My impression about topology tools.

[Mantis]

I am currently retopologizing a head to test these tools deeper.

And I think that you can reduce the number of buttons and by this you will reduce the number of click and fasten the process.

You could regroup the current buttons like this:

Edit Polygon (It should be the default tool, you got it when you enter in Topology mode):

Allow you to create polygon by using left click on a surface and edit polygon, by left clicking on vertices to create a polygon with the actual 2-click method, and left clicking on an edge to create with the actual Parallel, trapezoid and direct mode.

You don't need to separate Add polygon and add quad, because only 2 clicks allow you to create quads, more allow you to create Ngons.

-Split Edge:shift left click on an edge, ctrl+shift+left click on an edge to use edgering. (by the way when you want to use split edgering and you do the hotkey combo, it activate the actual split edge ring, so you have to do an other clic to create your edgeloop).

-Delete component: shift+right click on a component to delete it, and maybe ctrl+shift+right click to delete an edgeloop, ctrl+alt+right click to delete an edgering or simple being able to tick between delete edgeloop and edgering like it is actually, if none are ticked you simply delete an edge.

-Tweak: Middle click to move a component, ctrl+left click to Tweak with brush.

Edit Polygon should include the rollout menu that you found in add quad to select the creation mode

You should also got the same option as with the Tweak vertices button: You can choose which component you want to edit.

This option will have effect on Delete component and Tweak.

And for sure snap force.

(All the function above are linked to Edit polygon, they are enabled by a combination of hotkey).

Slide edge:

-Be able to slide a single edge or an edgeloop by using shift or ctrl.

Collapse edge

Draw stroke

(These function should be disable while right clicking so you can return in Edit Polygon, the default retopology tool.)

So you reduce the actual 10 buttons by 4 buttons, and with one main button who got the main tools easily accessible.

Let me know what you think about it.

An other thing, the ball that you see when you put your mouse over a vertex seems to got their size related to the object and not to the screen.

So they can become really little if you are too far away from your object or too big if you are too close.

And when I try to move vertices they doesn't stick to my cursor, especially if I am moving them around an area like the bridge of the nose. Same thing with edges.

If I do the same with a face they doesn't keep they shape.

I think that's all.

Edit: This post was done while using beta 2.10 not 2.10 Beta 2

[Mantis]

Still playing with the topology tools.

I was testing the draw tool and I have to admit that I found it a bit messy.

The spline doesn't seems to fit really well to the job, it is not really precise especially when you draw curve with great angle.

You have to have an important amount of dot to make them more accurate, and these dots are not really usefull when drawing and it contributes to make the model messy.

I've found it hard to continue a stroke.

Topogun drawing tool are better for the drawing feeling like you can see on its video.

What is great with spline is that you can move them after you create them.

But what could be really nice is to really draw, like you could do with a brush, be able to erase part of lines, continue previous stroke easily.

And having the ability to preview the result with a toggle hotkey.

Maybe I don't know how to use it well but I found that it has difficult to create ngon, if you are drawing intentionally Ngon it doesn't seems to compute them.

An other useful feature while you are doing a topology is a transparency mode, I didn't find any, because sometime polygons are under the surface of the mesh.

I have done a quick topology drawing with the paint tool in 3Dcoat and it was really fast, probably took me less than 10min.

So here is a basic layout that I do while retopologizing, I use the draw tool as draft tool to layount my main loop and then I prefer to use polygon tool because it's faster after this step than drawing every line.

I keep Ngon to complete them later, I'm focusing on edgeloop at this stage.

I hope you don't mind if I'm doing these crits, don't hesitate to tell me if it was the case.

[Andrew Shpagin]

Thanks for deep review and testing! What about stability?

Edit Polygon (It should be the default tool, you got it when you enter in Topology mode):

Allow you to create polygon by using left click on a surface and edit polygon, by left clicking on vertices to create a polygon with the actual 2-click method, and left clicking on an edge to create with the actual Parallel, trapezoid and direct mode.

But Edit polygon has some important functionality when you click on edge - cut edge and connect with other edge/vertex. So I don't see that Edit polygon and add quads can be place in one button...

You don't need to separate Add polygon and add quad, because only 2 clicks allow you to create quads, more allow you to create Ngons.

I know that 2 click maint quad. But if you wnt to make N-gons with N-2 click how I will get to know what click will be last (and I must create N-gon now)?

-Split Edge:shift left click on an edge, ctrl+shift+left click on an edge to use edgering. (by the way when you want to use split edgering and you do the hotkey combo, it activate the actual split edge ring, so you have to do an other clic to create your edgeloop).

-Delete component: shift+right click on a component to delete it, and maybe ctrl+shift+right click to delete an edgeloop, ctrl+alt+right click to delete an edgering or simple being able to tick between delete edgeloop and edgering like it is actually, if none are ticked you simply delete an edge.

Really delete components by click should be grouped in one button. But I am not sure that complex keys combinations will be user friendly. Also, element to be deleted should be highlighted othervice user will nut undersstan what will happen after click. And what about collapse?

-Tweak: Middle click to move a component, ctrl+left click to Tweak with brush.

The problem is that user will not find that possibility if there will not be separate button... But maybe it has some reason. Really 2 tweak buttons are redundant.

I am almost agree

Slide edge:

-Be able to slide a single edge or an edgeloop by using shift or ctrl.

agree, but checker "Edge loop" should stay there

Collapse edge

Draw stroke

(These function should be disable while right clicking so you can return in Edit Polygon, the default retopology tool.)

not understood.

