tokikake

Thanks haikale,, I am now testing again and again, (of course I do not hope to stick these primitive pics in official forum( for artist) , I just hope to learn more and more technical detail. of 3d sculpting ><; ), but I feel it is real pity why I still can not understand these basic tool usage about 3d coat.(my chossed aprication) Everytime when I start new procject which use imported obj (character) (I hope to make morph with detail maps in 3d coat to get more better normal map,,) I got same problem (keep my setting of scale things etc,, ) again and again,, then it make me nervous.. Make good normal map , I need to modify retopo mesh too. but if I change it hard,, I can not re-use it for default imported character morph. though if I use texure painting and generate normal map, it is not matter, then I enjoy them,, my planing is,, adjust character base resolution mesh as morph and use it as retopo mesh), then bake detail map from hard sculpted mesh,, so keep scene scale etc, is really important. or it never wrok as morph, of my rigged character,again, ><:

I plan to send mail for andrew and support with detail, but untill send DM, post here I think what is problem, and how it should be, and gather some another user feedback so I hope Andrew understand why I request it, more clear. see my pic please. this is i simple rectangle obj imported to paint room. and my current measurement units, and grid setting is like these pics. As you can see, rectangle height is 2.00meter. and "1 units" of "Grid" is 1m. then I divided it as 10, (10cm). it is reasonable and what I hoped to be. because my current measurement units are set as" Meters" . unitscale set as 1.00 . (I use paint room geometery for sculpt room to compare) Then I set scene scale, off set like this, that mean I do not hope any change about imported obj. Next I hope to add another mesh for current scene. but hope to change "Voxels per Units" untill add new mesh. Then change "Voxels per units" from 1.0 to 100. I suppose it not change current scene, and imported rectangle mesh (in paint room, and in voxel room). and never change grid visualization. But, 3d coat use this parameter for grid too. it can not be supposed, then we see like below pic. now "1 grid length" multiple "100"(voxels per units)!! I think it is not acceptable. if grid change with "voxel count ( for sculpting only)" , how I can keep visuall infomation of size correctly? there is no relation between Grid (for scene measurement) size and "Voxel count to adjust dense for sculpting" and I do not know why it need to be multipled. suggestion 1: "isolate voxel per units from grid parameter for visualization" hope to gather feed back , how other user think about it? the current 3d coat way is reasonable? you think, "grid" need to change size, with "voxels per unit"? If it is approved, and I do not miss something I hope to report another problem about scene scale, unit scale setting too. (3d coat tend to change user setting when import obj for new scene. and it cause problem to keep user custom setting) because these setting are related .

And I do not know what "voxel per units" means. I suppose it simply decide when we import mesh as voxle, it auto-generate the voxels of number which I decided. In this case I keep Units as "Meters", and Voxels per unit (aproximately) = 1000 I suppose, if I add new obj in sculpt room, 3d coat auto-generate 1000voxles per meter. it is enough for me to keep primitive shape. but when I import primitive from vox stamp, (which 3d coat offered), or use primitive tool, then add new mesh as voxel, and adjust scale, to fit current scene unit and size, (almost 1m diameter, compared with another mesh) after all it just generate mesh without 1000 voxels then it can not keep shape. of course I know, I may only need to adjust layer density, but voxel per units not work ?

The complexity of "scene units" "scene scale" "grid size" "voxel per units" are, really troubles me with use "measure ment" tools. If I make something from scratch in 3d coat it not matter. but when I need to make morph with texture, for character which made in blender,or use character which used another aprications, or game mod, and need to work often between 2 aprication, I really hope to keep simple and stable work-flow. and hope to get one official clear document for import -export with keep scale in all work room. (paint, retopo, sculpt) with measure ment tool, but set voxel density as we like. In principle , import ,export with keep size for each aprication is not difficult . it is actually simple math. eg, daz studio use 1cm for "scene units". then in blender. most of user may prefer 1m. to make morph etc. then I export obj from daz studio, use "0.01" (1%) . then it fit about aprication which use scene units = 1m. I export obj from blender keep default (1.00), then when import it to daz studio, I adjust import scale setting use "x100" ("10000" %). but I can not still find good work-flow about 3d coat. I reall hope to get preset and hope to make custom one , but untill thinking about preset, 3d coat need to keep "scene units" for all room and all new scene, untill user change. Of course we need to change grid-count ,grid-density, voxel density, measurement-units as we like without change scene unit. (cm , mm, m / per 1 unit) I really thanks digman offer many answer about this problem, but I still feel it not work with measure ment tools. and when user try to change grid ,and voxel density. or I miss something still. If some one know about 3d coat scene units, and measure ment tools, follow this simple example please. 1 make simple rectanglar. in blender. x = 1m, y = 1m, z = 2m. with use blender scene units = 1m. 2 import it to 3d coat "paint room" .and use measurement tools ,show same number (in 3d coat, x =1m, y=2m, z=1m for world cordinate) from frot view. 3 show 3d coat grids as same as blender unit ( 1m) 4a tweak only one vertices, in shape(tweak) room, then export it as new shape key in blender. 4b from paint room, import it to voxel room obj, with surface mode, then use pose, or transform tool, with auto-fit retopo mesh. then export modified "retopo mesh "as morph (blender shape-key) what settings you can use? could you do it easy? and you could still free adjust grid density, voxel density as you like? as you know these steps should be done without many tweaking. we may only need to setting correctly, and suppose the setting should work untill we change something. but about 3d coat it not work as I expected,,,

