Anybdy got Ptex to work?

[lowedennis]

I tried experimenting with a simple voxel sphere and just accepted the defaulte to get into the Ptex paint room - all went well.

I then pulled in my model (7 million odd tris) and did the same, all went well and ended up in the retopo (like the sphere test) and I accepted the defaults.

I noticed that now I have Quadmesh1 and Quadmesh2 in the retopo group window, anyhow I accept the defaults and the familiar 'not responding' pops up on top left - do I leave this overnight to complete or is this a normal situation? is it a quick process or a long one?

[John]

I tried experimenting with a simple voxel sphere and just accepted the defaulte to get into the Ptex paint room - all went well.

I then pulled in my model (7 million odd tris) and did the same, all went well and ended up in the retopo (like the sphere test) and I accepted the defaults.

I noticed that now I have Quadmesh1 and Quadmesh2 in the retopo group window, anyhow I accept the defaults and the familiar 'not responding' pops up on top left - do I leave this overnight to complete or is this a normal situation? is it a quick process or a long one?

Hi

Before I start, thats one sweet model man really cool. The polycount doesnt look tooo huge but you do have a very multi coloured mesh, which kind of makes me think your UV Map might need sorting out. I think your model might be too complex for the auto mapping feature.

Besides that have you tried exporting the retopo mesh to an obj file, then importing it into the paint room? I realise that you should be able to do both at the same time while in 3D Coat but you might be having memory issues. When yuo are doing the export to the paint room you have (I think) a pretty high res voxel sculpt, the retopo mesh and then you will be adding to that another copy of that mesh for the paint room.

I would export the mesh to an obj file, close 3D Coat, start it up again with a new document and use the file, import options to import your obj file to the paint room.

I hope that helps, let me know how you get on.

John.

[lowedennis]

Hi

Before I start, thats one sweet model man really cool. The polycount doesnt look tooo huge but you do have a very multi coloured mesh, which kind of makes me think your UV Map might need sorting out. I think your model might be too complex for the auto mapping feature.

Besides that have you tried exporting the retopo mesh to an obj file, then importing it into the paint room? I realise that you should be able to do both at the same time while in 3D Coat but you might be having memory issues. When yuo are doing the export to the paint room you have (I think) a pretty high res voxel sculpt, the retopo mesh and then you will be adding to that another copy of that mesh for the paint room.

I would export the mesh to an obj file, close 3D Coat, start it up again with a new document and use the file, import options to import your obj file to the paint room.

I hope that helps, let me know how you get on.

John.

Thanks John, I've been using a model from the net as a start point and adding the extras and re-jigging in the voxel room.

I started the painting via Microvertex (it went well) until I found some rogue areas that were too big on the texture size (no detail could be painted on those sections) so I thought I would dive into the Ptex side as it didn't need the dreaded UV map and all the troubles that come with it.

here is where the undercuts and real detail is on the model so I thought going the Ptex way would be appropriate, plus that I hadn't even tried that way before as I don't have much luck with the other alternatives without spilling blood.

[John]

Thanks John, I've been using a model from the net as a start point and adding the extras and re-jigging in the voxel room.

I started the painting via Microvertex (it went well) until I found some rogue areas that were too big on the texture size (no detail could be painted on those sections) so I thought I would dive into the Ptex side as it didn't need the dreaded UV map and all the troubles that come with it.

here is where the undercuts and real detail is on the model so I thought going the Ptex way would be appropriate, plus that I hadn't even tried that way before as I don't have much luck with the other alternatives without spilling blood.

The Per Pixel and Microvertex painting options are quite similar as far as I can tell. Except with the microvertex it subdivides the mesh to give better results in bump, displacement and normal maps. As far as I am aware a UVMap is required for both rooms, so you may have to venture into that. When you are in either room have a look at the UV Texture editor (on the View menu) if you click teh wireframe option you will get a good idea of what it looks like.

Ny suggestion would be to use the uvmapping tools in the UV Room to add a number of seams to your model (seperate it into a number of parts). When you define a region it will seperate itself into an island and give it a unique colour. Your mesh is covered in different colours at the moment meaning you probably have alot of very small islands. When its split into 4 or 5 islands click the unwrap button. This will arrange all the parts of your map into a nice map. On the UV Islands you will see a number of red and blue regions, you definately don't want the red ones (not sure about the very blue ones). Experiment with the mapping options (relax is a favourite of mine) to minimise the reds. The stronger the colour the worse the distortion.

