Issues Baking a Shield in 3d Coat

[lionroot]

Hello everyone,

 

  I created a hi poly shield

 

 

and then I retopoed it in 3d Coat

 

 

and when I tried baking it.  But, I got this

 

 

I've been trying different configurations (retopoed parts of it again) and going over tutorials for about 2 days, but don't know what I"m doing wrong.  

 

Would someone enlighten me?

 

I use Bake w/Normal Map (per Pixel), and set the outer edge to 0.9.

 

Here's the 3b file with everything how I have it set up - https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23847052/Shield_For_Baking.3b

 

Thanks!

 

[Michaelgdrs]

I would start by adding more details to the problematic areas.

[digman]

3 areas:

Never have virtual symmetry enabled when baking... Saying this for safely sake... My own way, is to apply symmetry to the virtual symmetry to create real symmetry and then turn symmetry off for baking as it is not needed

 

In the retopo room check to make sure "Name Correspondence for Baking" is deselected under the bake menu. You do not need to use it in this case and both the retopo layer and voxel or surface mode layer need to have the same name for it to work when using the routine. When looking at your scene I found it selected so just check to be sure...

 

3rd... You are using a depth shader but still your model is only 21, 000 polygons in surface mode. You need real polygons to capture the details for baking not just a faux depth shader. I recommend when baking choose the regular PBR shader on the top row, far left.

 

Side note: You might have a few unwelded vertices or duplicated vertices in the imported mesh... I get a couple of artifacts when switching to voxel mode or resampling in surface mode.

 

Real voxel or polygon creation below"

 

Switch to the standard PBR shader, does not matter that the model appears rough.

Now switch to voxel mode by clicking on the "S" in the vox tree layer and in the input panel that comes up type in about 2.5 million or higher.The details will be captured in voxels.

You might want to run "Smooth All" once or twice once you are in voxel mode

Switch to the retopo room and bake away... Be sure though to delete the already baked model from the paint room and all unused layers before rebaking. The newest beta version warns you about this and will remove it for you but older versions, it is a user manual process.

 

You can in surface mode run the resample routine to create the real polygons too but I got a few more artifacts when I used it. That could be due to some unwelded vertices or duplicated vertices. I know how to fix the artifacts but that is not the main subject of this post.

 

Side Note 2: When to import for voxels or surface mode depends upon the model and will come through experience with 3DCoat. 

 

Attached images

model baked with the normal map in the paint room. You will see a white artifact in the normal map but I believe it due to the pole in that region and uv seam crossing the pole. 

Your amount of polygons in surface mode.

Edited December 23, 2015 by digman

[lionroot]

Oh man, thanks so much for your help digman.  

 

I'm jumping on this after the holidays.  

 

Thanks again!

[AbnRanger]

I personally HATE the Virtual Symmetry option and do not believe it should be on by default. And it should be moved to the Toolbar, so it's easily visible. This way you can quickly see if it is on or off, and change it accordingly, if desired. Why don't I like it? Cause it's fake symmetry and causes a lot of confusion to new users, who will naturally expect REAL symmetry...not a fake one. It makes more sense to leave it OFF, as the default.

 

I also think the default value of ZERO for mirror snapping is a major headache for new and experienced user, alike. It should be set to 20-30 as a default. Why? Cause who in the world would NOT want their vertices snapped/welded at the symmetry plane?

[AbnRanger]

...having the Mirror Snapping (should be "Welding" instead?) value at ZERO, for the default is like someone ordering steak at a fine restaurant, and having the waiter/waitress bring you an uncooked steak. When you ask why it wasn't cooked, they reply..."well, you never asked for it to be cooked."  

[lionroot]

Your help was really great!  Thanks! Digman and AbnRanger (RLTW).  

 

I retopoed some areas and added more details in the problem areas.  With the poles, are you saying that because 5 lines intersect in that area, then that's what causing the white artifacts / crackly lines?  This is what I'm getting.