An other thing, the ball that you see when you put your mouse over a vertex seems to got their size related to the object and not to the screen.

So they can become really little if you are too far away from your object or too big if you are too close.

Already fixed

And when I try to move vertices they doesn't stick to my cursor, especially if I am moving them around an area like the bridge of the nose. Same thing with edges.

ok, I will look.

If I do the same with a face they doesn't keep they shape.

Not easy to fix because surface is curve and preserving could be done only in some projection...

Thanks for great help!

[Andrew Shpagin]

I was testing the draw tool and I have to admit that I found it a bit messy.

The spline doesn't seems to fit really well to the job, it is not really precise especially when you draw curve with great angle.

You have to have an important amount of dot to make them more accurate, and these dots are not really usefull when drawing and it contributes to make the model messy.

You can try to increase spline density.

I've found it hard to continue a stroke.

Small snap distance? Have you used CTRL+click?

Topogun drawing tool are better for the drawing feeling like you can see on its video.

Preciseness of curve?

But what could be really nice is to really draw, like you could do with a brush, be able to erase part of lines, continue previous stroke easily.

Agree, I had it in plans but I had a thought - does anyone needs it?

And having the ability to preview the result with a toggle hotkey.

ENTER, CTRL+Z

Maybe I don't know how to use it well but I found that it has difficult to create ngon, if you are drawing intentionally Ngon it doesn't seems to compute them.

I have set that no more then 5-gon can be created with draw tool. Does topogun creates N-Gon?

An other useful feature while you are doing a topology is a transparency mode, I didn't find any, because sometime polygons are under the surface of the mesh.

It really should be improved.

Thanks!

[Mantis]

Thanks for deep review and testing! What about stability?

Nothing to say for the moment about stability, it's perfect, especially when you use import big mesh, I'm really impressed by the quality of the mesh it produce and the time it take to do so.

But Edit polygon has some important functionality when you click on edge - cut edge and connect with other edge/vertex. So I don't see that Edit polygon and add quads can be place in one button...

I know that 2 click maint quad. But if you wnt to make N-gons with N-2 click how I will get to know what click will be last (and I must create N-gon now)?

Really delete components by click should be grouped in one button. But I am not sure that complex keys combinations will be user friendly. Also, element to be deleted should be highlighted othervice user will nut undersstan what will happen after click. And what about collapse?Thank you Andrew, you spotted good points.

But Edit polygon has some important functionality when you click on edge - cut edge and connect with other edge/vertex. So I don't see that Edit polygon and add quads can be place in one button...

I know that 2 click maint quad. But if you wnt to make N-gons with N-2 click how I will get to know what click will be last (and I must create N-gon now)?

I understand what you mean by not separating Add Poly and Add Quad.

But I think they can be grouped, if you just add a N-click menu.

Like that by Default the Nclick menu is selected, and you can create any shape you want on an empty area, if you want to make a Quad you just have to close the shape by clicking on the first vertex.

And for the function of Edit poly, that's what I meant by writting -Split Edge:

(Edit Poly:

-Split Edge

-Delete and so on) meant that there is one main button who is Edit Poly, and the following function are linked to it, and you can activate it by a hotkey combo.

So you still have the ability to cut and connect by hitting Shift+Left click, that's exactly the same thing as actual, but I added the Shift button to be able to use left click alone to create polygons.

So you got Edit Poly and 2 rollout button for polygon creation, one who let you choose between Nclik or 2-click, the other who let you choose between Trapezoid, parallel, Direct.

And left clicking on a vertex let you create polygons from Nclick or 2-click function, and left clicking on an edge let you create polygon from Trapezoid parallel and direct function. I hope that's clear.

For the delete component I know that it can seems a hard key combination, that's why I propose also to tick between Edgeloop and EdgeRing, that will be easier for sure, and highlighting the component is a great idea.

For Tweak, if you write the hotkey on the bottom bar like every button it will be enough, you don't think?

For collapse I didn't find anything to change

But when you use right click you leave this mode, that's not a mode you use as a main tool so that's what I meant by Collapse edge

(These function should be disable while right clicking so you can return in Edit Polygon, the default retopology tool.)

And when I talked about a default tool, it's because when you enter in topology mode for the moment you don't have any tools activated, so I think that Edit Mode, who is the main tool should be the default tools.

For the face deformation, maybe you can just made them moving along the screen while we are moving them, and reproject them along the surface when you release the mouse. Just a thought.

I was testing the draw tool and I have to admit that I found it a bit messy.

The spline doesn't seems to fit really well to the job, it is not really precise especially when you draw curve with great angle.

You have to have an important amount of dot to make them more accurate, and these dots are not really usefull when drawing and it contributes to make the model messy.

You can try to increase spline density.

That's what I do, and that's what I meant by messy, you got an incredible amount of dot, and when I do ctrl to continue a stroke the amount of dot seems to be much higher than a normal stroke.

Preciseness of curve?

You don't have such a thing, you just draw line and it's really similar than drawing with a pen.

Agree, I had it in plans but I had a thought - does anyone needs it?

Agreed with you, that's just my thoughts and that would be nice to hear other users about that.

ENTER, CTRL+Z

That's what I do but I thought that a toggle key would be simpler, Tab for example.

I have set that no more then 5-gon can be created with draw tool. Does topogun creates N-Gon?

It doesn't create the face but it create the corresponding edge, here it doesn't create anything.

An other thing, I didn't find how to select component, if I want to delete several component I didn't find and other way than passing from Delete mode, just selecting them and press Del would be simpler but I don't know how to do it.

Thank you Andrew.