[Solved] Looking for another 12 months of updates. How long does it usually take for the upgrade option to appear?

[cookepuss]

I know. Pilgway isn't in the business of selling maintenance. I also know that you must meet certain conditions first before you can upgrade. I've already read the threads.

1. The maintenance period of your license must expire first. CHECK. Mine just expired yesterday (7/20/2023).
2. There must be a stable build to upgrade to, newer than the last stable build you upgraded to. CHECK. I upgraded last year at this time from v2021 to v2022. The current stable build is v2023.25.

As far as I can see, I meet both criteria and would like to upgrade from my 2022 license (ending July 20, 2023) so that I can get another 12 months of support, updates.

I'm not expecting the option to be instantaneously available to me at the stroke of midnight. However, I remember that numerous people had problems last year. I want to avoid that.

I was just curious whether or not the option to upgrade is done automatically or whether we have to request it from sales first, which I didn't need to do last July, fwiw.

I've been using 3DCoat for 14 years now. I upgrade from v3 to v4, from v4 to v2021, and from v2021 to v2022. With my license perpetual, but no longer eligible for maintenance past July 20, 2023, I'd like to keep my streak going. Happy to pay. Just need the option to do so. :)

[cookepuss]

Thanks. Managed to send out an e-mail to Pilgway. Just awaiting a response now.

I know that most people would see  that "free" license in their account and just keep quiet about it. Personally? I wouldn't feel right since I hadn't paid the required 45€.Too honest? Maybe. Just trying to play it straight.

Not sure if it was a goof on Pilgway's part or just their attempt to shut me up. Either way, I'm sitting on my hands and waiting to hear from Pilgway before I even think about touching that license or v2023.26. I really want to get that money thing squared first. Better than letting the shoe drop at a later date.

Like my dad is fond of saying, "Don't piss off the people who serve your food." lol

[cookepuss]

Well. It's been nearly 4 weeks now.

For those of you who are wondering if/how this situation actually got resolved, here's a quick recap of events and the various problems, solutions along the way. (SPOILER: I got no help and ultimately had to go with my "doomsday option" and spend extra money.)

ORIGINAL PROBLEM:
The date was July 21st and my maintenance had run out the day before, July 20th. As you might guess, I wanted to upgrade and get my fresh license. Unfortunately, there was no upgrade button on my account.

I posted here and e-mailed Pilgway numerous times. Pilgway's original solution was for me to just rent for another year. I had a permanent license and rental was not what I was trying to do.

More e-mails. More posts. More waiting. Eventually, Pilgway got back to me and told me that I had to wait for a new downloadable version to be made available before the upgrade button would appear on my account. Fine. Seems pretty solved, right? I just had to wait some more. I was okay with that.

PROBLEM PART II
After noticing how people with similar license dates had gotten their upgrade button already, I checked my account to see if it had appeared on mine too. Nope. No upgrade button yet.

Wait. Hold on a second. There's a fresh updated license file on my account?!? Sounds solved, but I didn't pay my 45€ though. The license just... appeared.

I'm no thief. I was NOT going to use a license file that I didn't pay for. So, naturally, I posted here and sent even MORE e-mails to Pilgway. My intention (at the time) was to find a way to pay them the 45€ that I was to originally pay for the upgraded license. No such thing as a free ride, right?

Wait. Wait. ... Wait some more. ... I e-mailed Pilgway again. Nothing. Total silence. Meanwhile, more betas and fixes are coming out.

MY SOLUTION
I didn't want to, but I had to shell out another 379€ for a fresh license, on a different account as to not create further problems/entanglements on the original. With NO help coming my way, this was the only way for me to get my 12 months and actually pay Pilgway.

So.... fresh license on a fresh account. That was my solution, like it or not.

Regarding my old license.... As far as I'm concerned, I'm keeping it frozen at v2023.25 and I'll probably just give it to my niece in that state. Maybe. Haven't decided yet. That "accidental fix" of a license that was put on my account, but didn't pay for doesn't exist in my mind.

FINAL THOUGHTS

To reiterate... I will NOT use the new/fresh license that was erroneously put on my account without me having paid the upgrade fee for it. That would be wrong, which is why I was trying to pay Pilgway in the first place. I'm done trying to explore that avenue, resolution though. Leave it frozen to v2023.25, the "problem" on that account unresolved in a way that is beneficial to both parties, and keep the party bus moving. Done.

Too honest of me? Maybe. Again, I know that Andrew & Co work hard for their money. I had no intention of taking food from their mouths.