Thanks Emi. Now it seems more clear. I do not have photo shop (before I installed only once but never hope again) then I can not test at all, how 3d coat brush edit system work with photo shop. And newest build 4.8.33 have some progress, but to be frankly said, It seems not work correctly with gimp still, (edit as 16bit Tiff and up-date in gimp) seems add 2 or 3 brush , and it often change visuall size.of alpha. I see many strange thing, then after all I almost give up to edit 16bit tiff with gimp. but I know, somehow import process of 16bit Tiff is improved. Though I try to edit each channell with GIMP but after all as you said, even though I edit them, I can not test it with 3d coat about 16bit Tiff I feel. As for me, the way (8bit PSD) to edit map as 5 layer (not channell) is clear enough, but I know about 16bit Tiff, I need to controll each channell (really confusing for me, even though I read the doc carefully,) then, actually recently, I can not convince my import brush (it is offered as 16bit alpha) actually generate keep 16bit as depth. I hope to ask yours,, my process is correct or not,, eg recently I found this brush set as free. (serched to get 16bit tiff brush set by google, then found it) http://www.zbrushcentral.com/printthread.php?t=75606&s=cdeca48c9ed22f937519c440f487a18c as you know, it is offered as 16bit gray-scale PSD,, but when I install it to 3d coat, I do not know, if it keep height-alpha as 16bit.then I load it in gimp , then convert it as 16bit color srgb, and add alpha channell , convert color "black "to alpha. after that I export it as 16bit Tiff. then load it to 3d coat. But do you think,, is it correct way to import these 16bit grey-scale brush? what procedure is correct? I suppose, 3d coat need to use alpha to keep as 16bit. (maybe color or grey-scale data are converted as 8bit?) is it right? or if I get 16bit grey scale brush, Can I directly import it but it need to be Tiff ?

Sorry, I have not downloaded Windows [4.8.33] 　from up-date logs. if new version solve about Tiff ,really thank Andrew. I test again. (and thanks you try to solve about negative (concave) alpha)

Andrew please re-save it in Gimp again, and how change (overwrite) in 3d coat. with use 3d coat option (save as psd/Tiff) edit as 16bit Tiff etc. after overwrite alpha in Gimp (16bit Tiff), the brush can not use any more (lost height map) in 3d coat. I use GImp 2.10. it can open Tiff as 16bit but problem seems happen when edit and save (export) to re-use it in 3d coat

>Carlosan Yes I know, I already have send mail to the support@3dcoat.com ( 2 or 3 weeks ago, about concave brush problem as you suggested in beta topic thank you. I only need to know some developer have test it or not. and I do not hope to send many support mail untill I can confirm clear what is problem and when it cause problem about this Tiff or 16bit alpha issue. >Rygaard I see almost samething with my test about 3d coat brash import option. Today I test with 16 bit alpha psd which I free downloaded. I could import it as 16bit alpha ,in Gimp. And I export it as 16bit Tiff from Gimp. I feel interesting because, when I just use import option, by use + > Open texture file 3d coat generate new brush from 16bit Tiff correctly. (though the guide about "import texture as alpha" is too complex for me, I may not check brightness etc,, with black background) after generate brush , I save to PSD/Tiff. then open the Tiff in Gimp. now it is shown as 16bit but it change channell of the TIFF. when I import PSD and convert to TIff it was greyscale . but save as Tiff in 3d coat it change as SRGB (16bit gamma) and change about alpha channell. but add new 3 chanell ,(and once I load in gimp ,and save again, 3d coat can not use the alpha as height map any more) So as no photo shop user, 1. I can import 16bit alpha Tiff (grey scale) to 3d coat. then 3d coat can generate brush from it . 3d coat seems keep it as 16bit alpha for height map. Only Tiff (16bit) can generate brush as 16bit height map. 2 But there is no way to edit 3d coat brush in Gimp after import to 3d coat brush.(edit specular etc) or lost 16bit quarity of height map) after all, thse problem should be solved when 3d coat perfeclty support "16bit per channell" and format. (16bit Tiff, 16bit PSD, 16bit PNG for RGB alpha channell, exr too) And hope to use same option to edit 3d coat brush as we make 8bit alpha PSD in gimp as layer,,(it is simple and clear, I feel)

