Member Costanel Posted September 2, 2008 Member Report Share Posted September 2, 2008 Hey there, I've been struggling with displacement maps and Lightwave, everything works except for this. Although I've found tutorials with ZBrush and Lightwave, the results with 3d-coat are not as good somehow(look fat/scrambled/etc). The setup with Zbrush isn't very handy though, so I hope there is a better way. Obviously it depends on the format, the settings and the node setup in Lightwave, but I expect there is an easy, simple way to set it up. I've tried several nodal settings, and export options, but the results were not very good... Does anyone know what a decent setup is for 3d Coat when used with Lightwave, and perhaps create a little tutorial? 3d-coat outputs a number when exporting the displacement maps, can that number be used to get a 1:1 conversion to Lightwave? Exporting high-poly meshes is not really an option(I need to animate it)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 3, 2008 Report Share Posted September 3, 2008 In general 1:1 look can be achieved exporting mid-poly mesh with normalmap, without displacement - standart export. But sometimes it is not enough because displacement can achieve big values, deep carves,... So, you know LW good, I know 3DC good. Please show me how to apply normal displacement in LW and I will try to find a good way how to go with displacement without normalmap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Costanel Posted September 11, 2008 Author Member Report Share Posted September 11, 2008 Took some time, but now for a reply :-): In Lightwave, applying a Displacement Map is normally done with nodes. Attached are a couple of screenshots of the LW-process. One shows the LW-viewport, a render, and the 3d-Coat model. Especially the eyes are different(too small), but in as well the original model as the 3dCoat model these were fine. The 3d-Coat view has a few problems, but this is because a screwed up mesh(poly within mesh). The other shows the node setup, with an image-map(set to UV-map) multiply, substract and scale nodes. This is the normal ZBrush setup AFAIK. Playing with these settings didn't really give satisfying results. Some questions(I hope you or someone else can answer them): Does it make a (visible)difference between .tif and .tiff(or perhaps other formats?)? What use is the value(in this case 32.938) that 3d-Coat gives on exporting? What is the best way to export the model in Low-poly for usage of displacements? Can I remove to wrong polygons with the mesh in 3dCoat(or replace the model with the displacements/painting)? Would like to supply the model+displacement, but a .tiff is about 65 MB... As said before, because I want to be able to animate it, so exporting in MRes is not really an option. Would be really nice to export the .lwo with an .lws that has a displacement included, but I don't know how hard that is to realize... Edit: re-attached attachments, which somehow disappeared when posting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Oliver Thornton Posted September 12, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Attached are a couple of screenshots of the LW-process. Where? I've managed to get several good displacements from 3DC to LW using the 'standard' node setup with great results, what values are you using and how big is your model? If you could re-attach the images missing from your post maybe we can help you figure it out. Some other answers: -Displacement maps must be 16 or 32 bit for good detail. Other than that the format doesn't really matter as long as it supports 16/32 bit. -I've never been 100% sure on this either, I don't think it is used outside of 3DC. However, inside of 3DC it is the depth value for the exported displacement map. If you were to say paint several layers of depth and output them as one image, you can then delete all the layers and reload the exported displacement into one layer. I've found this necessary in the old days when there was a memory bug involving merging layers. When 3DC asks for the depth value for the re-imported displacement, you would input that value to get accurate displacement. -Depends on how much sculpting was done withing 3DC and how much this has disturbed the base topology you need for animation. If your edge loops are all over the place now you may want to bake the mesh onto the original low res mesh or make a new one using the retopology tools. -Not sure what 'wrong polygons' means, could you be a bit more specific? Cheers, -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Costanel Posted September 12, 2008 Author Member Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Thanks for the quick reply. I attached the screenshots once more, somehow they didn't attach to my post(and I'm certain I added them! :-)) With "wrong" polygons I mean polygons within a mesh for example. My model has a polygon within the wrists which shouldn't be there(hence the weird subdivision). But since I've already sculpted the whole, I don't want to delete these within Lightwave and resculpt... Now it's even more a mess because I've tried to retopoligize it. How do I bake the mesh onto the original low res mesh in 3d-Coat? Never read anything about this... I found out that when importing/exporting the main mesh, it exported normally, but somehow because of the sculpting, the LRes dimensions when exporting are way different. This explains the weird(small) eyes, etc. Haven't found a way to fix it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member Oliver Thornton Posted September 12, 2008 Advanced Member Report Share Posted September 12, 2008 Ok, I see the poly problem. To be brutally honest I would go back to the base mesh and fix (delete) the polys if it was my model. He's a cute little guy, but there's not much detail added that you couldn't re-make in less than an hour. It's the best way to limit problems. As for the eyes and other differences, it looks like you're exporting the wrong mesh. Are the eyes large on the original mesh or is that a sculpting change made in 3DC? If you did them with sculpting you should export the mesh with "use original positions" unselected, this should give you a better matching mesh. Most of the painting tools work by displacing the base mesh, but the sculpting tools actually change the base vertex positions and create changes that are best reflected by exporting the sculpted mesh instead of applying the maps to the original mesh. When you do this however you may find that the hat gets thinner, so you may need to plump it up a bit after the export. Adjust any other areas that suffer from slight shrinkage if needed. Once you have this mesh you can use File>Texture Baking to bake the details out. You may have to hide the different body pieces when doing the bake or you'll end up with the head baked to the hat or vice versa. One last suggestion in case you decide to start over: making the mouth a different material would make it easier to get a straighter line between the skin and mouth interior. If you're looking for a smoother blend instead of a sharper line I would suggest painting one color over the other with a low opacity or using the smooth tool set to only affect color. The eyes look really great, but the rest of the skin is a bit bland, is that intentional? (plastic toy perhaps?) -Oliver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Shpagin Posted September 14, 2008 Report Share Posted September 14, 2008 Some my comments: Current LWO export is better supposed to use normalmapping instead of displacement. To use dicplacement try next steps: 1) Export displacement tiff using standart export 2) Import source LWO file in LW (not from 3DC, but source one). Then apply displacament as you made it before. Other way (better in most cases) - using baking tool 1) Export displacement tiff using baking tool with settings below (use original positions is important). 2) Import source LWO file in LW (not from 3DC, but source one). Then apply displacament as you made it before. I see I need to make special displacement - oriented export for more ease... At least you have shown me nodes structore - now it is not hard task. About questions - Does it make a (visible)difference between .tif and .tiff(or perhaps other formats?)? tif is 16 bit tiff is 32 bit. Almost no visible difference. What use is the value(in this case 32.938) that 3d-Coat gives on exporting? It is only need if you want to import displacement back to 3d-coat. What is the best way to export the model in Low-poly for usage of displacements? It is better to use source model in LW and apply displacement from 3DC. Can I remove to wrong polygons with the mesh in 3dCoat(or replace the model with the displacements/painting)? If you want to delete some polygones, hide them and use Hide->Delete hidden faces Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Costanel Posted September 18, 2008 Author Member Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Okay, I'll try this out when I've got time. Thanks for the info. Somehow no matter how I export it, when it's Low-Res the eyes always become very small. The normal mesh had already big eyes, and importing&exporting(so without sculpting) gave no problems. I think I'll resculpt the model, and see if that makes any difference. I've got the feeling the problems with the mesh and the failed retopo are mostly the blame for this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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