You can add more seams and islands if you want but the general idea is to have as few seams as possible. Though judging by the mesh you might need a few more than normal to get the map flat.

Let me know if you have trouble

John

[digman]

Yes, ptex works very well in 3.2.08 beta. (my version: win32 non-cuda)

It should not take very long to merge into scene the quadrangulated model from the retopo room to the paint room. but somewhat longer if you increased the carcass level.

--------------------------------------------------

You might be doing some of these steps already.

The extra quadmesh you have is just left over from your first sphere, you can delete it from the retopo dialog box. When clearing a voxel in the voxel room it does not delete the quadrangulated mesh in the retopo room, Use the clear button (left menu) to do that in the retopo room.

I did get that multi-colored mesh to come up in my testing but not quite sure how I did it yet, Its not the normal look of a mesh in the retopo room and I don't think you uv mapped it which as you know is unnecessary for ptex.

I can take a look at the 3b file if you can upload it here if it not too big or a link where I can download it.

Really tight areas sometimes cause problems but can't tell just from the pictures.

[John]

Yes, ptex works very well in 3.2.08 beta. (my version: win32 non-cuda)

It should not take very long to merge into scene the quadrangulated model from the retopo room to the paint room. but somewhat longer if you increased the carcass level.

--------------------------------------------------

You might be doing some of these steps already.

The extra quadmesh you have is just left over from your first sphere, you can delete it from the retopo dialog box. When clearing a voxel in the voxel room it does not delete the quadrangulated mesh in the retopo room, Use the clear button (left menu)to that in the retopo room.

I did get that mulicolored mesh to come up in my testing but not quite sure how I did it yet, Its not the normal look of a mesh in the retopo room and I don't think you uv mapped it which as you know is unnecessary for ptex.

I can take a look at the 3b file if you can upload it here if it not too big or a link where I can download it.

Really tight areas sometimes cause problems but can't tell just from the pictures.

you really dont need a uvmap for the ptex room? well you learn something new every day

[digman]

ok, I think I know the cause of the multi-color mesh. You might not have deleted the original quadranqulated sphere mesh in the retopo room. I did a test which was not to delete the original quadrangulated mesh, then ran the quadranqulated feature again from the voxel room and vola I got a multi-colored mesh...

Could be reason that your ptex stops responding as you now have two seperate meshes from different models in the retopo room but still that is only a guess...

picture included.

John: yep it's a great feature of ptex and you can export the obj from the paint room and 3dcoat will create a uv map (square tiles) for it so you can use in your rendering program. sweet...

Edit: I did a test with two different quadrangulated meshes in the retopo room, well it wasn't pretty when I tried to merge into scene for ptex.

[lowedennis]

ok, I think I know the cause of the multi-color mesh. You might not have deleted the original quadranqulated sphere mesh in the retopo room. I did a test which was not to delete the original quadrangulated mesh, then ran the quadranqulated feature again from the voxel room and vola I got a multi-colored mesh...

Could be reason that your ptex stops responding as you now have two seperate meshes from different models in the retopo room but still that is only a guess...

John: yep it's a great feature of ptex and you can export the obj from the paint room and 3dcoat will create a uv map (square tiles) for it so you can use in your rendering program. sweet...

So what you're saying digman is that I should kill Quadmesh02?

and just leave Quadmesh01?

and kill using this button? which I have to hit 'Mark Seams' to make it visible?

I select Quadmesh02 and hit 'clear' and the quadmesh02 is still there staring at me! - I have to delete it from the retopo group window.

and I am left with the Quadmesh01 again

and I get the dialog that 'model is empty'

Sorry but I'm totally confused here

[digman]

Yesser, it can get confusing trying to type so you understand, the nature of communicating by written word, the man that can explain clearly in written languague is a rare sight, example all the written manuals that leave your head spinning. I will try again.

This is a way you can start off with a clean slate.

The easiest method if you have enough ram is to export the voxel model (from the vox tree) all 7 million tris as a obj or stl file. ( You should be fine as I see you have free 33,420 mb)

Close 3DCoat and then import the obj or stl model as a new merge into the voxel room. "Do not use the same 3d file you were using" You might have to resize on merging for voxels to get the resolution up to 7 million tris again.

Then just quadrangulate, In the retopo room, check the mesh and merge for ptex.