 

 

Here's what my retopos look like 

 

 

 

Lastly, the sphere normal baking helped in some areas.  That is so cool.  Is this unique to 3d Coat?  And is am I supposed to use XNormal (I'm on a Mac).  There's a lot of people saying that's the goto for normal baking, but I don't really know objectively how to compare since I'm still learning.

 

 

Thanks!

[digman]

I uploaded a fixed file... 

First... The main problem is the construction of the model. You need some bevel edges. Normal maps do not like 90 degree edges. Can it be done yes but you will fight it as I did fixing the model by laying the uv seams out better for the polygon normals and splitting some elongated polygons... Having a extra polygon on those help soften the normals where some problems were occurring. 

 

I could have continued to layout the uv seams in other areas but since they had no problems I left them as is.

 

The very bottom indention of the shield really needs to be retopoed better but I left it has is but added some extra polygons plus moved a few vertices around. Fixed 99% of the problems there. I had a little normal map clean up but only a tiny bit. That cleanup can be done right in 3DC.

 

When having no bevel edges where the angle is 90 degrees between the polygons, you really have to think about your model polygon layout and where you place the uv seams when baking for a normal map.

 

I used the Blender normal map preset when I baked the normal map to the paint room. You can choose the normal preset you need under the Preferences menu and rebake again for your needs if necessary.

 

EDIT: I found one small spot on the inside of the side indentions that I overlooked running the final fix, I will re-upload the file...

Uploaded done...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kkdxo8ij6ip26t8/Shield_For_Bakingfix2.3b?dl=0

Edited January 1, 2016 by digman

[lionroot]

Awesome, thanks for the feedback again.  I understand now about the sharp edges.

 

What references would you recommend for optimizing meshes? / How did you learn this (trial and error?)  I'm trying to be self-taught, and being pointed in a direction would be great.

 

Thanks again for your help!

[Michaelgdrs]

David is an excellent tutor and one of my 3D Coat mentors.

 

I highly recommend him , you can learn a lot from him.

 

Check  the first comment on your thread , what am i writing there?

 

-->Posted 23 December 2015 - 11:54 AM

I would start by adding more details to the problematic areas.

 

You ended right there with Davids help (digman).

[digman]

Self Taught here as well, that is that the information I learned is from all the great information that abounds on the net from a A to Z about the art of 3D creation... My hat is off to all the authors who have posted solid good video tutorials and articles about 3D creation.

 

Sometimes it can be confusing and at times information can seem to contradict each other. 

 

 A few rules of thumb for optimizing meshes.

1. What is the end use of your Model as that will define how the polygon model is built.  Is it for a quality static or animation render, PC or Console game engine. Mobile or WebGL. In other words how many polygons plus vertex count (includes uv verts and hard edge split vertices) per model you got to work with in the creation of the model. 

2. Creation of good polygon edge loop flow ,holding edges and beveling where necessary.

3.When and how to use smoothing groups.(hard and soft edges). This is more important in a game engine as the GPU is rendering in realtime the vertex count of the polygon vertices , additional uv vertices and hard edge split vertices.

4.Good uv seam layout for Normal and Displacement maps. 

 

Keep those 4 rules in your mind as you read and watch tutorials and things will become clearer faster... Whatever is not clear in your mind in the above material, research those areas and you will be on your way to optimized meshes. 

 

Currently, I am researching, hard edges and beveling for game models, where to create your uv seams to maximize the vertex count. This article might seem to contradict the beveling information I gave you but not really as this is for a game model. He has two smoothing groups,soft for 3 edges and one hard edge. Simple model but I find that is always best to get the principle down. I am sharing the link simply as a way of how I research information I need. I cross check it with other articles and if they give the same information, then normally that is good information.

 

Ths KISS saying goes here, start simple, work up to complex

 

http://tech-artists.org/wiki/Beveling

Edited January 4, 2016 by digman

[lionroot]

Thanks for the advice.  

 

I guess the best I can do, is just keep working on it daily, doing studies and posting for feedback.  

 

Thanks again!