So, as far as I'm concerned, this problem is solved. Pilgway got paid, about 7x more than I had intended, but it's done. ~fini~

My old license, from my perspective, is frozen at v2023.25 and my niece will probably inherit it in that state. No upgrading that particular account/license beyond that. Let her learn digital sculpting on my dime.

Now, I've got my 12 months - on a fresh license AND on a new account. It "only" set me back by 379€.

TBH, I've paid more for less so I'm not THAT annoyed. I'm just extra grumpy that I had to resolve the problem myself when it would've cost me 45€ instead. I don't expect to receive support 5 minutes after I click "send" on my e-mail, but waiting 3-4 weeks, jumping through hoops, and STILL getting no definitive help from Pilgway... Frustrating at the least.

GOING FORWARD... If I end up having this same problem in August 2024, I'm just going to explore 3rd party alternatives. Simple as that I love 3DCoat and have been a user for 14 years (since 2009), but I don't think I can put myself through another month's worth of e-mails, posts, and broken "solutions". Certainly not another 379€ for what should have been a 45€ upgrade.

Again, to my satisfaction, this problem is solved. No further intervention required. I just won't go through this drama again next year if I get a whiff that it'll happen. Not at all. I'll cross/burn that bridge August 2024.

[Carlosan]

Sorry any troubles
Reported

[cookepuss]

No sense in reporting anything. As far as I'm concerned, it's done. I've got a second license now. It is what it is. No sense in crying over spilt milk.

I just think, in the future, this could all be handled more smoothly. No accidental licenses. Better upgrade system. More responsive to emails. ETC.

I just wanted to keep people here updated since I hadn't posted anything in a bit.

[lazyghoul]

On 8/16/2023 at 12:44 AM, cookepuss said:

No sense in reporting anything. As far as I'm concerned, it's done.

I beg to differ!... Don't get me wrong, I understand why you chose to end it like this. Carlosan did the best he could. Over the years, I've seen him helping a lot of people here and there, redirecting issues and such.

Now, I've been long enough in customer support to know this could not be the end of the story. First thing, the [Solved] mark should be removed from the thread. Someone from a higher level of management should contact you asap. Have a chat, talk about refund. Customer care at its best is required as soon as possible.

 

 

 

Edited August 17, 2023 by lazyghoul
babbling removed

[cookepuss]

I appreciate your willingness to advocate on my part. I really do. I too would certainly have preferred to spend $54 (USD) instead of $453. However, when the problem doesn't get properly resolved after 3-4 weeks of constant attempts, yet is marked [SOLVED] within mere days nevertheless, I share your outrage - and then some.

I read your post the moment it appeared and before being edited for apparent "language" and "babble" reasons. I simply choose to wait and not enter some Raging Gigachad mode; Best to let calm prevail despite the fact that I felt as if I had been secretly testing some new Frustration Module?

Having said that...

Look. I don't expect this post or even yours to effect instantaneous, any change or response. To quote Maya Angelou, "When people show you who they are, believe them." That's my feeling here. Actions speak volumes. A company that is quick to take money and slow to support tells you all that you need to know.

I spent nearly a month trying to resolve the upgrade issue and then me subsequently trying to pay them 45€ for the upgrade erroneously (?) added to my account without my knowledge. However, it probably only took 15 minutes for them to take my $453.01 and then send me a brand new license.

I understand that one system is automated while the other is not. However, the optics of it are... ugly. Once again, I am in full agreement with you.

In my final assessment, I feel that stamping [SOLVED] on this topic in a way that matters remains highly unlikely. If anything, like one of those Chinese finger traps, the constant pulling back and forth will probably prolong "the agony" more than necessary. Struggling in quicksand only makes you sink faster, to mix my metaphors here.

Personally, at least on some level, I expect Pilgway's internal logic to be something along the lines of...

1. "Mistake or not, he already got the upgraded license added to his account. What's he complaining about? He didn't even have to pay us our 45€. He should just take the win and move on."
2. "Nobody put a gun to his head and forced him to buy a brand new 379€ license. He's a big boy. That was his decision."

Were that the rationale behind the scenes or not, I honestly have no idea. Regardless, I'm not sure that I'd agree on either point.

1. Whether the license upgrade was added intentionally or by mistake, it was still my (original) intention to do the honest thing and pay the 45€ owed to them. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's.
2. Nobody held a gun to my head and forced me to spend 379€; 334€ more than necessary had this issue been addressed adequately. That is accurate. Still, HAD this issue been addressed properly and in a decently expedient fashion, days instead of weeks (or never), my hand would not have felt forced to self-resolve. "What would a reasonable person do in this situation?" That was my mindset.