Then I know current way to manage brash alpha is really useful for photo shop user, but unfortunately, Gimp or Krita or Clip studio paint, or paint storm ,, these 2d paint aprication can not manage tiff as same as photo shop. So without buy or use photoshop, other user can not get same result to make brush as 16bit alpha. What I hope is, there is option, to import each layer ”color" "Hegiht map" "Specular" "Erasemask" indivdually to 3d coat as 16bit /per channell , alpha Tiff or PNG. then 3d coat convert it as 3d coat alpha brash. I think (it seems requested) 3d coat can not manage 16bit /per channell, but can manage 16bit/alpha as Tiff only. So I hope to extend it for PNG (16 bit alpha) too. (or non photo shop user can not make ,edit 16bit/alpha brash,) Hope to know non photo shop user how manage brush alpha, in other editor,, (Gimp Krita,, or if there is more good free aprciation which can manage 3d coat 16bit Tiff?)

Though I do not use Zbrush but I saw almost samething when I tried to convert old square alpha brash sets with Gimp 2.10 and Krita. I could not. And I hope to make alpha with keep 16bit as same as Rygarrd. I think it is not about 3d coat exporter importer problem, but feel Gimp and Krita can not import Tiff with layer infomation same as photoshop way. What I tried with 3d coat option are 1. Edit as 16bit Tiff It open Gimp 2.10 with my setting, But imported image do not have layer, though it keep 3 Tiff channell. I do not know how to edit these correctly. (I suppose it will be loaded as layer as same as PSD) . Then I just save as overwrite in Gimp. It cause the brash alpha perfectly break in 3d coat. 2 Save to (PSD) Tiff choose Tiff, then open it in Gimp show same things. I can not see any layer . maybe RGB channell and Tiff 3 channell seems keep the infomation, but I may need many complex step to edit each channell as each alpha maps. And even though I edit them, I have no way to save as TIFF which 3d coat can load correctly in Gimp. 3 PSD format work,, but I do not think it can conatin 16bit alpha as same as Tiff . I saved as 16 bit Tiff and import it to 3d coat, then use "Edit in ext editor" it open the alpha image as 8bit gamma integer SRGB in Gimp.

It is not directly about current beta, but hope to add request about Tiff for future beta. The problem is Other many soft ware can not full support Tiff layer. Only photo shop user can manage Tiff alpha as brash I already found same problem , when I tried to convert brush as square size, with 3d coat training video. I could save as Tiff then re-import in 3d coat only, but I can not edit Tiff and re-import ti as Tiff about Gimp and Krita. These aprication not full suport Tiff layer. So I do not hope to use Photo shop and adobe products,, Hope if Andrew can offer way to handle 16 bit alpha brash (other format etc,,) for Gimp and Krita.

This video (mp4 , I record long what I expected then I can not up-load video ><;) sculpt room with voxel and surface mode, I use same brush (height_map in gimp grety to black to concave) it work with Surface mode, but about voxel any brush can not work. so is it expected? though I already learn,, if I invert height-map in gimp, (depth cannel) then when concave use invert, it work without problem.. but ideally I expoect concave height map should work as same as extrude. in every brush which count alpha. https://www.dropbox.com/s/tklxgg3sp6i850m/testSculpt.mp4?dl=0

