Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted August 4, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 http://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-phenom-iv-x12-170-baeca-25nm-cpu-leaked-features-12-cores-6-ghz-core-clock-am4-socket-compatbility/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 4, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 http://wccftech.com/rumor-amd-phenom-iv-x12-170-baeca-25nm-cpu-leaked-features-12-cores-6-ghz-core-clock-am4-socket-compatbility/ Thanks...good to see some serious competition for Intel afterall. Have to wonder if AMD's public declaration that they weren't going to be competing in the high-end/enthusiast market, has served to make Intel lower it's guard while it caught up? Seems like it might have worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted August 5, 2013 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 http://www.amazon.com/AMD-FD9370FHHKWOF-FX-9370-FX-Series-Edition/dp/B00DGHD2TA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375652929&sr=8-2&keywords=9370 This is a lot cheaper and can be overclocked to 6ghz $300 instead of $800 or more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted August 5, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 But I was under the impression that AMD doesn't play well with 3DCoat? I'm about to upgrade my rig, so it's important to know these facts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted August 5, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) It may depend on whether your MB is Intel based. See previous post today by Ancien Regime about Cinebench scores. The link to the PDF is worth a look. A long doc from the US Federal Trade Commission about Intels dirty tricks. f Cinebench detected a non Intel CPU it scored it lower http://www.ftc.gov/o...16intelcmpt.pdf The Cinebench stuff is on page 11 but there is a lot more about coerced OEMs, etc. Edited August 5, 2013 by Tony Nemo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 5, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 But I was under the impression that AMD doesn't play well with 3DCoat? I'm about to upgrade my rig, so it's important to know these facts. Applications that use Intel TBB (thread building block) libraries, which 3D Coat does and I believe Modo does, there is a decided advantage for Intel CPU's. If I were buying today, I would still go with a hexacore Intel CPU, like the i7 3930. In overall, computer usage, the Intel CPU's won't necessarily prevail. The chip that Tony just pointed to (9370), is about on par with the Intel i7 3770 (quad core/8threads). I don't plan to buy any AMD chips for a while, because of the disparity between them and the i7's when Intel TBB libraries are used. I don't think this 12 core will be much better than the i7 3930. Why? Cause you have to remember....i7's have Hyperthreading, so a Quadcore has 8 threads and a 6 core has 12. When AMD first announced there 8 core CPU's, everyone thought they would be i7 killers. But they were not. They didn't even come close. In fact they have been lagging behind every since. They are just now offering versions than can compete with 2yr old Intel CPU's. Not very inspiring. What it does do, though, is force Intel to get off their duff and take the competition seriously. They have effectively taken a break for the past 2-3yrs, knowing that's how far behind AMD was. Before this 12 core, there was no answer to Intel's 6core (12 threads) i7's. By the time AMD get's it to market, Intel will likely have a model in their back pocket, to release as well. We need the competition to heat up. It's gone icy cold these past few years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contributor Tony Nemo Posted August 5, 2013 Contributor Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 On the Intel anti-competitive issue, it was settled in 2010: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/08/intel.shtm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted August 5, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 It does make my head spin at times. But the hyperthreading is the reason I will be sticking with Intel. I am almost sold down the haswell 4770k route, even given its well documented heat troubles. I don't want to buy a MB that doesn't support the latest chips and I can't see Intel swapping out the 1150 socket anytime soon, meaning that when the next 6 core (12 thread) haswells come out (4930k?) I'll still be able to upgrade. At the moment, I can't afford the i7 3930, but I maybe able to afford its successor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 5, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 On the Intel anti-competitive issue, it was settled in 2010: http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2010/08/intel.shtm Here is the key clause in that article, as it applies to Intel's performance advantage in 3D Coat (among other apps): "....disclose to software developers that Intel computer compilers discriminate between Intel chips and non-Intel chips, and that they may not register all the features of non-Intel chips. Intel also will have to reimburse all software vendors who want to recompile their software using a non-Intel compiler." This has been brought up in other