[lowedennis]

Yesser, it can get confusing trying to type so you understand, the nature of communicating by written word, the man that can explain clearly in written languague is a rare sight, example all the written manuals that leave your head spinning. I will try again.

This is a way you can start off with a clean slate.

The easiest method if you have enough ram is to export the voxel model (from the vox tree) all 7 million tris as a obj or stl file. ( You should be fine as I see you have free 33,420 mb)

Close 3DCoat and then import the obj or stl model as a new merge into the voxel room. "Do not use the same 3d file you were using" You might have to resize on merging for voxels to get the resolution up to 7 million tris again.

Then just quadrangulate, In the retopo room, check the mesh and merge for ptex.

I'll give that a try, I've sent you a PM as I'm uploading to a server I use for video, as soon as it's done (2 hours says my ftp client) I'll PM you with a link.

I have 12 GB ram on my system so I'm not thinking it's my memory yet, a mail from Andrew suggests it may be objects inside my mesh, I've had that before by importing obj files that are not completely clean and looking inside the voxels reveals all sorts of rats nests that when I delete them, they then affect the outside. That's another discussion I feel.

[digman]

Here is some info on merging for voxels your imported 7 million polygon file (obj or stl) that you created.

The picture has the details.

"a mail from Andrew suggests it may be objects inside my mesh"

Yes, Andrew is correct, as I was stating the same thing...

[lowedennis]

Here is some info on merging for voxels your imported 7 million polygon file (obj or stl) that you created.

The picture has the details.

"a mail from Andrew suggests it may be objects inside my mesh"

Yes, Andrew is correct, as I was stating the same thing...

I had to scale my 7 million obj at x2 to get near to my original and I'm now in the retopo after quadrangulation process, so far so good. It's looking good as there is only one Quadmesh1 in the retopo group box.

So now I'll just merge for Ptex using the defaults.

[lowedennis]

Well so far no luck as the program is not responding again, the trouble is probably in the mesh then, we should get someone to write a script that fills in any holes inside the mesh like 'cap holes in 3d Max.

I'll try pulling it in max to check it out - looks like another day ahead of fun......

[digman]

I will await your pm for the file...

edit:

I had to blast out the door. You can make a mesh closed upon import, check my last pic in the other post. It is in the merge dialog box.

[lowedennis]

I will await your pm for the file...

edit:

I had to blast out the door. You can make a mesh closed upon import, check my last pic in the other post. It is in the merge dialog box.

I'm having another try with the mesh closed, the link has been PM'd.

[3dCoatWannabe]

Thanks John, I've been using a model from the net as a start point and adding the extras and re-jigging in the voxel room.

If that's a free model from the net, I'd also love to be able to play with it!

[Ghostdog]

quadmesh1 and quadmesh2 is an almost daily thing for me and always caused by my experiments with taking a mesh from voxel to perpixel via auto quadrangulate, not being happy with the result and trying again, but forgetting to first delete via this process:

1) paint room, objects tab: Hit red X to delete everything. (i.e. do it once, return to objects tab, do it again)

2) retop room, delete layer. that will leave quadmesh1. create new layer, it will be called Retopgroup1. Click again on Quadmesh1. delete it.

You have now cleared from memory everything, BUT the voxel room information is INTACT. Now you can quadrangulate or retop room again.

i.e. the trick I use is the create the new un-needed layer in retop as that then allows me to sneakily delete quadmesh1

Sorry it's something I made-up but didn't even realise it was useful for others as silly as it might seem now.

[lowedennis]

If that's a free model from the net, I'd also love to be able to play with it!

His name is Sean Kennedy and you can download his model here:

http://www.planit3d.com/source/poser/sparky/sparky1.html

If used for commercial you have to ask him, if not please give him credit if you use for non profit.

[lowedennis]

quadmesh1 and quadmesh2 is an almost daily thing for me and always caused by my experiments with taking a mesh from voxel to perpixel via auto quadrangulate, not being happy with the result and trying again, but forgetting to first delete via this process:

1) paint room, objects tab: Hit red X to delete everything. (i.e. do it once, return to objects tab, do it again)

2) retop room, delete layer. that will leave quadmesh1. create new layer, it will be called Retopgroup1. Click again on Quadmesh1. delete it.

You have now cleared from memory everything, BUT the voxel room information is INTACT. Now you can quadrangulate or retop room again.

i.e. the trick I use is the create the new un-needed layer in retop as that then allows me to sneakily delete quadmesh1

Sorry it's something I made-up but didn't even realise it was useful for others as silly as it might seem now.

