for points/edges/polygons it should just allow you to select right away. going to a select tool for that is an unnecessary click. and it makes the experience not fluid
--------------------------
Tools behavior - design them so fast modelers can use.
--
1. Rectangle Lasso should behave as a selection tool not as modeling tool:
A. should always work if you drag it in the background no matter what tool you are using right now (if a transform tool is active and user drag it outside the model, so it drag a rectangle not move things)B. should have the option to have it as default
C. with the exception of knife tool or a tool that need the background
D. with select/transform tool it does happen, BUT, if you go to another tool then there is no more rectangle selection. you need to pick it, and that is not good. user should always have the rectangle selection when pressing the background
E. keep ctrl+D for deselect, but Add behavior that if a user press in the background it will deselect everything like in most modeling apps.
F. Add the option in preferences, that pressing on the rectangle lasso tool will cancel any tool currently selected
--
--
2.More intuitive free moving / free rotate / scale toolA. have pivot like maya when you press a hotkey, and then press on anything else, and the gizmo axis will snap to that point / edge / polygon AND inherit its normal direction into the axis.
B. Be able to do the pivot with snap.
C. Expose the options to set the axis to global/ local /gimbal /normal direction. so we can add a hotkey to that.
C1(forgot). Expose the options to set the position of the axis to selection center/ bounding box /else. so we can add a hotkey to that. and in the preferences add the options for the user to decide if he/she wants to have the axis automatically jump to the center of a new selection.
D. free rotate - make the visual circle axis around the entire thing, not on the tips. will be easier to grab.
E. Free moving / scaling - should have visual indicator to use 2 AXIS without the user switching to a orthographic view and use the center.
--
--
3. Add basic Modeling brushes
A. Relax brush - relaxes the vertices without changing the surface too much like in maya
B Smooth brush - Smooth the vertices
C - Move brush - like in the sculpt room. with an option to move the things by their normal direction
D. keep the existing relax tool, but change it to real time representation with an apply button. for less distractive use that does not need ctrl + Z
--
--
4. Add snap like in other modeling application
A. you have a hotkey to snap the mouse curses with any tool u are using right now to:
- verticies of current mesh or other
- 3d / 2d grid
- bounding box center
- edges
- polygons
- pivots
--
--
5. Fix the symmetry tool.
A. Improve it to never lose a perfect symmetry unless the use change the model while its turned off.
B make it work with ANY thing you throw at it as long you are in symmetry mode and not logically do things that are impossible like touching the mid point
--
--
6. Add soft selection (maya) / proportional modeling (blender)
A. look how they implemented it in maya and blender. both are great.
--
--
7. Convert select path into shortcut
A. Look at blender's solution, you click at one point, and then CTRL + click another point, and its working. you don't need to pick a tool just for that.
But you can keep the tool, i guess some people want to have it.
--
8. Push split rings even better
A. Add the option like in maya "Insert edge with flow". that a new ring till respect the curvature. so if you add it to an arc, it till move to match itself to the angle after it is created (look how it works in maya)
B, add the option to create more then 1 with even spaces between them. blender's solution is to move the mouse wheel while the tool is active. its really good by my opinion.
--
--
9. None destructive subdivide
A. Add the option to turn on and off subdivision like in all other modeling apps. and keep the current option of course, when a user want to commit to it
--
Thank you for reading, and thank you for all the hard work and listening to the community.
-
2 hours ago, AbnRanger said:
Actually, the Select tool is not really a TOOL, but more of a MODE.
Yap,
But the entire room is a MODE, for that goal. The select tool/mode is like an unneeded additional layer between my object and me. another click that is unnecessary. because we select a lot in the process of modeling, this one click is actually meaningful in a bad way.
And thank you for reading all my suggestion. i wrote an entire page about many more core suggestions for the UX of the modeling room. i am very excited about the development of that room. -
Great work guys !
Can you please push up the feature request of selecting UX?
Disabling the select tool and delete it from the modeling room please.
the modeling room is the select tool. the entire room is modelling room, please have it that we are always able to select one of the 3 components depand on the last mode we chose.EXAMPEL:
so if i am setting hotkeys:
1 for points
2 for edges
3 for polygons
no matter what im doing, or what tool is currently active, if i press 1 i can select points. and it will remember the last points selection i had.
Now, after pressing 1, if i press W for move tool, i am still on points mode, but my move tool is active. if i press 2 the move tool is still active but i can now select edges. if i press q for marquee selection the edges are still active but now instead of move tool i have marquee selection. but can still select individuals with SHIFT.