>AbnRanger So what you means, as you know we have 5 maps when import to another 2d aprication, then you means I need to change "Alpha" maps as you mentioned for sculpt ? I have believed about sculpt room, "Depth" is only matter Then I edit in gimp, as you mentioned,, but it seems not work for me. Or you means I need to change "Depth" map, because when sculpt with voxel, it can only extrude, not concave, (so 0 to 0.5 range gray not concave)? I know when I invert "depth" in Gimp, then return it, now "Depth" change as "0.5 (newtral) to 1 (white)" to extrude. and with use Ctrl or use "invert" option, I can concave. Why I think, it somehow strange because, if I use my brush, with surface mode, in sculpt room it work as I expected (so it concave). and if I use my brush in paint room for UV mesh, it can concave too. but if I use pen plessure for depth, and use the brush which count pen plessure not work. my conculusion or assamption is,,, only some cases, (with voxel, or with pen plessure and UV texture paint" 0 to 0.5 "depth" seems ignored, but about other case, it can concave. testpen.mp4

And,, I suspect If I need to change my export option nomral map texture name, because at current I just use "normal" but your pic seems use "normal_map"? yes,, it worked ^^; So I hope to keep my preset as myway, then I made custom one,, so it cause naming matter I think,, now this setting work for me to generate normal_map. If I use "normal" for texture name, it not work

mm, OK I try again, with keep same as your youtube video. then check how it work for me. it seems only happen for me, so I think, I make some mistake about setting. I ask again, if I can not sucess.. thanks all effort =========== I seems find why my setting generate erroe, I use option "Update UVset and mesh". then if I check OFF this option in blender UI, it seems work correctly. (so 3d coat not overwrite my UV arrange). but I think if I do not use this option, I can not edit mesh in Edit geometry,, (though I just test it how it work may not edit mesh, for texure paint, most of case)

And I tried your scene file, then as for me it still show same erroer, when I use import tiles as UV sets option. then once I deleted new added material group in blender, update again, it seems generate textures. But I found now UV changed as packed. (merged). and could not generate texture for "puna" (second uvtiles) about "puna" there is no poligons were assgined so it is not matter. I download your uploaded 3d coat plug in, io_coat.rar , then overwrite plug in, and test with it.

Then sorry I miss your reply. I may modify like this pic, so now all material group (slots) set same name as 3d coat UV tiles, and I assgin each poligons to material( same as UV tiles) As you can see, this procedure, may change may material group arrangement, so once I change material group, I can not use different node about joined matterial groups. (before there ware 6 groups now there are only 3 groups as same as UV tiles,,so I can not edit those merged group material as individually,,it is only demerit of this procedure) but If I work in 3d coat and generate textures, it seems most standard manner ,with keep UV tiles arrangements. (for another aprications) and 3d coat generate only about each UVtiles. Then If I edit so, I may need not use "import tiles as UVset" but only need to use "Treat material as UVset". now it work same way I think. arrangeUVsettest.blend

I feel there seems some problem when I tried to "Open in original app" in 3d coat, then use "upadate" ..about my blend scene. (I uploaded) your plug in try to generate new materials, and lost material name which imported. then cause error message, Traceback (most recent call last): File "C:\myprograms\blender-git\build_windows_Release_x64_vc15_Release\bin\Release\2.80\scripts\addons\io_coat3D\__init__.py", line 765, in invoke tex.matlab(objekti,mat_list,texturelist,is_new) File "C:\myprograms\blender-git\build_windows_Release_x64_vc15_Release\bin\Release\2.80\scripts\addons\io_coat3D\tex.py", line 432, in matlab readtexturefolder(objekti,mat_list,texturelist,is_new) File "C:\myprograms\blender-git\build_windows_Release_x64_vc15_Release\bin\Release\2.80\scripts\addons\io_coat3D\tex.py", line 79, in readtexturefolder texturelist = UVTiling(objekti, texturelist) File "C:\myprograms\blender-git\build_windows_Release_x64_vc15_Release\bin\Release\2.80\scripts\addons\io_coat3D\tex.py", line 67, in UVTiling texture_info[0] = objekti.material_slots[list_tiles[0]].material.name AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'name' location: <unknown location>:-1 I test 2 options when " Open in original app" , check export UV sets as tiles or check off export UV sets as tiles, but about bothcase, it seems show same erroer with my blend.scene.in 3d coat it seems keep UVtiles and show material as new material group. but when return textures , it cause issue. I felt if I need to set material name as UVtile name in blender first? (it is no problem, if it work so) And if I do not use "Import tiles as UVset" it work without problem I think, for a while I may use this option, as you suggested. because it keep original material in blender as same as before,, maybe most of my purpose it fit well, Only one thing, I still hope to you check, normal map not generate correctly. I think I need to change export option from 3d coat, so what preset, or setting is best to correctly generate normal map node? I suceed before, but recently I lost way. F

Haikalle thanks! Can you wait to up-date your plugi in as official (in git) untill I test it fully then confirm it causse no issue? I really afraid if your plug in not work for other user, (I know daz figure is not usuall for most of blender user, and many game asset artist keep material group for each tiles, or keep one material group for game engine,, then there seems not many user who need this procedure, though it is really useful for me, if plug in work with keep my material group and UDIM tiles,,) anyway I test and report again thanks much!

