Tutorials Too Complex?

[alvordr]

No offense to anyone here who has taken the time to create tutorials for us. They're generally very well done. However, am I the only one that feels like there is too much complexity in them to really get a basic grasp of how 3DC works internally?

I'm still struggling with how to get from room to room in this thing. I find various issues that are either bugs, or more likely...something I'm not doing correctly.

I would be more than happy to create tutorials myself, but I'm not the one to do this just yet. What I think would help is not to worry about making a complex mesh in these tutorials, but just to demonstrate the task or method or tool or functionality using something simple, like a box. I find that by the time we've gotten to the core of the tutorial, so much has been covered I'm lost in how we started or somewhere in between. I also find that because so much is covered, some seemingly insignificant detail gets left out that stops the whole process for someone who has never used this program before.

Another thing I think would help is to have a "Send to Paint Room," or "Send to UV Room" button, etc. I realize there is a workflow for this, but I look at the "Merge with..." options under the Retopo menu and there are 9 options, none of which make much sense to me. All I particularly care about is getting the high poly details projected to a low poly mesh or simply ensuring my mesh is quadified, so that I can paint it and get it into a game, or render engine of my choice.

I don't want to come across as complaining, as I really like this program a lot and very much appreciate the work that everyone has done here. I just think it shouldn't be taking this long to get to the core functions that I bought it for.

[alvordr]

Perhaps how I should have address this is to have said "Can we have more simplified and focused tutorials?" rather than "Are the tutorials too complex?" Like I said, I like the tutorials we have. I just think this other approach would help newbies more.

[Spincycle]

The Rat from Scratch tutorial was pretty easy for me to follow along but I'm still totally confused LOL.

[Carlosan]

Take me 6 months to understand 3DC, lol

Every Room is like a program by itself

You begin sculpting at Voxels Room the general shape

Converting the Voxel Mode to Sculpt Mode let to add details

Using LC let to add fine details

From voxel room to paint room have 2 ways

- Vertex painting when you are in Sculpt mode, and

- Making Retopology, UVset and sending the retopo model to paint room (Merge)

Merge PPP if you need to export Normal maps

Merge Microverts if you need to export Displacement maps

Merge Ptex if you need to export Ptex maps.

Now at Paint Room you can add layers and blend like Photoshop.

From Paint room you can use 2 new room: Tweak and UVroom

Tweak Room is used if you need to change some shape proportions

UVroom let to change/add UVsets. If you change anything dont forget to apply UV-set to see this changes updated at Paint Room.

Render room is render room, nothing more

[Spincycle]

I figure it's going to take time and experimentation. Seeing the different features in action is nice even if you don't fully understand how because at least you know what is possible with 3DC.

[alvordr]

carlosa,

Thanks. I'll take a look further into this. It's hard going from Cheetah3D, to 3ds Max, Maya, Mudbox, Unreal Engine, Unity, ZBrush, etc. etc. and then onto yet another program with it's own terminology and workflow. 3D Coat is an interesting beast, in that it's super simple for certain things and seemingly over complex for others.

[alvordr]

In the past 2 weeks since I got 3DC, I've managed to sculpt quite a few models, UV Unwrap them and, in some cases, retopologize them. However, I then go to 3ds Max, to create a base mesh for a briefcase, that I then want to pull into 3DC to UV Unwrap and texture, but find that the mesh looks somewhat messed up coming back out, even though I didn't change any topology. This may be a displacement thing, even though I never intended to use displacement. This is where knowing the workflow better comes in.

[Psmith]

3D-Coat is totally "non-traditional" in its approach to doing many things therein.

Maybe this will help:

Imagine all you wish to do is create a basic piece of geometry within 3DC, using Voxels or Surfaces. Since you need to eventually export this model as a polygonal mesh with all texturing that you perform within 3DC, how, you may ask, do you accomplish this simple procedure?

1) Starting in the Voxel Room, select the "Primitives Tool" and create a standard "Cube". Scale it so that it fills 1/2 of the Viewport. Press "Enter" to confirm the addition of the Cube.

2) Right-Click on the the Voxel Layer and select "AUTOPO for per pixel". Enter a relatively small number, say 1200, in the resolution field.

3) Press "Enter" and accept all the following default settings to let 3DC use its "intuition" to construct a polygonal cage.

4) Accept all the following defaults in the ensuing dialogs - which will leave you in the Paint Room for adding textures.

What has happened during this process? First, a mesh has been created in the Retopo Room. Second, the mesh has been marked with seams and unwrapped - creating a UV Map in the UV Room. Third, a representation of that unwrapped/UV'd mesh has been placed in the Paint Room by means of Merging (Retopo Menu - Merge with NM per-pixel) - which establishes your "temporary" UV Map as a permanent one.

This automated process really is the same process you would perform, manually, every time you wish to make a model and begin texturing it.

5) Paint your textures in the Paint Room using Materials and Value setting to produce what will become Diffuse Maps, Specular Maps, Bump Maps, Normal Maps, Displacement Maps.

6) Using the "Export Model" dialog from the "File" menu, set all of the values for your exported mesh and its corresponding textures. (This does take some ordinary 3D modeling and texturing "know-how" to get the right output from your entries in the various dialog fields.

This is the most basic workflow that should be attempted to comprehend before proceeding to more advanced uses of the program.

The progression is as follows: Model and Sculpt in the Voxel Room or Surface Mode (subset of Voxels). Create topology in the Retopo Room, marking seams and Unwrapping your mesh for a UV Preview. Merge this mesh and its assigned UV's into the Paint Room for texturing - (making the UV's permanent). Paint all texture information in the Paint Room. Export all mesh and texture information by means of the "Export" dialog in the "File" menu.

The UV Room exists to adjust the layout of your potential UV Maps. The Retopo Groups exist to create individual UV Maps for each Retopo Group. The Tweak Room exists to do polygonal adjustments and shaping, without changing any topology. The Render Room exists to provide a fairly good representation of any render you might perform externally - and it allows you to produce "Turntable" animations and "Fly-By" animations.

That's pretty much the simplest explanation of the anatomy of 3D-Coat and its primary uses.

Greg Smith

[alvordr]

Greg,

Wow! That was quite a watered down approach. Thank you. I think I'm somewhere between the basic approach you first mentioned and the next step of progression. Maybe I need to step back to the basics before attempting to go forward. I'm trying to see how I can leverage 3DC for classes that are coming up, as I'm in my final year, pursuing a BA in Game Art & Design. I love how it works to get my UVs and topology placed quickly and cleanly. I'm just having to work through the rest of the process to get finished.

[alvordr]

These are more along the lines of what I was referring to, when I said that it would be helpful to concentrate on smaller concepts. Javis goes through various tools, one by one or in small groups. I didn't realize those videos were there, until today.

https://vimeo.com/channels/3dcoat/8630543