articles, that Intel "rigs" it's TBB libraries to run optimally on a recognized Intel CPU, but hamstring a non-Intel recognized CPU (AMD). This is why you see an AMD Phenom X6 (6 core CPU) choking on large texture maps + large brush sizes....while a quad-core i7 (950), which performs roughly the same in most benchmarks (3D rendering, media encoding, etc), handles those same maps and brush sizes with relative ease. It is specifically due to Andrew's choice to use Intel TBB's for multithreading. It is designed to cripple AMD CPU's....plain and simple. That's why it says in that clause, that part of the settlement is Intel has to inform vendors like Andrew that they basically hamstring AMD CPU's. Now, it also says that Intel has to reimburse vendors like Andrew, for recompiling with a more equitable compiler. It's up to Andrew to correct this. And until he does, AMD CPU's will always underperform....no matter how many cores or GHZ. Relying on an Intel compiler will cripple AMD's. He knows it. The question is whether he is willing to do something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 5, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 It does make my head spin at times. But the hyperthreading is the reason I will be sticking with Intel. I am almost sold down the haswell 4770k route, even given its well documented heat troubles. I don't want to buy a MB that doesn't support the latest chips and I can't see Intel swapping out the 1150 socket anytime soon, meaning that when the next 6 core (12 thread) haswells come out (4930k?) I'll still be able to upgrade. At the moment, I can't afford the i7 3930, but I maybe able to afford its successor. You can find 3930's on eBay between $400-500. Maybe look for a good buy on a MB, to help make up the difference in price. You'll be good to go for a 3-4yrs, and then there will likely be some substantial improvements in the CPU market. Now that AMD is pushing back at the high end, I expect Intel to come up with something big in the next 2yrs or so. What I did is bought a used i7 970 (practically the same chip as the i7 980 Extreme Edition, but without an unlocked multiplier....I don't need one), and it rocks pretty hard in 3D Coat. So, going with a 3930 will give you more than enough juice to get by on, for the next few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted August 5, 2013 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) DDR 4 RAM coming out in 2014, and new Open GL 4.4 , Open CL , Open RL etc will be out then too. No point buying a mobo or cpu or gpu right now. The only GPU capable of running the new open GL 4 is the Nvidia Quadro Pro k6000 at $7000.00 http://www.anandtech.com/show/7161/khronos-siggraph-2013-opengl-44-opencl-20-opencl-12-spir-announced Edited August 5, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputable Contributor AbnRanger Posted August 5, 2013 Reputable Contributor Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 DDR 4 RAM coming out in 2014, and new Open GL 4.4 , Open CL , Open RL etc will be out then too. No point buying a mobo or cpu or gpu right now. The only GPU capable of running the new open GL 4 is the Nvidia Quadro Pro k6000 at $7000.00 http://www.anandtech.com/show/7161/khronos-siggraph-2013-opengl-44-opencl-20-opencl-12-spir-announced Yeah, but even if you have the hardware support, it doesn't mean the software vendors are going to implement that standard anytime soon. For example, 3D Coat is still using DX 9...which is about 10yrs old. What does that tell you? It's one reason why I've been trying to push Andrew to switch to DX11. DX 9 is Windows XP old. We'd probably see some substantial improvements application-wide. The OpenGL version is probably still on version 1, as well. A lot of this performance stuff lies in the hands of the developers, themselves. CUDA is a good example. Until Andrew recompiles the code of CUDA 4 or 5, it's not going to matter a great deal how many CUDA cores one may have. Not when they aren't recompiled to take advantage of the new optimizations NVidia has written for it. DDR4 will be uber-expensive, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member L'Ancien Regime Posted August 5, 2013 Author Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 (edited) DDR4 will be cheaper than DDR3, just like DDR3 is less expensive than DDR2 RAM. I know I'm using DDR2..damned expensive. Edited August 5, 2013 by L'Ancien Regime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advanced Member wave of light Posted August 6, 2013 Advanced Member Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Well, I've been running the same PC for the past 6 years (Q6660 - 8GB DDr2 Ram - 9500GT GPU) so I am ready for an upgrade. DDR4 will be cheaper than DDR3? That's an interesting point of view.. I remember when DDR3 came out and it wasn't cheaper than DDR2... over time the price came down, but not at launch. And with what you said about the $7000 graphics card being the only one able to support the new OpenGL, then I think it's not going to be an issue for me to upgrade now and then wait 2 years before deciding to upgrade again. The speed difference between my wish list rig and current rig will be dramatic enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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