So I made negative grey-scale brush and save as PSD. I can not sculpt with this brush about voxel (I use build brash) . and I can not use it for texture paint height map with pen plessure mode. if I sculpt for surface mode, it work. and can use it withoht pen plessure mode,, If i invert height map, then return it I can sculpt for voxel without problem. Can someone test it please , install this psd as blash, then in sculpt room, use build brush for Voxel . negativetest.psd

Mm,, unfortunately remove XML did not work for me. Then when I invert "height-map" of brush in GIMP , and return it in 3d coat, it work. Then I can use "invert" option (ctrl) to concave with pen plessure, and sculpt room with brush which recognize alpha. I do not know it is caused only by my PC problem.. as for me, I can not use negative height map ( grey color 0 to 0.5) for sculpt too. it seems ingored in 3d coat,, I think.

Yes I see. and as Carlosan said, I understand 3d coat do not support such way. I think 3d coat use surface group (material group) as texture set. then can separate as UVsets. so if I hope to keep all material group, I need to use "Treat materials as separate textures". And it is common 3d workflow I think. If I really hope to generate textures correspond to UVtiles, I need to edit material group correspond to UVtiles in blender, (eg set material name as UDIM tile name) and it is not so difficult work. And as haikalle said,, blender do not separate "material group = material slots" and "material" as true meaning. we can not set name for "material slots". we can just assign material with material name for each slots (and python API do not offer way, to set custom property for material slots too) So at current I just wait how blender officially support about UDIM things, and maybe I need to change my way to use UDIM UV mesh. Then I only hope, 3d coat app-link will support blender UDIM way. (I do not know, how it will be^^;)

thanks,, I will try it,.. I am afraid it is cuased my wrong edit in gimp (if I overwrite default one already as wrong way,,)

>haikalle Thanks all your efforts,, then just to confirm, most of users, may not use separate UVtiles (as UDIM) in blender , so do not mind if you really need it. I am afraid it break something only for my purpose. and I do not care, if your plug in not work for this purpose.. (even though I can not up-date for such mesh,,(separate UVtiles and many mat groups) it can export texture already) (I often use daz character to play animation etc in blender, then exported mesh generate UDIM UV like the way with keep all material group) But To manage UDIM maybe there are other way (eg use different UVset for each UVtiles or make original node gorups etc) , though I usually use material groups to separate UVtiles for render . And I made simple mesh 2.8 blender scene, which use 6 material groups with 3 UV tiles (UDIM way), so hope if you plan to code,, test it please and how it work. with each options. you may see 3d coat how generate UVsets for UVtiles and material groups with each import options. UVsettest.blend

Hi Carlosan, Yes blender not support UDIM as perfect meaning. but as you can see, if you export mesh with UDIM type UV to blender (2.7 is almost same I think) (I export daz figure which use UDIM UV without collapse UV set (merge all UVtiles as one) it can show same UVmap with keep UDIM tilese (as separate UVtiles) and keep each material group which assgined for each UVtiles. or you can assgin 2 or 3 material groups for each UVsets too. eg UDIM 1001 tiles include head and eyesocket and ear material. UDIM 1002 include hand and hand nails etc. then if you set texture map node option as Repeat, it show material correctly when you render (so there is no problem about UDIM UV render) But blender not support UDIM tilling UVset for baking so I need to merge all UV tiles as one, and need to bake all material group with set texture nodes. and may cause issue, when you paint texture in blender. (maybe htere is plug in but I do not know free one which can paint texture with UDIM UV, maybe they use 6UVsets for 6UVtiles as same as 3d coat.. I believe, and blender 2.8 may support the way. not keep UVset as one.) Though I have never used other aprication (MARI or 3dsMax etc) which support UDIM as true meaning, and how they work with UDIM. but at least about UDIM and blender my workflow is what we need to use UDIM UV. Then why I can not up-load scene, my mesh is from daz products. but I can do samething with cube etc, just need to locate UVtiles as UDIM manner. and set materials for each UVtiles. though cube may only need 6 material and 6 UVtiles (if I separate so),, and it may help how we can set UDIM UV in blender.