I know that it might seem as if I'm not being appropriately insistent or outraged enough; I'm plenty of both. In a perfect world, if for no other reason than to maintain a strong relationship, maybe this story should end in a different and more positive manner. This isn't a perfect world and I don't anticipate that happening. Past is prologue.

Ultimately, long past the risk of sounding redundant, I just want the record to show that:

1. I did go through the process and the relevant channels, as requested and dictated by common sense.
2. Lengthy posts here aside, I did remain reasonably patient. Not once did I expect instantaneous responses or resolutions.
3. Having noticed the (erroneously?) added upgrade license on my account, I did make several requests regarding how I could pay them the 45€ owed.
4. I never intended on keeping or using a 45€ upgrade license that I didn't pay for.
5. The license on this account is frozen at v2023.25 as far as I'm concerned.
6. I no longer intend on pursuing an upgrade to the license on this account OR paying for the one erroneously (?) added without my consent or knowledge. I tried repeatedly. The moment has passed.
7. I will happily continue to use the brand new (fully paid for) license though
8. Me spending that 379€ ($453.01) was a last resort. I'd still be waiting if I hadn't. Who wants their maintenance period to end?
9. Not once had I raged, threatened, or taken to social media like some crazed lunatic. I really could have and, after weeks of treading water, it might not have been totally unreasonable Still, one does not engender good will that way though. Despite brevity not being my forte, I did try to remain rational, patient, and professional at every turn. Had I been another person or even 20 years younger...

Once again, I appreciate your shared outrage and attempt at intervention on my behalf. I'm just trying to be realistic here.

My message to Pilgway: "Do better. If not for me, for the next guy or the one after."

As Porky Pig would say, "That's all folks."

Edited August 18, 2023 by cookepuss

[lazyghoul]

Pilgway, Andrew....shame on you! Two weeks has passed and no reaction! Feel free to delete this thread entirely! Sweep it under the carpet! Oh, and yes!..I will apologize if @cookepuss didn't care to inform us all how goodwill prevailed. I remember a time with a faith driven EULA, what changed in between?

Edited September 3, 2023 by lazyghoul

[Carlosan]

I'm sorry to hear that.

It is not the answer in spam folder ?

[lazyghoul]

18 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

It is not the answer in spam folder ?

I don't know. That's for @cookepuss to reveal. Again, I apologize if this dispute was somehow settled and hugs were shared behind the curtains. It's just about fairness.

Anyway, I appreciate your willingness to help, you're a true WesMcDermott for Pilgway 

[Carlosan]

I am trying to do my best.
Unfortunately the war makes communications difficult.
sorry about that.

[lazyghoul]

42 minutes ago, Carlosan said:

Unfortunately the war makes communications difficult

I'll admit that for the sake of Pilgway's staff good ruling. I'm 30 minutes away from Ukrainian  border and I'm not aware of communications issues, though it may be indeed a problem.

 

[cookepuss]

On 9/3/2023 at 11:34 AM, lazyghoul said:

I will apologize if @cookepuss didn't care to inform us all how goodwill prevailed.

I would definitely have informed people if that had happened or even if a good old "blah blah blah" response had entered my inbox. Sadly, I've heard nothing. It's just... Yeah. It's a terrible way to build customer trust. I can chalk some of it to mitigating circumstances, but the rest is just poor form.

 

On 9/3/2023 at 12:20 PM, Carlosan said:

It is not the answer in spam folder ?

I haven't gotten a single response in the least. Not in spam. trash, inbox, or my dreams. This thread is the most of I heard on this topic in weeks. No brotherly love where cash is involved, I suppose.

[stas3dc]

On 9/9/2023 at 3:20 PM, cookepuss said:

I would definitely have informed people if that had happened or even if a good old "blah blah blah" response had entered my inbox. Sadly, I've heard nothing. It's just... Yeah. It's a terrible way to build customer trust. I can chalk some of it to mitigating circumstances, but the rest is just poor form.

 

I haven't gotten a single response in the least. Not in spam. trash, inbox, or my dreams. This thread is the most of I heard on this topic in weeks. No brotherly love where cash is involved, I suppose.

Hello, my name is Stanislav, I am a director at Pilgway LLC. Today I just saw this thread. I am sorry for all that stuff. The guy who is in charge of answering users' questions was ill some time ago and maybe that influenced your problem. I am sure we need to refund you the latest purchase of the full license.  I sent you an email and gave my Skype nickname there. Please call me on Skype. Let's talk, please explain the problem and I will do my best to solve it.

 

[cookepuss]

Hey there, Stanislav.