Have it understand that if 0 components are selected it will move the entire layer like an object.
and please please, add the default behavior that if we press on the background it deselect anything. keep the ctrl+d for those who like it better.
please, this thing i just wrote will make the entire modeling process 2-3 times easier.
Thank you very much for all the effort, and stay safe guys.-
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Keep safe Andrew
great work -
Quote
- The Tools Free Move is improved. After snapping to a polygon, Gizmo automatically inherits that polygon's normal direction.
yesssss
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8 hours ago, Gorbatovsky said:
Implemented today.
Already testingthank you so much !
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i see that the move tool is snapping to a polygon if pressing on it, is it possible to have it automatically inherit that polygon's normal direction ?
It was one of the things i wrote in the long list of modeling improvements
Amazing work guys, thank you -
And take care
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hey guys
I know to program in C# ( a little rusty but i can refresh my memory)
The writing is done in C++ ?
Is there documentation about the functions and everything ? (did not installed V7 yet) -
11 hours ago, Carlosan said:
Hi
Send any support-related questions, feature requests at
support@pilgway.comThanks
thank you i did
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Hi guys, very important for me to know the direction of the development of this area of 3d coat
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On 2/14/2022 at 6:05 PM, Carlosan said:
Are you using 2022.05 ?
no, i was using 2021.92
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They have color if u try to edit them, but they dont show it.tried to open older 3dcoat it worked, and then loaded the scene from there, and then they also became dark in all scenes
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38 minutes ago, Silas Merlin said:
When you simplify, you remove functionalities.
Blender's solution seems to be to hide functions within panels that are themselves hidden until you meet the right conditions and even then you need to find a tiny icon that is not obvious. To me that is a horrible solution.
3d-Coat also has a few tools in retopo room that are hidden from the left panel until you select the corresponding tool. To me that is a mistake. The solution of having tool-specific functions in the tool options panel like in the rest of 3d-coat is much better in my opinion.
There was a time when tools and buttons were simply greyed out in a software's UI until the right conditions were met. That was an ideal solution to me.
French translation is only partial and yes it makes it more difficult both for the user to learn and to teach them. But then again it is a choice for the user.
maybe it would help a little bit if the english name of each tool was written at the top of hover tips ?4 hours ago, ludo_si said:3dcoat is messy. too many icons, too many duplicate similar functions, many functions found several times in menus. it makes the software cumbersome to use.
more than 80 icons on the left for voxels. it's too much. I am convinced that the software would benefit from it being better tidied up. you can customize, but when you want to reinstall a new version, the layout is added to the new page. and it must be said, there are a lot of icons that we almost used. the next functions, that will make even more icons and even more menus?sometimes the translations in French are more incomprehensible than in English. often, I wonder if I will not use the software in English instead of French. we gain in ease of use when it's simplified better than when there are a ton of functions in all directions
I know you can make your own room for yourself but removing what is duplicated or doesn't change anything is not a bad idea
unless the goal is to have functions or icons to give the impression that there are always more functions than among competitors...
comfort of use is important
too many examples that are useless and do not make you want to... there are some everywhere in the software.
this is from the opening, we immediately understand that it will be heavy.I say it because it would be really good to do it lightly. it's because zbrush is heavy that I chose 3dcoat. now, where is the difference?
Guys, you are right to some degree, but in the end, no UI can reflect functionality without hurting your eyes, some do it better then others.
In all the apps i deeply learn - I learn all hot keys and hide 80% of the panels. "expert mode", large viewport in the middle and all is hidden, this is the only solution, there is no way around it in my opinion.
The detailed description on hover tools was a lot of help to me and still is, as i am still learning the app.
I do agree about the duplicated icons, that should be address immediately. very confusing.
Created my first hotkeys in the "space" quick menu, tried to drag and drop them into the numbers. had to read each one to know its the right name because of duplicated icons.-
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Hi guys, thank you for the amazing work you are doing with 3dcoat. i use it for sculpting and its awesome. keep up the bugs fixing in sculpting its really awesome software.
3 weeks ago i posted a request of many improvements for the model room, that by my opinion will make it actually useable for all sub - d modelling needs. the goal of this post is to know of if you have decided to make them, and if so, when do you plan to implement them ?
It is important to me to know because of 2 reasons:
1) If it will be soon in a few weeks i can try to manage with the current tools. but if that is in a few months or a year i will have to keep a sub to a modeling tool
2) i have 2 learning groups one with 2715 members and one with 226 members (one is unreal focused and the other is generally 3d )I want to create a complete course to 3d and use 3dcoat as the main model UV and sculpt tool. and i need it to have all those improvements in order to teach it without entering to an addition modeling software.