That is so important, thank you Ghostdog, thinking that once I had deleted the objects and materials in the paint room (layer0 seems to want to stay there also)and then seeing that Quadmesh1 in retopo would NEVER delete I thought it was obviously meant to be there otherwise the Universe would collapse!

[Ghostdog]

I really do hope it helps. Like I said I didn't even realise I'd found a 'trick' until replying

[lowedennis]

I really do hope it helps. Like I said I didn't even realise I'd found a 'trick' until replying

Well SUCCESS........

Here is the workflow I tried.

I remember in a previous problem I had with the 'Derelict' model (older post) that Andrew suggested that I 'clone and degrade' my original sculpt, then 'clone and degrade' the copy - hide the Original voxel sculpt and hide the first 'clone and degrade' process. So here is a workflow that did it for me.

Below is the voxtree: the red dots are from the original (at the top) and the green dot is another object in the scene that I hid as it is not required yet until I sort out my workflow. The top red dot is the original, second red dot down is the first 'clone and degrade, third red dot at the bottom is the 'clone and degrade from the one above.

After that I hide everything except the last 'clone and degrade' and applied 'smooth all' twice to get this

then with this layer selected I did 'Quadrangulate Object' and accepted the defaults.

After that had finished I end up in the retopo room here

digman suggested that I hit 'clear' to get rid of the UV that was produced as the mesh is only needed for Ptex (I think).

I had to click 'Mark Seams' to get the clear button to appear

I hit'Clear' and also 'Clear Seams' just to make sure.

Then *VERY IMPORTANT* - I don't want to use the clone and degrade and smoothed copy there before I 'merge for Ptex' so I go back to the Voxel room and hide the last cloned and smoothed copy and unhide my original voxel sculpt at the top of my previous list.

Go back to the Retopo room and select the 'RetopoGroup1' layer and then click 'Merge model into scene with Ptex' and accept the defaults.

The conversion took about 3 mins and finally ended up in the paint room -Yipeeee....

There some small artifacts but that's to be expected I suppose given the undercuts and general organic nature of the sculpt.

I'm off in the garden as I can now see the Sun coming out (or has it been out there all the time and I hadn't noticed)

[digman]

Alright success... I will looked it over and see if I can narrow down the process, wish me luck.

Also Lowe, for testing I just auto seams the quadranqulation for the uv map, which makes a rather messy uv map on this kind of model,but just to see how it worked out.

Merged into scene for normal map with no subdivision at the true polygon count of appox 36,000.

The result turned out better than I thought, Their are a few seam problems but on the most part not bad. unless you were zoomed in real close

I boosted the normal map depth to 200% in the paint room.

A real time render in the render room picture of the of a quick paint (baked shader and some painting) plus normal map. (not a voxel render)

Picture is titled after the artist (Lowedennis) who created this model in 3DCoat. (original model from the net was used as the base was free for non-commerical work.)

I had reduced the polycount down to 3.5 million, works a little faster on my machine for testing.

P.S. quadranqulation never makes a uv map. The multi-color mesh appears at times and I think I know why as stated in a preious post.

Edit: I enjoy working on stuff like this, yeah a gutton for punishment I know, but in the end I get to find out what does work, better ways of working, things to avoid, and it helps find some bugs too at times... Maybe one day I will make a tutorial...

[lowedennis]

You should make a tutorial digman as I think there will be a lot more of detailed scuplture work in the future and I think people will be more confident to undertake the projects if there is a definite guarenteed workflow, especially now I see the benefits of Ptex. I haven't begun to scrape the surface of what's ultimately possible yet but I can definitely see it's advantages from my small efforts.

BTW here is the latest paint work as it stands now.

[haikalle]

Excelent! That is the beauty of Ptex. Some parts with high detail, some parts with medium and low and it looks like a one piece. Is it picture of Jackie Chan

in materials windows?

[digman]

Great work! This will be something to see in its final image...

[lowedennis]

Excelent! That is the beauty of Ptex. Some parts with high detail, some parts with medium and low and it looks like a one piece. Is it picture of Jackie Chan

in materials windows?

It's John Hurt - I needed some reference for the 'Kane' sculpt from Alien.

[lowedennis]

Great work! This will be something to see in its final image...

I'm working on the lower section at the moment and I think I'll finish sculpting in 3D Max for the more precise engineering parts.

My computer is starting to slow down now that there are two voxel objects in the frame