I responded to you directly via e-mail. It's super long, but I wanted you to follow the full chain of events without having to read through this even longer thread. At this PC and in this current location, a webcam is not available to me and video chat isn't an option. Plus, we're both in vastly different time zones. E-Mail works out a little better.

I outlined the situation, the expensive lengths to which I had to go just for 12 more months of paid support/maintenance, and at what account (new VS old) I'll be using instead. I only need one license as I'm only one person. Once you read my full e-mail in all of it's gory detail, you'll better understand how to move forward to the satisfaction of all parties involved.

Thanks.

[cookepuss]

BTW, I am sorry to hear of that person's illness. I suffered from extreme COVID (and related pneumonia) just a few years ago. I was ill for 2+ months and nearly died. No joke. (That was my second major bout too.) Even recovered, I still suffer from some liver damage as a result.

My mother also got COVID during that time period (her 2nd bout too). She got COVID related pneumonia with a side of induced dementia on the side. Not great. She's been bed ridden in a nursing home since. I sincerely hope that your team member has recovered and is doing better. I know what it's like to be super ill and intensely unresponsive. It stinks. Sorry once again.

[cookepuss]

Okay, guys, you rabid lot you. I would greatly like to thank all of you for advocating on my behalf. I was more than ready to take my lumps like a big boy, but you guys... You're certainly the never surrender type. Thanks.

Having said that, I've since spoken to Stanislov at Pilgway. He made me a generous offer to make me whole, offering me up the full refund for the new license as well as gifting me the original upgrade for my weeks/months long inconvenience. Once that refund is processed, I will consider this matter more fully resolved. Finished and in the history books.

I would like to publicly thank Stanislov for his kind, courteous, generous, AND prompt response. It greatly renews my faith in Pilgway. As I told him directly, I hold nobody at fault here. It's just one of those things that happens. Let there be no bad blood between any of us from here on out.

Thank you and Cheers.

[Stefka]

Hi to everybody, especially to @stas3dc, @Carlosan

I am really happy to see that some people are happy that they got their updates in time and for the price of 45€ (as is offered in the contract).

I am just in the situation to update my 3DCoat version which I bought in Jan. 2023 to the latest stable version 2024.13

I do have the possibility to load the update, but it´s a learning version and limited to only some days.

The company sent me an update link for 300€!!

I´m still looking for the link for the update of 45€, because I am, of course, willing to pay the 45€.

But beside this, it may be not known by Pilgway that starting from 2022, there are new legal regulations about selling software in Europe. These regulations clearly say that the vendor is responsible for providing a stable and error-free software. Because error-free software is not possible, the manufacturer is obliged to provide free updates to the users to guarantee error-free and safe software. The manufacturer is not obliged to provide free additional functionality to the users.

Here is the corresponding link. The link is from the "Europäische Verbraucher Zentrale".

https://www.evz.de/einkaufen-internet/gewaehrleistung-und-garantie/was-versteht-man-unter-digitalen-produkten-und-digitalen-dienstleistungen-evzde.html

As well the corresponding paragraph in German language.

"Was versteht man unter der Aktualisierungs- bzw. Updatepflicht?

Eine besondere Neuerung liegt in der Verpflichtung der Verkäuferin oder des Verkäufers zur Aktualisierung digitaler Produkte. Danach ist die Verkäuferin bzw. der Verkäufer verpflichtet, Aktualisierungen bereitzustellen, damit die digitalen Produkte durch regelmäßige Updates funktionsfähig bleiben und Sicherheitslücken geschlossen werden."

I do hope that my translation above is correct, concerning the content. (I am not a professional translator and this is not any legal advice, it is for information only)

So, regarding the legal basis, there should not be any charge applied for a necessary update. But as I said, if anybody could tell me how to update and get another year of free updates for 45€, please let me know.

Best regards

Walter

PS: So, right now I updated to the latest available version 2023.12. Sorry to say, it´s still very buggy, especially when importing objects with multi layers in Paint room, when working with Paint room, UV room and Modeling room in conjunction. (However, this not the topic at hand here, nor is it the time to go into this issue any deeper)

[Stefka]

2 hours ago, stas3dc said:

Hello, please write an email to sales@3dcoat.com and indicate which email did you use for the purchase of 3DCoat. We will solve problems with the upgrade for 45 Euro. There should not be problems.

Hi @stas3dc

Thank you very much for the fast response.

I will send the email to sales tomorrow, because today it´s very late here in Germany.

I will keep you informed.

Thank you and have a nice day/evening.

Best regards

Walter

[Stefka]

Hi to all and specially to @stas3dc

Today all my problems got solved by the perfect and very fast support from sales@3dcoat.com

I´m completely satisfied!

Best regards

Walter