Thank you for reading, and i hope to get clearance about the future of this part of 3dcoat
On 1/22/2022 at 5:09 PM, Just a user said:Thank you for all the hard work guys. 3D coat really amazing from the time im using it for sculpting and stuff. I wanted to make 3Dcoat my all modeling sculpting app but i cant right now. this is what the modeling room is missing for me to use it as such:
before everything, please fix all the bugs in all the tools. there are still not a few.
--------------------
0. Select with no Select tool (forgot to add this)
A. no matter if you use rectangle to select or brush, when you press hotkey for points/edges/polygons it should just allow you to select right away. going to a select tool for that is an unnecessary click. and it makes the experience not fluid
--------------------------
Tools behavior - design them so fast modelers can use.
--
1. Rectangle Lasso should behave as a selection tool not as modeling tool:
A. should always work if you drag it in the background no matter what tool you are using right now (if a transform tool is active and user drag it outside the model, so it drag a rectangle not move things)B. should have the option to have it as default
C. with the exception of knife tool or a tool that need the background
D. with select/transform tool it does happen, BUT, if you go to another tool then there is no more rectangle selection. you need to pick it, and that is not good. user should always have the rectangle selection when pressing the background
E. keep ctrl+D for deselect, but Add behavior that if a user press in the background it will deselect everything like in most modeling apps.
F. Add the option in preferences, that pressing on the rectangle lasso tool will cancel any tool currently selected
--
--
2.More intuitive free moving / free rotate / scale toolA. have pivot like maya when you press a hotkey, and then press on anything else, and the gizmo axis will snap to that point / edge / polygon AND inherit its normal direction into the axis.
B. Be able to do the pivot with snap.
C. Expose the options to set the axis to global/ local /gimbal /normal direction. so we can add a hotkey to that.
C1(forgot). Expose the options to set the position of the axis to selection center/ bounding box /else. so we can add a hotkey to that. and in the preferences add the options for the user to decide if he/she wants to have the axis automatically jump to the center of a new selection.
D. free rotate - make the visual circle axis around the entire thing, not on the tips. will be easier to grab.
E. Free moving / scaling - should have visual indicator to use 2 AXIS without the user switching to a orthographic view and use the center.
--
--
3. Add basic Modeling brushes
A. Relax brush - relaxes the vertices without changing the surface too much like in maya
B Smooth brush - Smooth the vertices
C - Move brush - like in the sculpt room. with an option to move the things by their normal direction
D. keep the existing relax tool, but change it to real time representation with an apply button. for less distractive use that does not need ctrl + Z
--
--
4. Add snap like in other modeling application
A. you have a hotkey to snap the mouse curses with any tool u are using right now to:
- verticies of current mesh or other
- 3d / 2d grid
- bounding box center
- edges
- polygons
- pivots
--
--
5. Fix the symmetry tool.
A. Improve it to never lose a perfect symmetry unless the use change the model while its turned off.
B make it work with ANY thing you throw at it as long you are in symmetry mode and not logically do things that are impossible like touching the mid point
--
--
6. Add soft selection (maya) / proportional modeling (blender)
A. look how they implemented it in maya and blender. both are great.
--
--
7. Convert select path into shortcut
A. Look at blender's solution, you click at one point, and then CTRL + click another point, and its working. you don't need to pick a tool just for that.
But you can keep the tool, i guess some people want to have it.
--
8. Push split rings even better
A. Add the option like in maya "Insert edge with flow". that a new ring till respect the curvature. so if you add it to an arc, it till move to match itself to the angle after it is created (look how it works in maya)
B, add the option to create more then 1 with even spaces between them. blender's solution is to move the mouse wheel while the tool is active. its really good by my opinion.
--
--
9. None destructive subdivide
A. Add the option to turn on and off subdivision like in all other modeling apps. and keep the current option of course, when a user want to commit to it
--
Thank you for reading, and thank you for all the hard work and listening to the community.
-
On 2/7/2022 at 5:23 PM, AbnRanger said:
I believe that Blender Applink series goes through the use of the Bake Settings Dialog, and you can use a brush to tweak spots where it's not extruding enough, although the rest of the mesh is. By default, you can just use your brush to pull vertices along the normals...so on the inner cage, the normals are pointing inward. On the outer cage, they are pointing outward. Holding CTRL will invert this action on the fly.
Thanks,
I see the brush can only pull / push on normal direction without direct control on the cage, but in this case some of them are getting into each other, and i need manual control
Reasons why i don't upgrade this year
in New Releases, Bugs Reports & Development Discussion
Posted
I explained that in depth in the main post and in the attached thread